Guns?

[veggieguy12]

Debated on putting this in the Anarchism/Politics section; basically, I am wanting to hear from anyone with experience shooting or maintaining firearms, and I'd like to know if anyone owns a gun currently and/or travels/traveled with a gun - concealed or not, licensed or not.

And why is it that so few anarchists (and, more broadly, Leftists) are ready to operate firearms and have actually acquired weapons? Why is it always the Right-wing, flag-waving, God-fearing conservative Christians who stockpile all the guns manufactured in any given year?

Ages ago I read somewhere a quote from President Lyndon Johnson (1963-'68), something to the effect of, "We're watching all the New Left, but they'll never really rise up. It's the Right-wing we need to be concerned about; they're the ones with all the guns." (I tried Google to come up with an actual quote, but I failed!)

 

[wartomods]

Dont be worried what concerns to me i can shoot a penny 25 yards away with a riffle, ahahah.

 

[Beegod Santana]

Never met anyone who traveled with a gun, but when we got pulled off in beaumont ca recenty, the bulls told us the last guy they pulled off had a loaded shotgun with him. I think anarchists don't carry guns in general because a lot of em tend to be all about peace and the rest perfer to talk loud and hardly act. When push comes to shove, I doubt most of these hardcore kids would really have the balls to gun down a cop.

 

[finn]

Most anarchists/left wingers come from homes where there aren't any firearms, so they're never comfortable with them. I know how to use them, I trained with them when I thought I might do some wildlife research and they required you to be proficient with handguns to apply. I don't know anyone who travels with a gun, I'd think it'd be too much of a legal and financial liability, but on the other hand, anyone who would do that would probably keep it a secret. Also, nowadays it seems that everyone is stockpiling guns and ammo, not only conservative christian types.

 

[Geoff]

i know how to use most guns. rifles, shotguns, handguns, even shot an assault rifle on a few occasions, but i imagine that has something to do with how i was brought up in an environment where it was a completely normal thing to go to the shooting range on the weekends. I'm glad for it all too. I'm glad that I know that if it comes to it someday, I know how to defend myself militarily at least to some degree.

 

[veggieguy12]

Well someone would have to be crazy to talk about being a concealed firearm holder cause that defeats the whole purpose of it.

I don't think so.
Part of the purpose is to have a comparable weapon on you at all times; since nobody can conceal an AK-47, your Glock is good enough tucked under your jacket, whether or not you're known to have it.
It's not just about pretending that you're unarmed, or providing a surprise.

The author of several handgun books (and champion-shooter and former cop) is well-known and easily recognizable, but of course he carries a pistol or two in the only way you can legally carry one as a civilian: concealed. But my point is that he doesn't go to lengths to obscure his identity in photos/publications.

Plus, if someone on here simply said she had something, that would probably carry more weight in this online 'community' than whether she did have one or not, as people might be a lil' more cautious and guarded around her, not try to start shit.

I think that is a big misconception I know people with firearm (rifle, handgun, assault) and they are not anarchists, Leftists or Right-wing, flag-wavers...

The exception proves the rule, dude.
I know you're not from the South, but most drivers who have picked me up while hitchhiking have been conservative, and most of those conservatives are religious (something made apparent by their car, the stickers on it or contents in it, or things they say). And when I started getting interested in guns (and drugs) a few months back, I started talking to these drivers about which of these they might know about.
Not all the conservatives were gun-owners (or they didn't admit to it), but all the gun-owners were conservatives. And this is in the NW, the Midwest, and the Eastern USA.

Besides, everyone has some politics; are you saying that the people you're thinking of have no opinion on abortion, teaching religion in schools, capitalism vs socialism, the 2000 election, taxes, nuclear power, govt. regulation of industry, the death penalty, the wars in the Middle East, Israel/Palestine, etc.?
Pick a debatable issue, doesn't matter - I'd be surprised if your friends don't have some position and are totally apathetic about every topic. How they feel about these things defines whether they lean Left, Right, whatever.

