crimthinc...

dirty_rotten_squatter

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I just see it as an alternative publishing company. I didn't like Evasion, though the book was better than the zine. I couldn't get through the first pages of Days of War, Nights of Love, just because of the romantic language it used. I hate pseudo-intellectual writing because it's easy to make a simple idea sound overly complex and hard to make a difficult idea simple to understand. Off the Map, as I understand it, had nothing to do with crimethinc aside from being published by them. I did like that book.

I'd like to see them publish a book that had case studies of collectively operated workplaces (or even just infoshops), so that people are given solid and concrete examples of successful models which they can make a living from, instead of untried concepts and bits of who-knows-how-accurate historical lore.

That's why I'm leaning towards crimethinc'ers being rich kids- pushing the rhetoric instead of putting bread on the table on their terms. They don't go for the important nitty-gritty details and just bask in some imaginary future la-la land of anarchy.


Exactly, it makes it sound all fun and floating on cloud nine, but they dont share all of the brutality or being shunned by society and I think thats why mommys boys are so proned to going through that is because they think they can go about being rebelious without getting there hands thoroughly dirty
 

veggieguy12

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...it makes it sound all fun and floating on cloud nine, but they dont share all of the brutality or being shunned by society...

Well I'm not saying this assessment is correct, or that it's what CrimethInc's intentions are, but I'm not saying you're wrong - what I wanna say is, if you tell people about the tough stuff and the bad parts, that's a turn off.
So if CrimethInc is trying to get people to drop out of the mainstream and maybe even rebel against it, of course they're gonna highlight and polish-up and romanticize the good days and benefits more than the bad days and difficulties.
 

dirty_rotten_squatter

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Well I'm not saying this assessment is correct, or that it's what CrimethInc's intentions are, but I'm not saying you're wrong - what I wanna say is, if you tell people about the tough stuff and the bad parts, that's a turn off.
So if CrimethInc is trying to get people to drop out of the mainstream and maybe even rebel against it, of course they're gonna highlight and polish-up and romanticize the good days and benefits more than the bad days and difficulties.

Yeah and that's exactly why it brings in the crowd it does. Horribly overly security cultured overly politically correct kids who want to have fun and cant reall think far enough outside of the box, and once they get a taste of wht its really like they become afraid, hence the overly security culturedness and they try to be so careful that they draw attention to themselves and end up being careless. I mean I went to one and my last convention last year. They were teaching you how to make dirty bombs and how to prepare for chemical warfare by the government I was looking around, I was most likely one of the oldest ones there (being 22) and they were teaching these kids this shit and they were soaking it up. Now Im not dogging on the younger kids alot of them are really cool and arent like this at all, but I heard one say "oh yeah I put that in my neighbors mail box it was funny" I mean is that what they really want to be contibuting to? I knew this crimthinc rail rider and he wouldnt let us coppy his cc reason being he didnt want it to fall in to the hands of the government. I told him that if they really wanted it they could get it if they didnt already have it and what would they do with it anyway? And they are just so clicky, they dont really talk to anyone outside of there little bubble. Now I'm not saying all of them are like this, just the more than enough that I've run into. But that's my bash on them. I agree with some of you, it is a good way to get your foot in the door to understanding but I would never walk all the way in
 

griffjam

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dirty_rotten_squatter, seriously STFU, just because you had a run in with a few people you didn't like who happened to like crimethinc. doesn't mean everyone is like them or crimethinc. is like them. you are stereotyping and its pissing me off. going to a convention does not make you and expert on crimethinc. and does not give you the ability to pass judgment. using terms like "crimthinc rail rider" just make you look like a prejudiced jackass
 

dirty_rotten_squatter

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dirty_rotten_squatter, seriously STFU, just because you had a run in with a few people you didn't like who happened to like crimethinc. doesn't mean everyone is like them or crimethinc. is like them. you are stereotyping and its pissing me off. going to a convention does not make you and expert on crimethinc. and does not give you the ability to pass judgment. using terms like "crimthinc rail rider" just make you look like a prejudiced jackass

