Why being a 'drunk punk' and an 'anarchist' don't actually go together...

[acrata4ever]

ok i dont know how simpler to put this. wanna smash the state? DONT PAY TAXES! dont wanna pay the cigarette tax? roll your own from pipe tobacco 13 bucks for 200 cigarettes. dont wanna pay the lenient pipe tobacco tax? buy tobacco seeds and GROW YOUR OWN. dont wanna pay the alcohol tax? MAKE YOUR OWN: jail wine, beer/whiskey still. OR you can QUIT.

 

[flashinglights]

Acrata4ever nails it:

-Don't pay taxes
-Grow your own
-Make your own

And I'd add one more:

*Or trade/buy from someone who grew or made their own - after all, not everyone needs to do everything for themselves.

I never smoked cigs but I do like beer, cut it out for financial reasons lately and to set my alcoholic progression back a few notches... homebrew or found fruit wine will be very tempting when I inevitably start back up. So many fruit trees go to waste now - plums and cherries everywhere that make fantastic wine.

The productivity point is also very real: if you're drinking in the AM you're not gonna be getting anything constructive done towards a better world that day. We should at least be saving it for after the gardening, repair work and jam sessions

 

[xbocax]

the way i see it is beer, cigs, weed, all them drugs are things that people do to loosen up a little. I think if all these things were taken away for a month or so people would get really pist and actually have to come to terms with the fact that our society does not work for us. Our jobs do not have our best interests for us etc etc. Probably then when people arent in a sedated state things might start headin in the right direction. Now to be realistic there are still ways to relieve ones self from the crap we see everyday but not support big corporations and fuck up some organ or muscle in their body. Pretty much any hobby works well something that offers a sense of accomplishment. For me its working on bikes and going hiking. Hikings really good because it allows me to breathe and reminds me how disconnected most of us are from nature with the way our houses and cities are built.

 

[AnarchoNomad]

Is getting drunk frequently a good idea? Probably not. Does doing so mean you aren't "A real anarchist?" That is asinine.
Why do people try to tell others what "real anarchists" can and can't do? Seems a bit self contradictory to me.

 

[Ri Raw]

gotta make some hooch! only way to go. still you have to buy or steal the ingredients but its alot cheaper than buying booze from the store. Any dependence is gonna cost you one way or another. As for ciggs i decided to quit for my birthday which was 4 days ago and so far its fucking terrible but ive only smoked one cigg so fuck the man!

 

[Thrasymachus]

Being an anarchist, first off is largely useless in terms of actually achieving anything personally or socially and is actually alot in-line with useless subcultural identities like being a punk. That said people big into drugs and alcohol are generally flakey and untrustworthy in any case, but especially a liability when you could be a target of law authorities if you are one of the minority of anarchists that does agitate.

Daniel McGowan and alot of other ELF militants likely wouldn't be jail if they had the sense to stay clear of characters like heroin and meth addict, turned snitch and informer, Jacob Ferguson:
http://www.supportdaniel.org/media/faultlines.html

Lately this quote has been making headlines:

Why the Campus Rape Crisis Confounds Colleges

According to an April report of the White House Task Force to Protect Students From Sexual Assault, “One in five women is sexually assaulted in college.” This figure, which comes from the National Institute of Justice’s 2007 “Campus Sexual Assault Study ...

If you read that excellent article you will find that most of these incidents go unreported and the woman are raped by "friends". Due to the extensive youth drinking and drug culture, both parties get so wasted they essentially become different personas compared to their sober selves:

During her freshman year at Occidental College in Los Angeles in 2010, Audrey Logan says, she was raped on two separate occasions by a young man she considered a friend. Because she knew him and had been very drunk both times, it took a while for her to identify what had happened as an assault. ...

That is what modern drinking and drug culture has produced. As a straight edge person, I find it very funny alot of these "victims" have to "discover" they were raped, as that is how out of it they were:

According to a National Institute of Justice study, campus rape victims who are incapacitated by drugs or alcohol very rarely report their attacks to police, and more than a third say it’s because they didn’t realize a crime was committed or harm was intended. “It wasn’t until a close friend at another school simply listened and validated my feelings that I finally was able to start my arduous healing process,” Logan says.