 

[Shoestring]

I carried a small .22 for about 17 years. I would have it taped to the very bottom of my duffel bag in case the police ever went through my things, it would have a better chance at staying taped to the bottom, being that when the cops search your bags, they usually tump the bag over and hold it upside-down and let the things fall out, but if you have whatever it is you need concealed taped to the bottom, it stays there! But I never had my bag searched while I had my weapon, thank God!!! I went to jail many times, but my bags were just placed in storage right away, thank God again!!! lol! lol!
I went to jail so many countless times over the past 19 years and never once ever had it found!!! lol!
When I got in camp or on a train, I'd pull it out once we got far enough out of the yards to do so. When I ran the High~Line quite often back in the late 1980's and early 1990's, I carried it right in the small of my back at belt-line height or in my right boot.

While in the Army, we used M-16 (A-1's) and M-16 (A-2's). They're both almost exactly the same except for the stocks. One has small air-holes in the stock, and the other does not. Military weapons shoot far different than rifles! We all had to learn over how to shoot too!!! And with my left arm to boot! (Completely different from shooting with your right side)!!! Once you enter the military, you right away find out which eye is your "main" eye! Everybody has a trained eye and it differs from person to person and it matters not whether you're right or left handed either! (This is what makes it so damn hard if you're right-handed and left-eyed)!!! You have always used a gun by shooting it with your right side, then you have to learn all over again to shoot with your left side!!! lol!!!

 

[finn]

...but of course he carries a pistol or two in the only way you can legally carry one as a civilian: concealed.

A few states actually allow open carry of firearms, like Virginia, without needing any kind of carry permit. Also, I'm not really fazed by guns all that much, just as most people who don't have pocketknives aren't really frightened by people who do have knives on them, just as long as those things aren't pointed at me.

I don't really get the nature of this post either. Most of us are from the US, so we tend to have more experience with firearms as a whole.

 

[dirty_rotten_squatter]

Well I have looked into it and there are only four states that dont allow you to carry guns with or without permit. washington dc, wisconsin, illinois and , im not too sure about the last one though. and traveling with guns its illegal to carry across state lines, but were not exactly law abiding citizens anyway haha. BIG fines and possibly jail time if you are caught. I've done alot of research on this though and am honestly thinking about it. No shotgun or anything like that a nine most likely or even a 22. If you have the right permits and the right license and you carry, as long as it is not ready for immediate use, saftey on bullet not in the chamber if the officer knows his shit, which most of the time they really dont, you shouldnt get hassled with. Thats a little of what I know.

 

[veggieguy12]

A few states actually allow open carry of firearms, like Virginia, without needing any kind of carry permit.

I dunno about VA, but I know Vermont has no "gun control" laws (and I thought it was the only state without any, or perhaps it just has less than any other state).
Still - even in Vermont, I'll bet - you can't walk into a grocery store carrying a rifle, not even a shotgun 'broken' over your shoulder, even if the place doesn't have a notice banning weapons.
I guess you could do it, but I'm sure the cops would be called, and you'd have some kind of charge or at least a Disturbing-The-Peace ticket.
I believe the typical law for most places is something about "brandishing weapons for intimidation". (I'd guess this is part of the reason for gun racks, so they're not concealed but also not sitting on the seat where could be used against Johnny Law.)

Also just what are you trying to get at with this post?

I don't really get the nature of this post either.

I'm very surprised that you guys are confused by this, it's not complicated and you're not stupid fellas.
Am I trying to see if someone will give me a gun? Do I want to know who's carrying on their travels, so I can steer clear of them or rob them as they sleep? No.
In my previous post, I mentioned getting interested in guns of late; specifically (I guess), toward developing armed response to whatever communities don't like.
Because I don't own any guns, I can't shoot at most ranges (bring-your-own places); I did shoot a couple pistols at a range in NorCal which offered borrower guns for use there.