Well, now I am quoting myself, if you would have taken the time to read the entire post I would not have to..."Now I'm not saying all of them are like this, just the more than enough that I have run into" and I never said that I was "passing judgement" or that I was an expert on crimthinc, I was just merely expessing my views on it as everyone on here is. Now I'm sorry that you are overly sensitive and that I have offended you but you really shouldnt take things to heart like that, it's just my opinion on it, as you have your own.
 

finn

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dirty_rotten_squatter, seriously STFU, just because you had a run in with a few people you didn't like who happened to like crimethinc. doesn't mean everyone is like them or crimethinc. is like them. you are stereotyping and its pissing me off. going to a convention does not make you and expert on crimethinc. and does not give you the ability to pass judgment. using terms like "crimthinc rail rider" just make you look like a prejudiced jackass

What? No hate mail for me? I feel left out! But I think what I am personally stereotyping is not exactly crimethinc, but teenagers who have discovered something new and don't have their heads on straight yet. Whenever I hear people using security culture for a dishonest excuse for just about anything, I think to myself that I'm dealing with some frightened kids. And I'm probably right most of the time, the world is a tough place, and you should be tough if you're not living in a nice legal place. For instance, taking offense to some criticism like that is a bit too sensitive and defense to be tough. Also, if you keep on flying off the handle at every little jab, I'll start assuming your hormones are a bit unbalanced.
 

dirty_rotten_squatter

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I know don't you feel jealous? haha. I'm guessing he was for crimthinc, judging by his profile. Which presents my point even more
 
E

ent_ink

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Well I'm not saying this assessment is correct, or that it's what CrimethInc's intentions are, but I'm not saying you're wrong - what I wanna say is, if you tell people about the tough stuff and the bad parts, that's a turn off.
So if CrimethInc is trying to get people to drop out of the mainstream and maybe even rebel against it, of course they're gonna highlight and polish-up and romanticize the good days and benefits more than the bad days and difficulties.

I can see where you are coming from on that, as a recruitment point of view but I find that just as bad as when the army recruitment posters go up and make no mention of the physical dangers of being in the Armed Forces.

This is going to sound preachy as fuck, but when you try to introduce something to someone fine, list the good points first or if you’re me you like hearing the bad stuff first.

In any case you have to tell them what their in for. I haven’t travelled before, I’d like to though and do I think it will be a gold plated journey to wonderland. Hell no I think I’ll hate it, most of the time will be miserable slogging with soaked clothes and no fucker giving you lift.

That said I look forward to it for the journey itself and the people who I’d travel with. I haven’t met any CrimethInc people and I’ve only read their free stuff on their site which did seem a bit overwritten in places, other than that I can’t comment. As you can see though I have very strong feelings on the telling the truth about what your getting them into side.
 

veggieguy12

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ent_ink said:
...I find that just as bad as when the army recruitment posters go up and make no mention of the physical dangers of being in the Armed Forces.

Yeah, but the difference is that the Army is getting you in so that they can use you; CrimethInc propaganda - or joyful anarchy or whatever you wanna call it - it's getting you out so that you can live your own life fully and without restraints (whether imposed from within or without). They may be similar tactically, but the difference in motivation and goal is enormous and important.

ent_ink said:
I haven’t travelled before, I’d like to though and do I think it will be a gold plated journey to wonderland. Hell no I think I’ll hate it, most of the time will be miserable slogging with soaked clothes and no fucker giving you lift.
...I look forward to it for the journey itself and the people who I’d travel with.

Well that's why I don't think it's such a problem or failure of ethics to not list all the downsides of being out of the mainstream, because you'll survive! You're not gonna give up possessions and working and renting and then suddenly collapse dead and regretful in the wilderness!
If you told a kid that when the training wheels come off, she might lose balance and fall over and scrape a knee or bruise an elbow, and there will be pain and blood - well, do you think the kids is eager to learn to bicycle? It's not lying to the kid or misleading him not to say that walking means falling, etc., it's just part of life. The Army is not part of life, and the first thing people figure about militaries is that they'll get you killed trying to kill others, so of course armies have to mislead to recruit.
Hollaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
 
E

ent_ink

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I wasn't quite trying to draw parallels between Army recruitment and CrimethInc. just saying that the same lack of complete frankness is a problem. If you are making propaganda it does have to take a back seat but it still irks me as I don’t like the idea of the truth being back seated for anything but that’s just me.

In end who wants how much frankness is a matter of individual choice.

