Why being a 'drunk punk' and an 'anarchist' don't actually go together...

[anyways]

Okay, I'm prepared to get totally flamed for this. Because everyone loves booze so fucking much.:flush:

So I know that it's really fun to get wasted. I guess it also fuels some kind of revolutionary anti-society image to be chugging a 40 in some alley somewhere (or in a yd).... I also am entirely too aware that alcohol is addictive and once you're hooked and dt every morning you're pretty much boozes bitch till you reaaaaaaally put effort into not drinking anymore.

But here's a question for you guys... What makes the alcohol and tobacco companies better than any of the other corporations everyone bitches about? Do people not see the irony in saying that they hate the state ... and then giving money to it by getting drunk everyday?? Why are all corporations evil except the ones that sell what YOU want??

By the way...other than the fact that you can't live too long without a functioning liver... alcohol is the only thing (other than some pharmies I think) that will KILL you while you're withdrawing from it - if you've been a hardcore alcoholic for years-

This to me is all too convenient for the government. I for one (and I KNOW most of you have too) have lost friends and road dogs who died thanks to booze. Do you not think this is exactly what they want?!?!?
"Oh anarchists? Train riders? They're no REAL threat to capitalism or society or anything really cause they fucking kill themselves off anyway! If it's not with booze it's dope! We're safe. Oh and besides...it just makes it easier for us to lock them up PLUS it makes more average Americans hate them too! PSH"

The only positive connection between booze and anarchy is that booze gets people in a mood to fuck shit up. (YES, I known that real anarchy goes MUCH deeper than that, I'm just making a point)

Discuss.

 

[SparrowW]

Weren't you the same who was talking about how much you hate booze and drugs the other day in chat? I don't remember. Anyways, if yo were I think you may be a bit biased, of course those here you drink a lot will be too.

Yes, buying alcohol supports big companies, of course so does being in the internet, using Google, having electricity, having running water, buying food. You gotta draw a line somewhere, some of us draw the line at booze and cigarettes because we use it to cope or just relax. Some people prefer pot, some prefer heroine. (Though I think alcohol is way more dangerous than either of those personally.)

I think perhaps you're also being somewhat alarmist with the whole "It's what they want!" and "It makes it easier to lock anarchists up!" "Makes people dislike anarchists more!" Also, many things can kill you during the withdrawal period, some a lot easier and quicker than alcohol. Why do you think there are prescriptions to help people slowly get off drugs?

It's just a personal thing. I'm personally vegetarian and I think eating meat hurts your body and supports cruel companies, but I don't make a big fuss to those that eat meat. I think heroine is a shitty drug, but if you do heroine, cool, I'm just not gonna take part and would rather not babysit you if things go bad. I like to drink, I like my cigarettes, I like my pot and I like that I have something to turn to when I feel rough.

 

[anyways]

"Weren't you the same who was talking about how much you hate booze and drugs the other day in chat? I don't remember. "
---- --------Possibly, but the truth of the matter is I love booze and drugs, I just hate the power they have over people, and the fact that the proceeds go to the very same government that denies me basic human rights every day.


"Yes, buying alcohol supports big companies, of course so does being in the internet, using Google, having electricity, having running water, buying food. "
-----------------------Absolutely...which is why I live outside, am rarely on the computer (this past week has been an exception), and eat out of dumpsters more often than buying an actual meal (and why I want to learn better hunting/gathering skills)

"I think perhaps you're also being somewhat alarmist "
------------------------ GOOD. Everyone is too fucking complacent these days.

 

[macks]

Cheap entertainment, fun with friends. Helps to go to sleep in the bushes.

I think that your 'government wants anarchists to get drunk so that they won't topple our regime' argument is giving anarchists too much credit. If it was big enough of a deal for the feds to make a plan to deal with 'anarchists' I really doubt that trying to get them drunk would have much to do with it.

I do agree that it is really funny to see some douchebag ranting about how corporations are evil and how real anarchists don't support corporations while they are drinking their 24oz Budweiser(TM) and smoking Camel Menthols(TM).

"Oh anarchists? They're no REAL threat to capitalism because they are too busy riding freight trains and being hoboXcore, checking their StP for friend requests and sewing the newest patch onto their vests and trading dreadlocks with friends."

That last bit was just meant to poke fun, not talk shit.

 

[anyways]

"Cheap entertainment, fun with friends. Helps to go to sleep in the bushes."
----word, word, and word.