And getting into guns at this point seems like learning to swim in the deep end of the pool. I'm having to go through a lot of jargon and abbreviations and then figure out what they mean, there doesn't seem to be too much created for beginners.

Whats your takes on the firearms issue in this country?

I think that the Right talks about "defending the country" but does nothing when Cheney & Bush & that whole cabal violate the Constitution (supposedly sacred to the patriots) and infringe upon American rights, not to mention violating international law. The gun owners of the Right seem pretty accepting of oppression when the perpetrators are Americans.

On the other hand is the Left, and I'll include anarchists in this group too, which talks much about "Revolution", but also does nothing.
So I've been looking at guns lately, so I too can do nothing but complain, of course.

As you said, people carry but don't practice, and can lose their gun to the attacker. Or, there are those stats which say the house gun is more likely to be used against a family member than an intruder. And just this gun mag I was reading had a few cases about some cop nearly shooting his elderly mom, or some guy killing a Japanese exchange student who entered the wrong house when looking for a party. Guns are easily-available, dangerous, and can quickly create a lot of injury (or death).

I think there are probably enough weapons that people could fight back, house-to-house against a military, or defend themselves against attackers/intruders. I'm pretty sure our "freedom" wouldn't decrease, nor would our oppression increase, if these factories closed down.

I guess I don't believe in restricting gun ownership, but I don't know of any real justification for keeping the factories running, pumping out more and more guns. Because the violent, criminal underclass is growing, and arming? Because something like a Zapatista army is secretly being formed here in the US? Because there are a handful of wealthy dudes with tiny dicks who really need to gather 400 guns of every kind?

 

[Shoestring]

I know that in Texas, you used to be able to carry your firearm on your person visible to others.......(Not sure about now though).

Me to as far as someone not pointing a knife at me or threatening me with one, I never cared about having a knife for protection. (I carried one for cutting rope, strings, straps, etc, etc, etc)............
I mainly carried my .22 because I rode the High~Line a lot back when certain people were doing a lot of things that should have not been going on! (Pulling peoples pants down to their ankles then their coats/shirts over their heads and pushing them off boxcars and grainers)! This way when they hit the ground, they had less of a chance of being able to save themselves! (It indeed was dangerous to be riding that High-Line back between 1990 through about 1993 with somebody you'd never rode with before or seen before!!!! It truely was dangerous, but some of us prevailed and kept each others backs watched vigorously! (I mean we watched each others backs like a hawk)!!! You had to ride with someone else that you knew and could trust, and sometimes even then, they were known to bite you in the ass! I felt a lot better carrying my .22 on me back then, I don't care what anybody else says about it!
Just ask "IBRRHOBO" what I'm talking about here! He rode this route then as well, and it made a man feel a lot more confident in knowing that he could protect himself should've something ever have went down!!!!
(Like in an earlier post, your knife can easily be taken from you, then used back on you, especially if you'd been drinking)! With a firearm, you just shoot! (So what if you don't hit someone, they then sure knew you were not going to take shit from anybody)!!!
I never once had to use mine though, thank God!


(This was the .22 that I owned for so long).........http://squattheplanet.com//files/albums/thumbs/1/abf075457e675c9fbd0a1436793bbe92_1641.jpg

Well I have looked into it and there are only four states that dont allow you to carry guns with or without permit. washington dc, wisconsin, illinois and , im not too sure about the last one though. and traveling with guns its illegal to carry across state lines, but were not exactly law abiding citizens anyway haha. BIG fines and possibly jail time if you are caught. I've done alot of research on this though and am honestly thinking about it. No shotgun or anything like that a nine most likely or even a 22. If you have the right permits and the right license and you carry, as long as it is not ready for immediate use, saftey on bullet not in the chamber if the officer knows his shit, which most of the time they really dont, you shouldnt get hassled with. Thats a little of what I know.

