Dear kids... (1 Viewer)

614 crust

Ex-Moderator / Elitist asshole
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
449
Age
41
Website
feralkidscreations.com
I'm writing this cause I've become fucking disgusted with the state of the traveler scene and feel some things need to be said about traveling in general, so here goes.

NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING!!!! "Fuck you pay me" is supposed to be a joke, not an actual lifestyle choice. I don't care how fucked your parents where, or how many people have a status advantage over you. You are only worth what you've earned. Whenever someone hands you money for sitting on your ass or holding a piece of cardboard, count it as a blessing. Flying signs is not ""work," busking is not "work," work is busting your ass. That $ you make panhandling doesn't belong to anyone, especially not you, you're just blessed to be in possession of it for a short period of time. In some parts of mexico, skilled carpenters make under $1 /hr. The fact that you can get drunk all day sitting on a street corner drinking $5-7 sidewalk slams is a testament to how great this country really is.

YOU HAVE NO GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO BE A BUM!! In many many countries on this planet the transient life is near impossible. Refusing to work can get you imprisoned or killed all over the world. No matter how low you are in American society, you still have it better than literally millions and millions of people.

TRAINS ARE NOT FOR TRENDY PUNK KIDS! Train hopping is for people who straight up can not live in normal society. Trains kill, trains are dirty, trains drop you out at sidings in the middle of nowhere, trains take you places you wish you've never been. Just because you've read all the threads on stp doesn't mean you know shit. Its not an easy road, and the last thing the traveler community needs is a bucha kids from the burbs trying to prove how "punk rawk" they are.

TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW LONG YOU'VE BEEN ON THE ROAD!!! I have 1000x more respect for the kid who'll tell me that they took off from there mom's house a month ago and rode the greyhound then the fake ass punk kid lying about how long they've been traveling and where they've been. Whether you realize it nor not, real travelers see through your bullshit in a second.

GETTING DRUNK IN THE SAME CITY EVERYDAY DOES NOT MAKE YOU A TRAVELER!!! I don't care if you don't have a shopping cart, if you just spange the same places and get drunk in the same city /town /county, you're a fucking homebum. Deal with it.

SHARE BITCH!! Like I said earlier, that money doesn't belong to you. If you got something for nothing, fucking share it with other people who have nothing. Some of the most generous people I've met where also straight up junkies. Few things piss me off more than someone banking with a sign who then hoard it for themselves as if they earned it legitly. Don't worry, what comes around goes around, I'm living proof.

CLEAN UP YOUR SHIT!! One of the main reasons towns get harsh on travelers is because of the fucking messes you kids leave. Leaving trash at the spot you where just flying is a HUGE insult to the people who just helped you out.

I could go on and on, but these are main things I've been seeing a lot of lately that I feel need to be addressed. Oh, and all you tweakers can't drop dead soon enough as far as I'm concerned. Just please don't do it on a train.
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Dameon

Wanderer
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
819
Current Location
Northern California
I don't consider busking a form of begging. You're working for tips. You perform a service, and people pay you based on whether they enjoy your service. Waitresses do the same thing. Of course, people still give you money based on pity if you look homeless, but people also give waitresses tips sometimes based on them feeling sorry for them having such a crappy job. I expect to get paid for busking because people obviously enjoy my music; if they're willing to plop down $60 to go see a band on a stage, it's not too much to expect they give me a dollar if they think I'm worth stopping and listening to.
 

Alaska

Newbie
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
272
One of the betters threads on here, if not just because the regs on here usually (<--keyword) know what they're talking about.

I DO think busking is a form of work, though. All the dynamics have already been explained by Dameon, so I won't get into that. But honestly, in no way should it be more "respectable" in our eyes. Spangers have to go through constant berating, angry fathers getting off their jobs, the police more so (in my experiences, anyway), and, on average, less pay from the nice people who give any of us money in the first place. They're just getting by with what resources and charisma they have. But yeah, that also gives them no right to act like little fucking 12 year old brats who might have just recently found out about their mommy's secret booze compartment in her night-stand. It's all about respect, folks. I'm sure everyone can agree on that.