"I think that your 'government wants anarchists to get drunk so that they won't topple our regime' argument is giving anarchists too much credit. If it was big enough of a deal for the feds to make a plan to deal with 'anarchists' I really doubt that trying to get them drunk would have much to do with it."
------ Right but if the government does shit like flood LA with crack as population control, who's to say what their tactics are going to be REALLY.


"Oh anarchists? They're no REAL threat to capitalism because they are too busy riding freight trains and being hoboXcore, checking their StP for friend requests and sewing the newest patch onto their vests and trading dreadlocks with friends."
-----(smirk and a giggle)

 

[SparrowW]

Ah, no, you weren't the one. You're actually being cool about your point. The guy that was there was a totally dick. Anyways, rereading I kind of see your point now, where before I thought you were like "It's all evil evil evil! and it makes you evil!"
Good point though and I think you may have a decent argument in there with some tweaking and better flow of thought. I kind of agree too that it all gets out of head easy and sometimes we forget that it's not all 'get drunk and fuck the system', it's taking responsibility too.

 

[614 crust]

Home brew or steal it when possible fuck the big corporations. I do pay for it to though although I'd prefer not to. but I also don't consider my self an anarchist or a punk so whatever. Fuck nevermind I'm drunk.

 

[macks]

Fuck yeah 614crust, now to start putting carboys under all of my favorite bridges so when I roll through towns I have some ready to drink!

How about a hobo homebrew network? Bring some ingredients to the jungle, drink the batch and start a new one for the next tramp? Ah, if only a perfect hobo world without the oogles who would fuck that up.

 

[614 crust]

Sounds good. So if we get rid of all the oogles its possible right? Time to get to work.

 

[anyways]

How about a hobo homebrew network? Bring some ingredients to the jungle, drink the batch and start a new one for the next tramp? Ah, if only a perfect hobo world without the oogles who would fuck that up.

hahaha now you're talkin

 

[ayron]

haha ive been laughing at them for awhile, all these kids smokin cigarets n drinkin alcohol callin themselves anarchists or somthing while they indulge in two of perhaps the biggest forms of social controll employed by the elite few. cracks me up haha.

But still, im reminded of the double edge sword of hypocrisy so i cant be hating on anyone becuase i eat the systems food and use its money which you could say is even worse

 

[pigeon]

everyone has to play into the system in one way or another so i can't touch that cuz i'm also guilty but i think this post is totally valuable because it is the kind of attitude i try to have. questioning everything shouldn't stop at the things you like about the system or the stuff that helps you cope with it. i also think people are a little too worried about looking like a wingnut by being openly concerned about "what's really going on". i just think it's oppressive behavior for someone to say "hey guys, you might want to pay attention to this" and then they get mostly responses about how they are going overboard with it because the shit they are talking about is pretty scary if it's true and not easy to prove.

however, the government does a lot of shady shit and thinking anything is "too much" with them seems kind of naive. i think its extremely interesting how on the Pascua Yaqui reservation out here (az) you can get smokes for cheap, booze for cheap, and you can gamble. why would they allow native americans all this leeway with vices to do it on their land? it's supposed to create jobs and revenue for their tribe, but i think it's to get them hung up on addictions. that way they can't get pissed and take back their land, which by the way, a huge part of their holy land is cut off by the mexican border. seriously though, i talked to a guy that used to work for union pacific out here and he told me out near the rez there's always people jumping in front of trains and laying down on the tracks because their lives are fucked and they are in a hopeless position in society. not to mention the fact that genetically they have found that native american genetics make them prone to heavy drinking and they can't metabolize alcohol like most races so it's just a huge mess that i think worked in the u.s. governments favor by accident at first, but now i think they take advantage of it... aye, ok im ranting. sorry.

 

[macks]

I don't think that disagreeing with someone is oppressive. So stop trying to oppress me by saying the things I'm saying are oppressive! The drunk natives in AZ are depressing as hell. I think at this point the US government would rather have the remaining native population not as fucked so that it was easier to gloss over the terrible things that the US gov't did to put them in the position they are in.

 

[pigeon]

I don't think that disagreeing with someone is oppressive. So stop trying to oppress me by saying the things I'm saying are oppressive!

hahaha i will never oppress you again, but seriously stop oppressing me for calling you oppressive when i think something sounded oppresive. ok?! jeez.