 

[veggieguy12]

Well I have looked into it and there are only four states that dont allow you to carry guns with or without permit. washington dc, wisconsin, illinois and , im not too sure about the last one though.

I think the Supreme Court of the US has ruled that no state or city can completely ban guns. So I don't think it's exactly accurate to say that Illinois and Wisconsin don't allow with or without a permit.

traveling with guns its illegal to carry across state lines, but were not exactly law abiding citizens anyway haha. BIG fines and possibly jail time if you are caught.

That's not totally true. I'm no expert, just learning a bit, but I believe that a Florida CWP/CCW (Concealed Weapons Permit) is accepted by many states, and a Utah license is accepted by most of the other states which FL's doesn't cover. Between the two permits, you are legal for concealed carry in some 45 states, maybe more.
The most restrictive states are Massachusetts, California, and New York. In addition to the city of Washington DC, I believe New York City and San Francisco also have some regulations and special permits are needed just for those cities.

 

[Shoestring]

I never place myself in an area where I can get jumped by somebody with a knife or mace. I always am far from walls, alleys, corners, etc...(for somebody to come up on me with a knife or mace, I'll see them before they get close enough to be within range of their knife or mace. This is why for me a firearm is better. I can see a browl errupting from far enough away to where I can draw down if need be, like from the other end of a boxcar or the other side of camp, I never place myself close enough to another persons range period! (This has always been the way I traveled)! Even when here at the homebase, if I'm walking downtown or in the parking-lot of say Wal*Mart, etc, ....I keep myself even here, far enough away from all peoples range..........I'm this way by nature and it's most likely why I survived safely the entire time I was out riding hard-core 24/7/365 for over 19 years!

 

[Shoestring]

I also agree with "Widerstand" in what he's also saying. Most people who would have a firearm place themselves too close to others while in an argument, browl, fight, scuffle, spat, etc, etc, etc......(Whatever type of dissagreement they may have, they are always way too damn close to their enemy when the shit hits-the-fan to successfully draw on them if they ever needed to)!!!.....They get sprayed with mace or stuck with a blade and then it's too late, they most likely then will have their firearm taken from them and used on them!!!
ALWAYS KEEP YOUR DISTANCE FROM ANYONE YOU MAY NOT FULLY TRUST!!! Give yourself enough reaction-time/reaction-space to keep yourself safe! (You are the main one that you have to be looking out for if your alone)! Think smart at all times!

 

[veggieguy12]

Why are you being cryptic about it... If you want a gun and you want to do it the legal way you need to buy from a gun dealer or if it is from a private party you need a gun dealer to broker the deal.

Dude, I'm NOT being cryptic about anything. I'm not suggesting anything, I'm saying it or I'm not, and since I'm not saying it, don't see it there.
I am interested in potentially having a gun, but I can't train with something 'cos most ranges require you to bring your own, and I don't want to buy one then train and find out that I don't much like it. Also: guns are fucking pricey! $600 for the cheaper stuff, new.
Also, in FL (for one state) you don't need a dealer to broker anything between individuals. A gun owner can sell to anyone else, with no ID or background checks or anything. Yeehaw.

Any idea as to what your looking to buy? and would you be wanting to travel with it?

All I know at this point is that my first (perhaps only) gun would be a small, concealable handgun. Definitely semi-auto, not a revolver, and probably something 9mm.
The Beretta Px4 Storm and the Glock-19 (or Glock30SF for .45 caliber) seem to be the leading candidates at this point, for functional reasons as well as price concerns. The Glock 26 is super-tiny, which I like, but I haven't held one to see if my hands can actually fit on it.

As for a gun being a good way of defending ones self... I think it is only good if you get lots of trigger time... I can pull one of my knives out or mace in less then a second and start to close the distance between myself and someone else pretty fast (20 foot or less)...

Yeah, and how often do you really want to kill someone for whatever they've done wrong?