It is better to just avoid such social scenes where people only feel they need alcohol and drugs to be comfortable in a social setting. But especially if you really plan to be an activist or social justice militant, you would be a damned fool to associate with drunks and drug addicts who are so easy for the authorities to turn.

 

[Kim Chee]

As a straight edge person, I find it very funny alot of these "victims" have to "discover" they were raped, as that is how out of it they were:

I'm gonna slip you some roofies, put my weiner in your butt and when you wake up, you're going to "discover" you've been "victimized" and that your ass is bleeding, straightedge or not.

Back on topic:
I'd rather make my own alcohol when possible and I don't smoke (although I have grown tobacco). Those corporations which produce alcohol and tobacco aren't any better than any other corporation. It is a shame that people who purchase their products can probably make more better for less and have fun doing it at the same time.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Well since I am straight-edge, I don't get so out of my mind, that I need to have post-fact conservations with friends to discover if I was violated or not. Also I don't think the traditional victim - perpetrator dichotomy of rape applies, here. The article and even one of the victims admit as much:

Audrey Logan says ... “I really believed rape happened in the dark, by people you barely or don’t know, and weapons or group force were always involved" ....

Again like I said and advised avoiding flakey, untrustworthy people is a good habit in life. They won't help you when you need it, most likely, and they will most likely disappoint you. And a good way to do that is distance yourself from the druggie and heavy drinking scenes. Especially so if you are trying to fight the system, which most anarchists, aren't admittedly. Thousands of social justice militants have been jailed because of turned druggies and drinkers who initially got into trouble for those activities and snitched their way into freedom by offering up someone else's head.

 

[Kim Chee]

As a straight edge person, I find it very funny alot of these "victims" have to "discover" they were raped, as that is how out of it they were:

There's nothing funny about rape. I don't wish it upon anybody, but if there was a line of people waiting to get raped, I'd put you at the front and keep you there until some time after you stopped laughing.


On topic: Yes, drugs and alcohol tend to take the motivational spark out of people whether it is anarchy, work, relationships or any other worthwhile endeavor.

 

[Art101]

I embraced the whole nihilism thing at like 14 and it was Damn the torpedos for me.I lost friends jobs and a lot of time thanx to the booze. It did stifle my creativity except for finding ways to stay fucked up. I have been sober for 3yrs now and I find I can look at shit alot more clearly and have more rational discussions.As for Anarchists and booze and drugs,the people I have had the best convos with were straight edge.

 

[scrutable]

I agree that alcoholics and junkies can be a problem (though some of the staunchest people I've known have been junkies), and it's not desirable to be dependant on anything, but you can drink and take drugs in moderation.

I don't take drugs or smoke but I drink reasonably often, get drunk occasionally. It's no problem in my life nor in that of many people I know. Christ, almost
everyone drinks, from brickies to high court judges.

In Oz you can get chop-chop (black market tobacco from the field). There's lots of small breweries and vineyards too so you can definately avoid multinational corporations.

Moderation and self control is the ideal, to hell with abstinence, life's to be enjoyed at least a little.

 

[Art101]

I enjoy my life plenty,now more so then ever.Some people have great self control and such my hat is off to them.I do everything to the nth degree so I have chose to be clean and sober.

 

[scrutable]

I enjoy my life plenty,now more so then ever.Some people have great self control and such my hat is off to them.I do everything to the nth degree so I have chose to be clean and sober.

I'm not telling anyone they have to smoke, drink and take drugs, was just commenting that this thread is being a bit puritanical.

 

[Art101]

I think it is more of a reaction in the US to constant drunk and high wandering about.It has become an issue here;at least.Thus some of the reactions.I try to be a live and let live kinda person but personally I get tired of seeing people in the "homeless" community acting the way they do, and expecting that it will be an accepted expression of their "politically motivated " actions.