Though, obviously, I totally recommend picking up an instrument to anyone. It really is the shit. Or, fuck that. Painting. Sculpture. Juggling. A capella. Any kind of creative output. Keeps you fueled and interested when nothing else will. Just sayin.
 

shittickit

Newbie
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
46
Current Location
somewhere
And sharing is one thing, but expecting somebody else to share their money just because you saw them flying a sign is bullshit. If somebody's starving, I'll give them something to eat if I can. If somebody's DTing (hard, not "oh no I have a bit of the shakes"), I'll buy them a beer. I'll share with people I like, if they're not total freeloaders. If you can't make your own money, then you don't need to be on the streets anyway. If I make bank with a sign, I don't feel a responsibility to give it to other people. If I can make bank at a spot, I'll be gone in an hour, and you can feel free to make bank at the same spot. If flying a sign is so easy, I don't see why anybody would get upset over somebody else making money and not immediately handing it over to them

and if i have one fucking slam don't get butt hurt when i don't share it and i will not share with people i don't know who just assume i will and my definition of "work" is anything that i do to get money otherwise building and painting are hobbies
 

wartomods

Newbie
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
662
Current Location
EU
thank god i am a hermit traveller (wait another oxymoron), for me there is nothing better than cycling wherever i want and at sunset take my tent and lay down at some open field.

Never really got into squat community living.
 

falcon91

Lurker
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
7
honesty... we cant rely on the goverment for it, so we have to rely on eachother as individuals.

whats the use of lieing about how long youve been on the road, and what experiences you have.
its not gonna make anybody respect you anymore than they already do.
i could honestly care less about what other people do,
were all on the road for different reasons.

If your looking to be recognized for your achievements....
climb mountains or something

quit ruining what little opportunity is left for people to get by.

go home!
 

iamwhatiam

Burrito fund contributor
StP Supporter
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
905
Age
34
Current Location
Darrington, WA
good thread...but i gotta say busking is my main means of making money most of the time. however, i don't expect anything out of it besides sharing what gift i have with other people and hopefully improving their day in some way. most of the time i don't even like to set out a hat or tip jar......that being said, altho i do try and share what i have with others as often as possible, sometimes lazy assholes will take advantage of that kindness and i have chewed people out before for being greedy and wantin a schwill off my first beer of the day, when they are obviously well and drunk...that kind of shit pisses me off. and especially kids not pickin up their trash is a big one with me. they may not think it, but people DO watch us and DO take notice of how we respect/disrespect their towns
 

Uncle Mom

Newbie
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
148
Current Location
everywhere
Website
www.freedirtfilm.com
busking is not "work," work is busting your ass.
Busking IS WORK. Just because I play on the street doesn't make me any less of a musician than those who play in venues. I sell CDs, I have a website, I record other bands. BUSKING IS WORK and I EARN every penny. When you say it is not work you might as well be taking any and all the music you love calling up the artists and telling them to get jobs too.

I earn money with CD sales. I get video taped constantly, I gather crowds. THAT IS WORK.

Now with that being said, sitting on the sidewalk drunk with an out of tune guitar and yelling at anyone who takes your picture "GIMME A DOLLAR" is really disrespectful to those who are BUSKING FOR A LIVING. If you are on the street performing, they have the right to take your picture, or video, WITHOUT ASKING. YOU are the one putting yourself out there. You can't bitch about your lost right unless you let them practice theirs too.

and again, BUSING IS WORK!!!!! I EARN MY LIVING!!!!!!!!
 

stove

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
482
Current Location
on the road
Dameon, you are definitely wrong about one thing. As someone with a strong body, but very little musical talent, I can dig ditches in the sun all fucking day without worry about it, but my meager attempts at busking have been harder than I could have imagined. It is definitely work.

At the same time, I understand how people classify it as begging. You are asking for money on the street...I won't begrude you that.

It's all work, one way or another. As someone mentioned, Spanging is work. If you know how to be personable, charismatic, and whatever else it takes, you're working in the hope of the exchange of money. I won't begrudge people that. Flying a sign, while not very physically demanding, is still a form of work. You are doing something. Even sitting on the street, passed out drunk with a cup full of a few nickels is a form of work, in my mind. Granted, it's not hard work, and therefore it should not earn you much. If you are smart enough to make it work for you, through patience, experience, good location, whatever, good on ya.

