Real Anarchists Don't Breed (1 Viewer)

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finn

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That interpretation of anarchism is extremist and nonsensical. I'm not an anarchist myself, but I have friends who are and who also have children. I mean do people really believe that people who don't use contraceptives or have abortions cannot be anarchists unless they are sterile or abstain from sex? I understand the population density argument, but I feel that there can be solutions figured out to avoid the pitfalls of capitalism instead of deciding to eliminate parenthood because it is hierarchical. There are going to be hierarchies- it's a fact of life- when there's a skillshare or a triage, it's unavoidable.
 

veggieguy12

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That interpretation of anarchism is extremist and nonsensical.
I think the first seven paragraphs are pretty right-on and indisputable.

Extreme, perhaps, but also a bit tongue-in-cheek, I think.
It is, after all, the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, whose acronym is said as "vehement".

Anyway, extreme circumstances call for extreme actions.
What could be a more extreme situation than planetary degradation and mass extinctions - both caused by our own blossoming (over)population - which will in turn bring about our own extinction? As our civilized population grows exponentially, the wild/"Nature" is killed more rapidly.

do people really believe that people who don't use contraceptives or have abortions cannot be anarchists unless they are sterile or abstain from sex?
I don't think an anarchist is defined on his/her status as a parent or non-breeder, and I'm not sure the essay is really saying this. I think it's trying to encourage those who identify as anarchists to steer clear of breeding by getting sterilized, rather than to shirk those with children as 'bad anarchists'.

Any thoughts on the cartoon?
 

finn

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There is probably a reason why I shouldn't be posting anything when I'm sleep deprived- my thought process isn't terribly clear. I need to sleep soon. Anyway, I really should have noticed that it was from the Voluntary Human Extinction people, I view them as a bit of a comedy group in the manner of a tom swifty. Anyway, it's proven that education and self-empowerment works the best as a contraceptive, but it's inconvenient at the very least for the powers that be. The cartoon is pretty much how wannabe activists delude themselves into thinking they're radicals.
 

codym

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In the Unabomber manifesto Kaczynski says radicals should breed like rabbits and I'm of the same opinion. The social order allows for very off-balance "natural" selection. The more free blood there is the more the ratio tilts between us and the farm animals (capitalists)!
 
OP
mkirby

mkirby

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I've always thought radicals were made, not born

I mean, if there's one thing you can do to make a kid into a bible-thumping facist, it's give him anarchist parents.

Children will always find a way to rebel...
 

bobNkamille

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I've always thought radicals were made, not born

I mean, if there's one thing you can do to make a kid into a bible-thumping facist, it's give him anarchist parents.

Children will always find a way to rebel...
we discussed that me and my soon to be husband . He said wouldn't it be funny if our kids grew up to be gangsters i told him that I wouldn't pay for there shit (gangster kids are expensive). Then he said what if they rebel by becoming hardcore Christians i just laughed. I'm not an anarchist I would love to believe that anarchism would save the human population but the truth is it's contradictory. Even with anarchy there would have to be set law set rules it may not be like the government we have now but it would still be us governing people. People "who do not bare leadership skills" would turn to the ones who do, we evolved from ape's which are pack animals. I think with out everything that people have grew so use to we would fall back to a primal stature.

There are rules with in a pack there are rules with in a family. There is structure to survival and a need to survive no matter how much we suppress these needs they are still embedded into our genes. If no one had kids because it was "rebelling" to not conform to society then you would be conforming by having abortions birth control buying these things to make it so much harder for you not to beckon to your primal responsibility to reproduce. I said this to a few people "going green" is the new black soon enough it will fall out of fashion. being political falls into this same category it's the new in thing to do. Everything has a fashion to it sooner or later no one will care we might care about organic D.I.Y shit our children might even care but who says they wont rebel against us as we rebelled against our parents and our parents rebelled against there's. There is no saving humanity unless we go straight into primativism and god knows that, that's not going to happen.
Thats my theory on the mess
Who says you have to own all the latest gadgets to have children. It's like people telling me i have to do my taxes or own a house car phone or computer that's the social norm if i choose to not be part of it then let it be


We all conform one way or another
 

soymilkshakes

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I'd assume the majority of people who are brought up staunchly Conservative/Liberal/religious/etc etc etc stick pretty close to those beliefs - otherwise regional stereotypes such as Bible Beltin' Southerners and hippie dippy Californians would switch every generation, no? My parents are pretty politically minded, and that is definitely a huge factor in why I grew up so politically passionate. I tended to rebel in other ways. The more radical people breed, the more chances for for radical children (who will hopefully still question everything, even their parents' teachings, and alter passed on ideals to fit them).
But I don't think whether or not we small minority breeds or not will affect extinction or the coming of a huge Anarchistic revolution. We're going to self-destruct (or Mama Earth will shake us off) unless the people that already exist figure out a better way to do so in a less fucked up way.

