n00bs...and why we should welcome them

[Beegod Santana]

Aw c'mon, apples and oranges. Not showing someone how to hurt other people by attempting a risky medical procedure is very, very different than not showing how to dumpster dive for fear of less resources for themselves.

If you need to be "shown" how to dumpster dive then you have no place on the road. I'm with finn and widerstand. No one held my hand and introduced me to this lifestyle and the fact that I figured it out on my own doesn't mean I have a responsibility now to show other people how to travel. I don't "owe" any of these newbies anything. If you're fucking starving, but still need someone to show you how to dig through the trash... just fucking die. This isn't an easy lifestyle, and it gets harder when there's a bunch of useless kids wandering around being dicks to the general public because they feel the world "owes" them something. If you can't figure out how to stick your thumb out by the highway... stay the fuck home. HOWEVER, if you've already put yourself out there and have specific questions about locations or trains or what not, I'm happy to help you, cause at least I know you're not totally worthless.

 

[Dameon]

I'm with Beegod on this. Nobody held my hand and showed me how to hold out my thumb, dig in the trash, or find a place to sleep. It's all really basic stuff, and if somebody can't figure it out on their own, they're probably not going to survive out here. Not everybody is suited to life on the road, and all the zines and websites in the world will not suddenly make them into a traveller.

The finer details are nice to have freely available, but at the same time, there's a point where too much detail on some subjects can be a bad thing. A good example was how I heard that somebody mapped out the good dumpsters around Seattle online, and then what happened? Yuppies started dumpster diving for food, loading up trucks, throwing trash everywhere and leaving nothing for the people that actually need that food to survive.

I'll give newbies some tips, direct them toward feeds, but I refuse to hold their hand and show them the basics of survival that should be obvious to anybody with half a brain. Doesn't mean I look down on them, and I don't have a holier than thou attitude, but I refuse to be a baby sitter.

 

[Rash L]

as for this silly dumpster diving debate.... seriously, the most I've ever had to teach someone about diving was to respect your dumpster and clean the shit up when you're done. The whole process of retrieving things from the trash is kind of self explanatory -- toddlers do it naturally before they can even speak 2 word sentences.

 

[hartage]

If you need to be "shown" how to dumpster dive then you have no place on the road. I'm with finn and widerstand. No one held my hand and introduced me to this lifestyle and the fact that I figured it out on my own doesn't mean I have a responsibility now to show other people how to travel. I don't "owe" any of these newbies anything. If you're fucking starving, but still need someone to show you how to dig through the trash... just fucking die. This isn't an easy lifestyle, and it gets harder when there's a bunch of useless kids wandering around being dicks to the general public because they feel the world "owes" them something. If you can't figure out how to stick your thumb out by the highway... stay the fuck home. HOWEVER, if you've already put yourself out there and have specific questions about locations or trains or what not, I'm happy to help you, cause at least I know you're not totally worthless.

This justification isn't too far off from what conservatives, republicans, rich and that sort of ilk use against us. Goes along the same lines of I did it by my bootstraps and if you can't do the same thing too bad so sad just rot your a looser anyways. We don't like it when they use that against us. Why use that kind of mentality against our own ?

It's just a good thing not everyone feels the way you do. If they did only rich people with rich families that can afford college could get an education. Those that don't think like you do and believe in helping those less able. They are the one's that made possible grants and student loans to get an education. That way an education is not limited to families that "did it by their own bootstraps" only. (families that could afford to pay for college out of pocket)

I did it the hard way so somehow I am more deserving or better than you. Isn't that the very elitism that we stand against ?

 

[Rash L]

The finer details are nice to have freely available, but at the same time, there's a point where too much detail on some subjects can be a bad thing. A good example was how I heard that somebody mapped out the good dumpsters around Seattle online, and then what happened? Yuppies started dumpster diving for food, loading up trucks, throwing trash everywhere and leaving nothing for the people that actually need that food to survive.