I agree completely with what I feel is the nature of the post. The idea that there is a sense of entitlement in many of the dirty kids on the street nowadays. I'm not some old, wizened traveler, but I have been fortunate enough to travel a number of countries around the world. Conditions are a LOT worse in many other places. The fact that we live in a country affluent enough TO waste so much that we can dumpster is a gift beyond which many people can imagine.

"fuck you pay me" really bothers me. I dont fit in the typical stereotype of a hitchhiker or trainhopper in the US. I stay as clean as I can, i don't fly signs (except for humor), detest spanging, and don't like being riddiculously drunk in public. That being said, I love kicking it with dirty kids, as much as I love meeting anyone in this world, someone to talk to, chill with, and get into some shit with. I always find it funny when I drop into a drinking circle, and people immediately begin hitting me up for change. I look like I've got money (I usually do), so they want it.

Sharing? I share everything that I have. Literally. That being said, I see a difference between sharing and just giving shit away. I had a buddy of mine checking out my knife, wishing that he could get one like it (Leatherman Wave). Unfortunately in his part of the world, it's an import, and would cost a few hundred bucks to get. I knew that i could get one when I came back, so I gave it to him, flat out. he actually argued with me because he wanted to feel that he had traded honestly for it...Imagine that. Give me a good reason to share something, and I will. But tell me that you are entitled to it, and I'll give you a nice fK you and nothing else.

Sharing is important. Equally important is the intelligence and discretion that goes with knowing who to share what with. For example, why should I give everything I have to, say Dameon instead of 614 crust? Or should I give it all to electrogypsy for his bus? Or should I keep it for my own travels? I keep a bunch of food and water in my van for the hitch-hikers that I pick up, always offering it to them in the event that they might need it. I meet a lot of street kids who feel that they are entitled to shit, and therefore don't do anything to try to earn it. They're usually very hungry.

I'll stop rambling now.
 
OP
B

Beegod Santana

Wanderer
Joined
Jan 28, 2008
Messages
664
Current Location
everywhere
I was gonna write something about the busking work / thing here, but it seems kinda redundant at this point. I think what got lost in this thread is that its all about ATTITUDE. My #1 problem with the scene these days is disrespectful little piss ants who feel the world owes them something. I've made thousands on street corners all over this country, and yes it took effort, but at no point did I ever feel that I was OWED something by the people I played for. I never said that you should give everything you make away, I just said that when your doing good you should spread some of that luck around. Share a half gallon, smoke some kids down, or, god forbid, kick a buck or two to someone else panhandling.

I find it interesting how make people freak out at the idea of humbling themselves a little.

And some of you just straight up need to call the WWWHHAAAAMMMMMBULANCE!
 

stove

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
482
Current Location
on the road
I totally agree with spreading the wealth around. I've actually got a scenario from a small gathering last year that I'm curious to get folks' input on...

We were chillin in southern Portugal, about 150 folks, right near the beach, just enjoyin life. It was a hitch-hiking gathering, plenty of freeloaders, freegans, hippies, etc. A few drainbows aswell, but that is kinda to be expected. The second night, I pitched in a bit of cash (somewhere around forty bucks) to buy an extra lot of booze for everyone (i matched the group contrib) so we could have a good time. And a good time was had by all.

Well the next night, the collection went up again. Someone apparently leaked how much i had contributed, because when the booze ran out that night, i had a few kids come up to me and ask where the "rest" of the booze was, and why i hadn't bought more for the group. One chick pointed out that because I had contributed the prior night, I was expected to contrib again. This pissed me off to no end, and I stopped contributing anything for the rest of the time. Fucking entitlement syndrome.
 

venusinpisces

Newbie
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
323
Current Location
California
Sharing is important. Equally important is the intelligence and discretion that goes with knowing who to share what with. .
That's what it's about. I will almost always feed people once, but if they disrespect me in my own home (or just in general) it will not happen again. Right now I have a homeless guy who does my dishes in exchange for meals and the occasional night over. He brought a friend over one day who did nothing but talk shit and criticize me the whole time he was here eating my food. And wouldn't you know he was a young traveler punk too. So the complainer won't be coming here anymore but hopefully he can grow up and get some help elsewhere. Even though I kicked him out I let it go because anyone who would do that is causing a lot of problems for themselves already. I'd rather not get sucked into it at all.