Incidentally I cannot get the thought of you jumping out of bushes and screaming "Hollaaa" at passers by out of my head....
 

seke

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I really like Crimethinc actually. Most of them aren't actually rich. It's like the ALF, its decentralized, people can call themselves crimthincers, and may act, say, or do certain things, but that doesn't mean it should rep the whol organization. I like the writing, a bit too romantic at times. But they are doing SOMETHING... idk, I understand the criticisms, but I tend to like them for the most part.
 

seke

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but if you think about the way you put it, it is, in the end it's own govornment by demanding a certain way of living (tribes) or whatever it may be. in the end the human race craves orginised leading. just as anarchists dont want a central govornment it seems the majority does, and by forcing the thoughts of the minority on the majority it eventually causes chaos.... wich leads me to calling anarchy chaos because (believe it or not) anarchists are the minority and if you really think about it it would be just as fucked up to force the idiots who live in a centralised gov to live as anarchists do as it is for anarchists to live as they are. in the end no one wins in politics.


here is the common misconception with anarchism, which is just why i call myself an anti authoritarian. Anarchists do believe in organization. The circle a is actually an a and an o stand for Anarchy IS order, dating back to the Spanish Civil War I think. Theres a good page on wikipedia I think about anarchist beliefs and practices.
 

wartomods

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ive never been into orginized anarchy/activism or anything of the sort. its wasted effort and especially in the anarchist scene they sometimes become what they say they fight against. anarchy is chaos, so how can they orginize a group to fight for chaos? is it not the same as govornment or school systems? joining together for a similar cause? its all BS and word vomit in the end.

exactly my thoughts
 

hassysmacker

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personally these days i lean towards the same kind of anti civ anarchy that veggieguys hinting at.

but i once read a lot of crimethind and i would like to point out that in my opinion crimethinc has done more to radicalize youth than any other faction of anarchists in the last 10-15 years.
 

gangleri

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Agh, I had this long prolific reply typed up and the browser on this computer fucked up. Lets pretend like this is more eloquent than it actually is, because I don't want to type it all again.

Anarchy is not chaos. It is decentralized self-rule of people. It is opposition to hierarchy. The chaos association is the result of a couple centuries of demonization by the media, capitalists, politicians, etc., who see equality as a threat to their positions of power.

It also doesn't mean a lack of organization. In fact, it requires a good deal of organization. The difference is that group decision-making (like consensus) is used to find something that works for all, rather than one person commanding others. People can still live in houses with running water if thats what they decide they want, but they won't have to pay for it anymore. The idea is that the community will exist for the people, individually and collectively, rather than existing as a venue for capitalists to make money.

Back to thread topic: Crimethinc is a distro, not a sect or a clique or anything, so lets not make them more than they are. They put out propaganda and they distribute materials, and some people like them, some don't. Perhaps the ones that don't should be constructive and put out their own ideas rather than shitting on other people who are doing stuff. I think we would all benefit from a greater diversity of viewpoints.

And they do glorify the traveling "lifestyle," this is true. But, uh, don't we all? I don't know about you all, but I post on this forum because I love the shit out of the way I live and I want to hear from other people who live that way too. I'd rather be broke, hungry, cold, tired, stranded, and caked in my own filth than work a square job, have a car, rent, etc., and I'm all down for telling people why. The way I see it, anything that inspires people to buck convention and explore a different way of life is great, and crimethinc is one of these things. I don't agree with everything they write, or some of their stylistic tendencies, but personally, I'm not going to condemn them for it. I've never met these "rich kids" that people seem to think are the driving force behind their writings. The only folks I know who I suspect write some of their stuff or I know write for them (they don't exactly advertise) are grounded in theory, passionate, usually poor, and typically humble, all of which I can respect.

More people traveling does mean more things get blown up, like dumpsters and trains and such. These things, however, are not sustainable in their current form because they are facets of a system which is not sustainable, and pretty fucked up to boot. Besides, what makes them able to be "blown up?" Cops, security guards, bulls. Trains and dumpsters probably won't go away "after the rev," there just probably won't be a fence around them.

There was something else, but I don't remember what it was. I need to go dig in the dirt though.
 

macks

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deleted. bah. sorry for bumping this needlessly, can't figure out how to delete it.
 

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