Guns?

[Angela]

I think there's quite a few reasons that guns are just not a good idea for traveling for most folks and most of them have already been mentioned in here so I won't repeat them. I've got uncles that are able to make their own rifles from scratch and my family had guns when I was growing up and we all learned how to shoot going out target practicing so I'm comfortable with them, just not for traveling. I definitely don't think all gun owners are right wing conservatives, they just tend to be the most vocal gun advocates, probably making up a disproportionate percentage of the NRA's membership.
Veggieguy, you mentioned that there's not much geared toward beginners. Actually there are quite a few gun clubs and other organizations that offer introductory courses if your interested in learning more about the basics. Most states require that you've taken one of these courses to get a permit for some types of guns or concealed permits.

 

[L.C.]

I disagree with traveling and guns. when i was in ashland:soldier: i got into a fight,later the guy i fought got butt hurt and returned with a sks [civilian ak47].thankfully i had a little help and was able to get the gun away from him.traveling booze fighting guns dont mix!

 

[mike]

Not to be a pain in the ass but a sks is not a "civilain ak47". (firearms enthusiast ,NRA member and (gadsden) flag waiver here).

 

[Cardboard]

Wow, I'm not going to read through all of this crap, so I'm sorry if I repeat anything that has already been said.
I was raised around guns, by right wing conservatives. I am not political myself, I am an anarchist, and for the most part a pacifist.
That being said, I have owned several guns, both legal, and illegal (unregistered, no serial numbers...).
I'm not going to say how many I own now, definitely not an arsenal by any means, but more than one, less than 100. They are in several different states, in safe keeping awaiting my request to be armed. I rarely, I mean, hardly ever, travel with a gun, and when I do, it is a quick trip, and the gun is out of my hands as soon as I have a chance. I don't like the idea of someone stealing my weapons, or the possibility of them being turned around on me.
I think it really takes a lot to have a firearm, and know the power that you are harnessing. I have never had to shoot anyone. I have been in situations that most people would have ended differently. I have been robbed at knife point, while carrying a loaded pistol in the back of my pants. I gave them my wallet.
If they were going to kill me, or kill or rape a companion, they would not have been so lucky. I would shoot to kill, slowly.
It's been nice to have a gun when someone's animal is hurt beyond help, I have put down several dogs in situations that required it.
I guess if you are looking for more opinion from an anarchist/pacifist (rather than right wing/ southerner/ whatever...) you should PM me, or better yet, e-mail me off site (you should have my e-mail already).
I would be willing to talk at lengths about this, and even take you shooting or whatever you want.

 

[veggieguy12]

Veggieguy, you mentioned that there's not much geared toward beginners. Actually there are quite a few gun clubs and other organizations that offer introductory courses if your interested in learning more about the basics. Most states require that you've taken one of these courses to get a permit for some types of guns or concealed permits.

Right you are!
The intro course is what allows one to apply for a Concealed-Carry Weapon permit in FL; between the course fees and state applications and fingerprinting and all that, it costs $175.
I guess when I mentioned 'not much for beginners', I was referring to what I could find at a bookstore/library/online that really laid out details without so much jargon and stuff familiar to people who've had more time around guns.

I'll probably take that course next visit to FL.

 

[finn]

If you want the very very basics, you can go to MD Firearms Safety Training and give them crap info for the test- it just goes over the "how not to kill yourself with your gun." I have nothing against carrying while traveling, I just wouldn't do it unless I felt the danger was there. I'm more about knives. There are cheap options for handguns if you don't mind using outdated designs, blackpowder revolvers are not considered to be firearms (but they are considered "dangerous weapons") in most states, but they require that the hammer be cocked back before you can pull on the trigger, meaning firing and reloading is pretty slow. Most indoor ranges don't allow black powder because of the smoke generated. Other than that, good luck in finding a reasonably priced range that rents out firearms...

Have you tried out shotgun ranges? They are pretty cheap comparatively speaking, usually you can rent a gun, and you get pretty good when your targets are basically flying frisbees made of clay.

 

[IBRRHOBO]

Well'p, Shoestring cited me here so I guess I'd better put my two cents in. The early 90's were a REAL fucking violent time on the trax. Blood in and blood out. Everyone who was a serious rider packed. I was happy with my .45 ACP. Norinco has a spin off, but I swear by Colt. If you have a handgun let's not bullshit around, you have it to kill. With the .45, if you file down the projectile tip, it'll stop a car. Always carried a toss piece as well; a .38 S&W. Doesn't matter why. Don't inquire either. For the record, carrying a firearm on the trax will get you an IMMEDIATE 5 year bit upstate, clean record or not. Don't give a fuck about CC permit. Ask truckers about federal law and let's remember, the trax are under federal jurisdiction (used to be ICC, now STB). No need for them now on my trips as I just make short trips these days.

With that said, VG12, to decide what type of firearm you want, you first have to ask yourself what environment, what purpose and what adversary are you dealing with. Do you want to maim or kill. What I'm driving at here is this: you get a rifle to hunt game. Human or non-human. You get a handgun to do the same. What you have to determine is whether or not you want your game/prey to be questioned after securing them.

Once you've made your determinations above, I would HIGHLY recommend going to a gun range and ponying up some cash to try out some different weapons. Then and only then, make your purchase. I would also HIGHLY recommend that you pony up yet more money and receive some decent training from an instructor. No point in having a firearm unless you are well versed in its use.

In the event that you simply want a firearm to terminate with extreme prejudice, then obviously do not pursue legal channels. I would not suggest this course of action; however, this dialogue is for purely educational purposes.