On another note, I've heard many people on this board say that travelers are mostly middle class or well off but this really has not been my experience. I've known just as many whose parents were junkies, crack whores etc.--and a lot of times these are the ones who turn into chronic spangers. That doesn't excuse a hostile attitude but I guess it seems like, in the grand scheme of things, the attitude of an annoying panhandler just doesn't matter that much compared to all the other problems in the world. I've spent a lot of time with many who would be classified under the "scumfuck" label--the permanently drunk/violent squatters who don't care about anything and leave a trail of problems behind everywhere they go. And knowing their backgrounds makes me just feel sorry for them. This doesn't mean I will give them my money/attention necessarily but I don't get upset either. Why bother? I've seen enough to know that when you treat others poorly it will come back to you sooner or later.

And as for the sharing of drugs/alcohol instead of necessities, that gets complicated because a lot of times you're dealing with active addictions. At what point are you just furthering someone's problems instead of helping them? I think it really depends on the situation and there aren't really any clear answers. That's why I just feed people and give them medicine. Also, have enough humility to know that you alone will not be able to transform people's deep problems just by helping one time. If they are rude or ungrateful, just don't help them again. simple solution. And never help people because you want to be liked. This just makes you an easy target. You've got to be self sufficient enough to move on from other people's drama and not get involved in the first place if it will cause more problems than you can afford to take on.
 

stove

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
482
Current Location
on the road
I've heard many people on this board say that travelers are mostly middle class or well off
Hey I'm legitimately curious, where have you seen that on these boards? I ask because, in my experience, most of the travelers I have encountered domestically have not fit into this mould at all. Certainly it is more common for those whom have made it abroad.
 

venusinpisces

Newbie
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
323
Current Location
California
Oh, I can't remember all the places where I've heard that but there's a thread on here called
"stop pretending to be poor" or something along those lines. And while that was kind of an amusing caricature of "summer campers" it doesn't fit many squatters I've known at all. It doesn't really matter all that much what someone's background is until people start looking down their noses at spangers and regular bums who are probably too crazy to work in the first place. I don't think that, as people who are doing illegal things to begin with, squatters are really in any place to be getting all high and mighty about being a busker. It's one thing to criticize belligerence but regular spanging? I don't get it.
 

stove

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
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on the road
ah. I think the anger is not so much at people whom are spanging, but the attitude that they may come with (hence the "fuck you pay me" joke). I've got no problem with spanging, in it's essence. I do, however, had issues with the people that feel that they are entitled to something simply because they are spanging, and someone else has more than them.

I was curious, and i'll hunt down the thread you point to, because travel *IS* for the rich. Perhaps not necessarily middle-class or whatever, but travel is a luxury, to be sure. In the case of many of the runaways, tramps, street kids and freegan/rainbow/whatever freelovers, it is the luxury of freedom, not money, but it is still a luxury.

Many people aren't so fortunate, and have to button down and bust their backs just to stay alive...
 

venusinpisces

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Dec 20, 2009
Messages
323
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California
travel *IS* for the rich...
It's easy to say that if you're coming from the perspective of having acquired a four year degree and being able to afford international travel. Merely being in that situation will usually put enough of a barrier in between you and people who really don't have anything that you are never going to know what their situation is to begin with. The reality of the U.S. is that there are pockets of enormous wealth right next to pockets of extreme poverty--anyone who's been to some of the unheated trailer parks in Alabama where everyone over the age of 20 is missing teeth can tell you that much. People like to talk about how hard it is in other countries and I sometimes wonder if that isn't because they don't have to actually deal with the reality of those people's lives. It's all too convenient to be compassionate towards people you will never see or ever have to deal with. You sound like a generous person (maybe too generous) so it may be that a lot of this perspective is coming from bitterness towards people who ripped you off in the past. But don't assume that just because we have a pitifully inadequate welfare state here that people who travel are all rich. If that was true then why would we have problems like gang warfare in the ghettos? Attitudes of entitlement do not = riches.
 

stove

Newbie
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
482
Current Location
on the road
I can appreciate your assumption that I'm approaching this from a position of wealth and privledge. Rather, I was thinking about the experiences I have been fortunate enough to have in my travels. Why do you assume that I am thinking of situations abroad? I am well aware of the economic disparity within the United States.

Reading your response, I get the distinct feeling that you did not actually read mine...
 

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