 

[stove]

While living in VT, I saw plenty of people carry their rifle or shotgun into the co-op in downtown Burlington if they were picking up some food before heading out to the backcountry; hell of a lot safer than leaving it the car/truck! It didn't cause a panic.

As to the issue of "all gun owners are right wing conservatives,"...I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to say you're a fucking idiot. I don't normally insult those I've not met, but that's bullshit. I carry an SAS Paratrooper survival shotgun/rifle combo when I head out into the northern Maine backcountry, loaded with .22 mags and .410 slugs. Slugs are for the bears (no grizzlies out there),mags are for anytthing else. I don't carry it while travelling because of the obvious legal issues, and the not so obvious but more dangerous aspects of carrying a firearm. Why is it that everyone thinks only right-wing neocons have all the guns? Well, let them think that. Let's see what happens when they try to pull weapons away from my Lib friends, and they get a glock 27 or kimber .357 stuffed in their face.

As Shoestring and Wider have mentioned, there are FAR more effective weapons than firearms. Rifles are great if you need to kill something far away, but suck to carry and conceal.

Shotguns are slow and close-range. Also difficult to conceal, and you don't get many chances.

Pistols are short-range and concealable, but have you ever had to actually draw on a living animal (much less a person) in self defense? I haven't, and I'm pretty sure I would be scared enough to screw up somehow. I've trained with the M16-a1 and Galil (sp?), and they're hard enough to work when you're tired, sore, scared and adrenaline is pumping.

The one thing I took away from both my mentor and basic is this: If you draw a weapon on someone (gun or otherwise), you MUST be ready to use it. Personally, I'm not that into killing people, and that's why I don't carry a gun. I carry a knife, mostly for whittling and cutting food. If I got into a true down-and-dirty, kill-or-be-killed fight, I'd rather have my bandanna or slugshot over almost any weapon anyways.


Just my thoughts...

 

[veggieguy12]

While living in VT, I saw plenty of people carry their rifle or shotgun into the co-op in downtown Burlington if they were picking up some food before heading out to the backcountry; hell of a lot safer than leaving it the car/truck! It didn't cause a panic.

Okay, I stand corrected. But you've been in VT and I've only read about it.

As to the issue of "all gun owners are right wing conservatives,"...I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to say you're a fucking idiot.

Okay, guess I'm an idiot, or a fucking idiot at that. Wish I'd actually said what you quoted, since I'm judged for it.
And I had such a respect for you, too... Ah, fuck it; all things end!

 

[Bendixontherails]

since nobody can conceal an AK-47,

Ah, but you can!

the AK is a HIGHLY versatile weapon. accurate as a rifle, yet with that beautiful 'spray & pray' option. with a pistol grip, shorty barrel, patrol sling, and a ten shot clip instead of the usual 45 round banana clip, they take up less space than you'd think. You can hang it under your arm and it just barely touches the belt!

 

[Shoestring]

This is a beautiful piece of weaponry here!!!

Ah, but you can!

the AK is a HIGHLY versatile weapon. accurate as a rifle, yet with that beautiful 'spray & pray' option. with a pistol grip, shorty barrel, patrol sling, and a ten shot clip instead of the usual 45 round banana clip, they take up less space than you'd think. You can hang it under your arm and it just barely touches the belt!

 

[bote]

im not comfortable with the legal situation surrounding firearms. I think they shouldnt be so readily available to people, and also, they shouldnt be an acceptable part of society.

that said, they are fun to shoot and i dont really have a problem with people (friends) owning them. SOunds like a contradiction, but like most things, its the industry i have a problem with rather than the thing itself. Like Walmart has decent prices and selection, I just dont think there should be so fucking many of them.
Way too easy to die or kill with those things and realistically, they are a toy that you will probably never need.
More people (myself included) have friends who have been shot and killed, than there are people out there who were in a situation where having a gun made a positive difference.