In conclusion, I disagree with those who would have the 2nd Amendment raped. The United States was founded by armed insurrection and from time to time, that same government must be repelled.

 

[veggieguy12]

IBRR, appreciate you weighing-in here - finally!
So: since riding a train is essentially a trespassing violation, and since there are federal permits for carrying a concealed firearm; are you saying that there is some super-penalty to the trespass because you have a permitted firearm? That's weird. And it sucks.

And now that I mentioned a couple pistols I was leaning toward, anyone want to give me their thoughts on them?
Beretta Px4 Storm
Glock 19
Glock 30SF
Glock 26
These links aren't objective reviews, though...

 

[IBRRHOBO]

The firearms permit is issued state-by-state. Unless you are government or law enforecement there is no 'one pernit covers all' kinda deal. The charge, unless you're committing a crime with the firearm, would be federal (if you are committing a crime and depending on what kind of crime, is a question of jurisdiction and generally the feds waive to allow the state to pick it up). The possession of the firearm gets you the madatory sentence on the federal grid minus your level for allocution on sentencing (felons get 5 years and the federal prison system is FAR better than the state). The criminal tresspassing is a state bit, seperate from the firearms charge and the LEAST of your worries.

No comments on the firearms as I wouldn't recommend any for transportation across a state line. With that said, IF you obtain a permit and IF it is for self protection in the memorable words of many a woman, "Bigger is better," so I'd probably recommend the .50 Desert Eagle.

 

[stove]

While I probably shouldn't be commenting, as I don't own any of the aformentioned pistols, you might want to consider the gLOCK 23. Keep in mind, if you're going to kill something, you don't want to shoot it more than once. Also, you're not going into serious combat, so (as some of the models you've selected) you want to look at something designed for carry, a compact or sub-compact.


Personally, I'd suggest learning to throw knives. Quieter, just as efficient, and a hell of a lot less legal trouble if you get caught.

 

[wartomods]

lol throwing a knive for defense proppose is a bit risky no, you are far more safe if you hold it, in case someone wants contact.

 

[bote]

Interesting, somewhat related article from the Guardian

Americans stick to their guns as firearms sales surge | World news | The Guardian

 

[finn]

...Personally, I'd suggest learning to throw knives. Quieter, just as efficient, and a hell of a lot less legal trouble if you get caught.

Throwing a knife isn't all that efficient, since it means the blade has to have enough heft, and that you should carry more than one- since throwing your only weapon away doesn't make good sense. It is really fun to practice, but in a fight, it is a last ditch move. There is this thing called a rope dart though, which gives you some range, but like throwing knives, requires a lot of practice and you have to be very careful about bounceback.

 

[veggieguy12]

Throwing knives for self-defense sounds like... well, not the best idea I've ever heard.
Throwing a bowling ball might be more effective for disabling an attacker, and has an equal or greater chance of being on-target.
If Walter Sobchak can do it to one of three nihilists...

 

[Angela]

Personally, I'd suggest learning to throw knives. Quieter, just as efficient, and a hell of a lot less legal trouble if you get caught.

If this is a skill you actually have Stove, then please come out to the gathering and offer an impromptu workshop! Otherwise I don't see this as practical. Despite what folks have seen on TV or in movies, throwing knives accurately is not a skill that most people have and it takes lots of practice to acquire. I personally would much rather depend on my skill with a pepper spray canister or a hand held knife than on being able to fend off an attacker by throwing a knife.

 

[veggieguy12]

Thanks for the video, Wider.
Former/current cop "Nutnfancy" is kinda hard to bear, repeating himself for the duration of the video about the importance of licensed people actually carrying concealed. Ughh!
But at least I was able to see the Kahr PM9 and learn more about that.

 

[Doc Road]

I love guns. But on the road the only one type that is practical is a revolver, .38 or smaller. You see clips are slow to reload (and who wants to carry a shit load of expansif bulky extras). Big calibers are expansif, and the deafining blast from a .357 or .45 will be heard for hundreds of yards. When you run out of ammo the gun is uesless, not to metion the waight of live ammo. I carried a pistol grip, 18,1/2'' mossburg 500, 12 gage, on my first ride of Oakland. But that was to much waight, I left it in Davis CA with a frind. Guns have thare place but for me under the bed or the driver seat is whare I like um. The safest place for me is the road, far from the compition of the rat race. The wait of my mind (shoulders espicialy) was the best move I made. Travle with light packs and minds my fellow roadies.

 

[WindWalker1970]

Don't get hung up on caliber size either. A .22lr will kill as deadly as a .50 cal. It's bullet on target every time that counts. You find the handgun you feel the most comfortable with and you get good with the target practice. Hours on range. Then you can make a shot in the "T"zone of the human face with your firearm, they are not getting back up. Period. But remember the weapon is your last choice of defense. Always use your brain first and avoid sketchy situations when you can.

 

[happyearthhomes]

I own guns and shoot almost daily i've went thru 400 rounds this week but travelling with a gun is bad news for legal an risk reasons even being a legal owner and carrier in you home state may not allow you to posses a firearm in another state or individual municipality ie legal to own guns in illinois but not in chicago

 

[dprogram]

I own guns and shoot almost daily i've went thru 400 rounds this week but travelling with a gun is bad news for legal an risk reasons even being a legal owner and carrier in you home state may not allow you to posses a firearm in another state or individual municipality ie legal to own guns in illinois but not in chicago

Wait. What? You can't legally own a gun in Chicago? wtf? How does a law within a city supersede state law?