I'm not holding my breath.
 

veggieguy12

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Ted K isn't exactly in a position to be admired.
He done fucked up! Had a glimpse but not the whole picture of the problem, and certainly not the solution, methinks.
 
A

Arapala

I deleted myself
Sometimes things are just taken to far. What is this some sort of game?

"Oh whats that johnny? You have got a kid! You are no anarchist you dominated capitalistic pig!"

I swear some anarchists just take things to far so they can make themselves feel like more of an anarchist than the next guy. Ridiculous.

What if you want to raise a child. What if thats what makes you happy in life?
 

moe

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i liked how they said, "in denser areas, we can't even cross the street, until a signal light gives us permission."
i thought no shit, i don't want to get fucking smacked and totaled by a freaking truck.lol
i thought that was funny.
anyway....im still reading it. on i go.
 

moe

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I found this hard to consider.
and i'd never do this. if it doesn't make me an anarchist yet i find other ways to rebel, what does that make me. a non radical radical. it's fucked up. if those anarchists volunteered to not procreate, there's other christian, hippie, fascist, whatevers ready to fuck and have more kids.
it's impossible when everything is spreading so quickly, to call for human extinction.

and that doesn't make me pro-life.
 

katiehabits

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if any group of people shouldn't be breeding it's the upper class fascist fucks who's children are going to grow up to be just like them and continue the cycle of destruction and oppression.
but then again isn't that oppressing folks too? during the holocaust hitler sterilized gypsies because he didn't think they had the "right" to breed.
there's too many people on this planet but the choice is yours......
 

cailyBear

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I think that the problem does indeed solely lie in the numbers.... the article is extreme because we have an extremely big problem on our hands. 6 billion people, we have to be sorted through somehow don't we? like crayons in a box-- our numbers really are that great. I do agree with the article. none of us would be here having this conversation/ debate if it wasn't for the problems that arise from ... well whatever you think they arise from... i believe they arise from our giant brains overly complicating everything, including our instincts to survive and reproduce. we have that instinct so we can keep the human race going, as do all other animals.. mammals enjoy having sex to ensure reproduction.. but the everyday mind forgets this, which leads to fucking like rabbits. which i feel is just unnecessary now that we have 6,000,000 humans. Whew.
 

cailyBear

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you say that if anyone shouldn't be breeding it's the yuppies, well, there wouldn't be yuppies, hippies, anarchists, there wouldn't be any of these classifications because they were created as a way to differentiate yourself from the masses. the now titled "anarchists" may be the only ones who can see this big pictures, and that's the whole point, that's why a real anarchist would not breed.
 

lobotomy3yes

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I have never been too sure of my stance on this issue, partially because I am not committed to the idea that human extinction is in the planet's best interest.

First of all I would like to note that the most egregious offender of environmental destruction is well, the environment itself. I think we need to be honest about why most people who care about the environment do so: to maintain human existence.


The other option is that of utilitarianism. In that case we give all organisms equal consideration of interests. We strive for the least amount of suffering across the board and the most amount of autonomy. I find myself somewhere in this vein.

The problem is that by these ethics, theoretically, it would be unethical for humans to purposefully end themselves in order to keep other organisms from suffering. The reason is that humans have the capability to actually reduce organism-wide suffering due to natural causes. This can be through technology, and also through "green" stuff like certain forms of permaculture. Now we certainly are not on the right track now, but I do not believe that has anything to do with "human nature." I mean shit, I left the church for a reason.

Either way, it doesn't seem particularly important to me as mass extinction events is inevitable. At least for the time being. It is surprising how few people are actually aware of some of the perfectly natural processes at work. Take Yellowstone for example. That place is a fucking ticking time bomb. It is a supervolcano that seems to erupt every 40,000 years (the last eruption was...40,000 years ago). When it erupts, the entire midwest, most of the west coast, and parts of the east coast will be destroyed. Several states will disappear by the blast alone. The ash depositories will most likely result in a rapid volcano winter worldwide- this could lead to another ice age. A supervolcano came dangerously close to annihilating humans once before. Our data indicates that the population possibly dropped as low >1000 worldwide. Granted we had not spread out though.


Anyway, the idea that there is something inherent about nature that deserves our respect is laughable. Nature doesn't give a shit about nature so we should we by those principles? If we are to actually care about anything other than our own species, we must arrive at our conclusions through a blend of logic, intuition, and practicality.
 

oldmanLee

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Rather well thought out,Lobotomy3yes.......the only question that I have is where is the haha that Veggieguy is refering?Must be my old brain,but it seems your reasoning and rational cut rather deep,and I still don't get the joke he's refering to...............
 

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