 

[anyways]

however, the government does a lot of shady shit and thinking anything is "too much" with them seems kind of naive. i think its extremely interesting how on the Pascua Yaqui reservation out here (az) you can get smokes for cheap, booze for cheap, and you can gamble. why would they allow native americans all this leeway with vices to do it on their land? it's supposed to create jobs and revenue for their tribe, but i think it's to get them hung up on addictions. that way they can't get pissed and take back their land, which by the way, a huge part of their holy land is cut off by the mexican border. seriously though, i talked to a guy that used to work for union pacific out here and he told me out near the rez there's always people jumping in front of trains and laying down on the tracks because their lives are fucked and they are in a hopeless position in society. not to mention the fact that genetically they have found that native american genetics make them prone to heavy drinking and they can't metabolize alcohol like most races so it's just a huge mess that i think worked in the u.s. governments favor by accident at first, but now i think they take advantage of it... aye, ok im ranting. sorry.

Word.

 

[Beegod Santana]

"Never trust a man who doesn't drink."
- Hunter S. Thompson on Richard Nixon

I'm gonna be honest with you kids here. Ya'll sound like a buncha youngins who've got your heads in the right places, but are giving the government wwwaayyyy too much credit. The reason booze is cheap and plentiful in this country is the same reason its cheap and plentiful all over the world. People like to get drunk. Smokes, booze and gambling are cheap on the rez because the tribe made a decision to let it be that way. They could refuse to sell these items tax-free or build casinos (as some tribes do) but they went for the easy money. The tribal leaders are as much to blame for the resulting problems as anyone. I really believe that the human love for intoxication is universal enough that no government would have to develop a conspiricy involving booze as a way to subdue the masses. Wanna get people really pissed off and angry? How about making the sale of alcohol and tabacco illegal. Then you'd really see a revolt (there's examples of this all throughout history), only people wouldn't be fighting for the "anarchist state" (whatever the fuck thats supposed to be) but for their god given right to get fucked up. If the government intended to subdue the masses through intoxicants they'd go for the same stuff they've used in the past, good old heroin. But as of right now the feds do most everything in their power to make H seem rather unsavory.

This whole idea that there's a bunch of fat white guys sitting at a table under the pentagon being like "if we subsidize alcohol we'll control all the anarchists because they'll be drunk all the time" is fucking ridiculous. Really the idea that the government spends a lot of time thinking about the anarchist community at all is pretty ridiculous. Oh, I know there's been federal investigations in the past and probably will be the future, but thats what you get when you claim to defect from the government of the land you live in, organize and then go blow up a bunch of buildings. A great metaphor for all this is the crimethinc convergence last year. Everyone really wanted to believe the feds had instigators in the crowd and caused all the drama, but really it was all just a bunch of self proclaimed anarchists bitching at each other.

 

[614 crust]

A great metaphor for all this is the crimethinc convergence last year. Everyone really wanted to believe the feds had instigators in the crowd and caused all the drama, but really it was all just a bunch of self proclaimed anarchists bitching at each other.

Exactly. That shit was fucking stupid. I just sit out back and got drunk with a few other traveling kids most of the time.

 

[cranberrydavid]

the government does a lot of shady shit and thinking anything is "too much" with them seems kind of naive. i think its extremely interesting how on the Pascua Yaqui reservation out here (az) you can get smokes for cheap, booze for cheap, and you can gamble. why would they allow native americans all this leeway with vices to do it on their land? it's supposed to create jobs and revenue for their tribe, but i think it's to get them hung up on addictions. that way they can't get pissed and take back their land,

The way I understand the history, the original purpose of the reservations as independent "nations" was so the government had a loophole not to give rez-born Native Americans citizenship rights. The licenses that BIA sold to agents was a way to make money for the government and keep the native population addicted and submissive, like you say.

Then when prohibition came around the rez liquor stores turned into goldmines selling booze off-rez. The profits went to the agents, not the tribes.

Now that most casinos and liquor stores are native owned, the cash is flowing the other direction for the first time in history. I know people on the rez who count it as a victory that "now Indians are getting rich selling vices to White Men."

 

[willskith]

Home brew or steal it when possible fuck the big corporations.

Just for the record, stealing booze doesn't fuck the corporations, only the stores selling the alcohol. As long as you are consuming the corporations are making money off of you, whether you pay or not.

That said, I've always thought it was a hilarious paradox, seeing self-proclaimed anarchists and anti-capitalists drink corporate beer and smoke corporate cigarettes. This thread is a good one. Glad that anyways wasn't afraid to voice his controversial opinion.

 

[coolguyeagle76']

indians are still hungover in minneapolis