Your views on green anarchy?

[wokofshame]

well it's cool to read other peeps opinions, personally here i just say i'm an anarchist because i believe none of what i'm told and only half of what i see, it's easy to get way too deep into labels, theory books from the library, and philosophies. or even thinking too much (is that possible? well maybe if it prevents you from just havin fun)
what i'm trying to say is, do or support something because you believe in it, being an anarchist to me means thinking for yourself and not accepting all the tenets of any philosophy, pick and choose what you think is right and leave the kooky pieces

edit: i guess what i mean is back years ago i read a few books by bookchin and some other dudes and thought half of it was crap. anarchy means don't go with the crowd, write your own book etcectea

 

[wartomods]

This is my view on green anarchy

i see it but it is wrong


btw i am all pro civilazation... i have no believe in any form of anarchism, i am more a socialist guy...

 

[veggieguy12]

btw i am all pro civilazation... i have no believe in any form of anarchism, i am more a socialist guy...

Socialism is great for civilization, but ultimately it will only have us more fairly and equitably destroying the planet for our own benefit rather than for the boss's benefit!

I'd rather we didn't destroy the earth... and honestly I don't care what it takes for that, whether it's a matriarchal society or a patriarchal society, whether it's egalitarian and uses consensus or a lifetime monarch or a monthly-rotating chief, whether we're a tea society or a coffee society, whatever. I don't see it being very purposeful that we eliminate class distinctions and racism and sexism only to wake up to the fact that our water is poisonous for all plants/animals to drink or live in, our air is toxic, our land base is desertified, and the necessary biodiversity of the planet has been fatally reduced to only what we want to eat and the last few things we didn't kill off.

Y'know, there are a wide variety of ways that people live without destroying the planet, but civilization - capitalist, socialist, or whatever - ain't one of 'em, obviously.

 

[wartomods]

neither anarchism, well anarchism would lead to even a wasteful management of resources

 

[Tyler]

What kind of resources would be wasted? "A resource is any physical or virtual entity of limited availability, or anything used to help one earn a living. Natural resources are derived from the environment. Human beings are also considered to be resources because they have the ability to change raw materials into valuable resources" (wikipedia). So resources, in my opinion, are stolen from the earth, water, and populations only to be manipulated, sold, and used up for the greater good of civilization. And it's all being done by the working man/woman. Without civilization we don't need these resources, so waste away!
Anarchy involves using resources that are already given to us. The only resources we really need are land, air, water, and food. Food should come from the land, not the store. Tap water is a good recourse given to us by civilization because it's so convenient and "clean" (no time for conspiracies right now). But how did this water get so dirty in the first place? Civilization. Pollution. I wonder if we'll be paying to have clean air eventually or is that already happening?

 

[veggieguy12]

...I wonder if we'll be paying to have clean air eventually or is that already happening?

About ten years ago I heard about street vendors in Mexico City (a heavily polluted, smoggy valley) selling breaths of clean air (an oxygen/nitrogen mix) to pedestrians.
I couldn't, however, find any source material on this just now.

 

[hassysmacker]

green anarchy: i'm all for it.

in the anti-civ sense. i'm anti-cities/civilization.

however i'm not against small scale horticultural societies.

i'm not a primitivist. i think hunter/gatherer tribes are great, but are not the only way to go.

personally i'm most interested in permaculture (wiki it) based societies of humans being fully integrated into their bioregions.

although i completely believe that due to basic laws of ecology such as carrying capacity, a lot of people are going to die before humans ever reach "sustainability". yup. i said it!

 

[hassysmacker]

read "endgame" by derrick jensen. i really sort of insist.

endgamethebook.org

 

[finn]

I wonder if we'll be paying to have clean air eventually or is that already happening?

It's already happening in Asia, except you're technically not paying for the air, you are paying for the filters to clean it. See all those pictures of people wearing what seem to be medical masks? And the people who have more money have the filters in their cars so they don't have to breathe in what they put out into the air. (Okay, most of that is actually from the coal power plants, and not the cars.)

 

[Angela]

read "endgame" by derrick jensen. i really sort of insist.

endgamethebook.org

Is there any chance that we could get you to scan and upload this? I went out looking for it awhile back on the internet and couldn't find the entire text. Anyone?

 

[veggieguy12]

Found this lil' one, w/ Jensen & Zerzan, Against Civilization, in PDF format.

I can send the Endgame book(s) to people really genuinely interested in reading it, please PM me.
Just know that it is a bit big. Both volumes. A lot to read. A lot to scan.

Alternatively, you could just hear his talks/Q&As from when he was touring for the Endgame release.
I've made a 2-CD version (with many track breaks) of this talk (29 March 2006 in Santa Cruz), or you can download it as two lengthy single MP3s.

Can send those discs, too. Easier, quicker to get through than the books, and cheaper than mailing the book(s). Also maybe more acceptable to others you share with...

 

[wartomods]

horticultural societies would require more land of the planet

 

[hassysmacker]

i have two audio files of D.Jensen i could put on the downloads section, but I have no idea how to upload them.

angela: sorry, there is no way in the world i'm going to scan those books. between both volumes, its like 1000 pages!!!!!! i would recommend you jump on veggieguys offer to mail some stuff or listen to his audio.

wartomods: horticultural societies would require more land of the planet...? well, i am of the notion that we have far surpassed the sustainable carrying capacity of the planet for human population. and to reapproach "sustainability" (what a fucking ugly watered down word these days!), there will need to, at some point in the future, be far less humans on the planet. perhaps billions less.

and that being said...permacultural horticultural methods, have actually been estimated to produce as much, if not more calories than standard industrial monocropped agricultural farm. in a self-maintaining way that doesn't require the importation of fertility-enhnacing resources!