 

[scrutable]

I think it is more of a reaction in the US to constant drunk and high wandering about.It has become an issue here;at least.Thus some of the reactions.I try to be a live and let live kinda person but personally I get tired of seeing people in the "homeless" community acting the way they do, and expecting that it will be an accepted expression of their "politically motivated " actions.

I think you're always going to get that though, at least in any loose community of homeless people.
People shouldn't claim some sort of moral highground because they booze and take drugs, but I think they have every right to drink and use drugs.
I've never understood the straightedge mentality on sex, smoking, drugs and so on. As far as I'm concerned moderation with the occasional excess is the way to do it.
They're good ways to unwind.
But anyway, I'm fine with people not drinking, just not so keen on people saying others shouldn't.

 

[Art101]

I never said they couldnt or shouldnt in fact I believe I actually said live and let live.I myself after much experimentation have realized I dont need it.I never said people shouldnt get drink fuck or get high.As you qouted me then you are not understanding what I am trying to say or dont want to understand.

 

[scrutable]

I never said they couldnt or shouldnt in fact I believe I actually said live and let live.I myself after much experimentation have realized I dont need it.I never said people shouldnt get drink fuck or get high.As you qouted me then you are not understanding what I am trying to say or dont want to understand.

Read the post that starts the thread, then consider my comments here.
I'm not responding to you alone.

 

[Odin]

That said people big into drugs and alcohol are generally flakey and untrustworthy in any case

I drink like a fucking fish.
I also have my "responsibilities" more or less together.
I have problems with depression but I don't let them make me an asshat.
I run into travelers and folks with "problems" all the time. Sometimes I can kick sometimes just get a sandwhich.
Mostly they are just glad to have someone to chat with for a minute.
I would like to get more motivation to do more. Food not bombs... travel... meet people and generally be nice.
(I have not yet... thats my problem... along with drinking... but I don't let that make me a dickwad)
nothing wrong with being straight edge if thats what you need.
I find my drinking does not make me a horrible person.(I only harm myself... and this damn depression thing... I guess I just have brain chemistry... or just think I see the sad world sometimes... (kinda a tunnel vison somedays)...

That is what modern drinking and drug culture has produced. As a straight edge person, I find it very funny alot of these "victims" have to "discover" they were raped, as that is how out of it they were:

Now if you want to make me angry.
That will do it.
Trying to make a person that was raped feel guilty for what happened to them??
Now you have me seeing red.
And I don't have any real contact with straight edge culture.
But if your supposed to be my first interaction with that culture. I have no good opinion of you. As a matter of fact I think that kind of thinking is dangerous. And your opinion of it being funny disgusting.
Good thing I take people one by one as I meet and get to know them.
That way if I do meet a straight edge person that is not you... I will greet with a handshake and a smile.

But you know the next person you meet that has a drinking or drug problem. I hope they steer clear of you. Sympathy is anathema to your vocabulary.

 

[Art101]

There is nothing funny about rape I totally agree with you Odin and I dont consider myself straight edge.I still smoke tobacco its one of my last vices nor will I preach sobriety to anyone or shun them if they drink.That said I do have an issue with people that will come into a camp agreeing it is a"safe place" get drunk and cause mayhem.My experience with that was the occupy movement.Generally everyone I know drinks and or smokes weed.I respect their choices and they respect mine and it is great.Now if they want help getting sober I am right there to encourage and guide them onto the path I have taken. I lost someone very close to an od on prescription drugs which I think is the worst issue going right now and Docs seem to be the pushers of death in my mind.Anyways thats my 2 cents on that.

 

[West]

Booze has long been a drug of oppression because it gives the rabble something to do other than get together and organize in their community. Maybe a stretch, but drugs have been used this way many times by capitalist governments. England used to ship vast quantities of opium to China, getting their government and population addicted so that they could better colonize. The Reagan administration put down the growing unrest and organization of the communist Black Panthers and black neighborhoods in the US by shipping in large quantities of Cocaine to those neighborhoods and declaring the war on drugs to punish users simultaneously.

I enjoy a good drink or toke now and again but I try to stay far from becoming addicted as possible because I tend to get addicted easily. Its a personal decision with larger ramifications.