 

[hassysmacker]

a great short documentary on the topic:

"A Farm for the Future"

A Farm for the Future

From the synopsis on the website:
"the BBC will be broadcasting an excellent peak oil documentary; it focuses on farming. Presenter and co-producer Rebecca Hosking explores the importance of oil in farming and the potential impact of peak oil. The film has a passionate narrative centred on Rebecca’s small family farm in South West England; can she make her farm fit for the future?

The subject mater is top notch. Colin Campbell and Richard Heinberg contribute, permaculture, forest gardens, gardening vs farming, biofuels, biodiversity, industrial farming and no-till farming are all covered. It seems certain that present methods cannot go on feeding Britain as they are highly dependent on fossil-fuel. The film concentrates on the necessity to find a new way to feed the nation.

Above all, the presentation comes from the heart. It is sure to capture the imagination of many people who, not least due to the deepening recession, are primed for new ideas like never before."

 

[hassysmacker]

i figured it out! there is now a two part speech by Derrick Jensen in the downloads section. You just need unzipping software. winzip, winrar, whatever mac/linux alternatives there are, etc.

 

[Linda/Ziggy]

Hey all,
Just wanted to add some bits here.

Well I am an Anarcho/autonomist (can't spell it!)
And I live a pretty 'Green' life and also into learning foraging and survival skills
and yeah vegan most of the time.

But I don't call myself a Green Anarchist,
That is largely due to the fact that I was supporting and active in the Green Anarchist community while I was living in the UK, and the British Green Anarchist magazine
was defending a know rapist in the Green Anarchist community.
I was also sick dealing with spoilt, arrogant priviledged white middle class people,
telling everyone else how to live.

I was raised working class, been poor most of my life.

I think there are some good & bad ideas in primitivism.
But I suppose you can describe primitivist in many ways.

I also think it is extremely dangerous to romanticize
tribal/primitive culture and to think that it is
egalitarian or to think that non industrailized people are in 'tune with nature'.
There is still violence/war/slavery and females and children are still abused, raped,
etc in many of those cultural/tribal situations.
It was happening in North America long before the Europeans came here.
Not on such an industrial or genocidal scale, but it was still happening.

Also when many civilizations /systems collapse Mafia/Ganga and new thugs
take over.
So I think the best thing to do is to prepare and to know how
to fight back and to create safe spaces, sort of like the peace
communities in Colombia who are saying no to the government,
leftist armys, state army and drug cartels.

On the same note
Sorry but...................
I've been active in the Anarcho & Punk & alternative community for about 30 years and
you wouldn't believe some of the bullshit & abuse I have come across.
So I really despair sometimes about the future if we can't even get it right now.

What I try to do in my life is to create the world and life that I want to live.
The 'Revolution' is now, it's how you live your life and create change.

 

[hassysmacker]

I would like to contribute a good zine to this whole topic called "Post Civ"

Post Civ: A Deeper Exploration

by Strangers in a Tangled WIlderness


"Post-Civilization

To be remarkably brief, Post-Civilization is a political and social theory that is built from the following:

1 – This civilization is, from its foundation, unsustainable. It
probably cannot be salvaged, and, what’s more, it would be
undesirable to do so.
2 – It is neither possible, nor desirable, to return to a pre-
civilized state of being.
3 – It is therefore desirable to imagine and enact a post-
civilized culture.

For others, it might be simplest to understand that we are green anarchists who do not outright reject technology or mediation, who do not fetishize pre-civilized methods of survival.

For those whom none of the above made any sense, let me say it this way: we believe in radical sustainability - we want to create a society that can actually continue. And we want that society to be egalitarian, that is, a society of equals. We don’t believe in the myth that this civilization represents the pinnacle of human achievement, nor do we believe in the myth that pinnacle of human culture was when we were nomadic hunter-gatherers. We believe that the future can be awesome, if we make it awesome.
"

postcivilized.net

 

[Angela]

angela: sorry, there is no way in the world i'm going to scan those books. between both volumes, its like 1000 pages!!!!!! i would recommend you jump on veggieguys offer to mail some stuff or listen to his audio.

Wow, I had no idea that it was that large but that explains why nobody else has already uploaded it anywhere on the internet.

 

[hassysmacker]

yah its pretty long. but totally recommended.

 

[veggieguy12]

Here's some other stuff from the author of Endgame:
2x 30min: TUC Radio: Bringing Down Civilization
26min. interview: Ecoshock Features: Kick It Over
1hr interview: Elephant Talk: Derrick Jensen
1hr 40min, from 2005: Healing the Earth: Civilization's Endgame, Strategies, and Tactics
Endgame official site audio offerings
mixed media feat. Jensen
interview with George Draffan, a Jensen compatriot: Healing the Earth: Welcome to the Machine
a call to action, audio collage feat. John Trudell & Richard Heinberg & Jensen & others:
Systemic Failures: Bone Days