I'll give newbies some tips, direct them toward feeds, but I refuse to hold their hand and show them the basics of survival that should be obvious to anybody with half a brain. Doesn't mean I look down on them, and I don't have a holier than thou attitude, but I refuse to be a baby sitter.

I'm with ya on this... someone actually mapped that shit out!? and put it ONLINE!?!? oy vey!
there are just certain things that shouldnt be broadcast to EVERYONE indiscriminately... hence the whole thing about personal conversations and advice given by word of mouth. the internet can fuck things up real bad sometimes.... like telling your friends about an awesome squat can be fun, while writing a zine about it and including the address can get the pigs hot on your trail and fuck ALL the fun up. Sometimes I swear people dont think at all...

 

[desaparecido]

You know what happens when we get people scavenging and forgaging? Maybe they see that it's illogical for food to be locked up, and we get more of a free economy when it comes to the basics.

I'm SO SICK of this crustier-than-thou, I've-got-this-many-miles-under-my-belt, pretentious, fucking asshole attitude that some of these kids have. It's not a secret club. Everyone is allowed.

i appreciate the sentiment that it's helpful in the long run but have you ever been to a third world country? (some of our southern neighbors would suffice)
you can't find food in the trash.
and that certainly doesn't make it free at the store.


and i'd like to point out that usually the people who are so frustrated with the "crustier than thou i've got this many miles under my belt" attitude are in fact "n00bs" and they're frustrated that noone gives them respect because they're n00bs, but THAT'S A GOOD THING, because then the people who are only into it for the scene quickly get discouraged and go back home, and the people doing it out of love just keep at it until eventually they become crustier than thou. i intentionally do all of these things you're talking about and make it unwelcoming to n00bs because it weeds out the fakes.:soldier:

 

[hartage]

i intentionally do all of these things you're talking about and make it unwelcoming to n00bs because it weeds out the fakes.:soldier:

The "system" that everyone here seems to supposedly be against does exactly what YOU YOURSELF does. It is designed to weed out the "loosers" and generally anybody that can't hack it in that environment. Some people call that oppression. They consider US loosers, fakes and frauds for not doing what they do.

Why is it ok for you to do to others but not ok when others do it to you ? (not you personally but you as in our group and others as in those in power)

 

[finn]

...On that point though. I believe in regulating those that are allowed to attempt the procedure to those "certified" only. But I still believe the information on the mechanics behind the procedure and the procedure itself should remain free.

There are many justifications for censorship. But ultimately it is censorship.

Hence the internet, books, zines and other publications. I never said it should take up your time to teach individually. Just to make the information available to others and not withhold it given a choice between the two for reasons of self interest.

Your arguments would be stronger if you chose your words a bit more carefully, and the fact that you never affirm your past mistakes don't really help your skills either, since I notice that you just switch your line of argument and disregard your previous statements. Choosing not to freely distribute information is not censorship. Censorship is obstructing someone from saying or showing something.

And there are plenty of material on and off the computers about making knives, if only people showed a little bit of initiative. My point is that if people showed some initiative by doing some of the background research, teaching them to do nearly anything would be a piece of cake (compared to having to teach them everything from the ground up), but this is not often the case. It's in my self interest not to have to spend extra hours teaching them things that they could have learned on their own. If they don't really want it, I don't see why I have to be the one making the effort.

 

[MeatyMax]

While I would have to agree with the whole being open to people who have the conviction to do something, in this case "transient technologies", I would agree that the more easily accessible something is, the harder it is to actually do it. Knowledge sources such as this are great for people who can really use the information to make themselves much safer and more efficient with doing whatever they are doing. But let's not kid ourselves in saying that anyone and their mother have A WHOLE bunch of information in their hands after spending an hour or two in knowledge sources such as this one.
It's kinda like those long metal strip things cops use to unlock doors. Imagine just handing those out to anyone and everyone. Man that would be a lifesaver when you lock your keys in the car and you just have to go get it and you are on your way. But EVERYBODY would have one. I feel this would do more harm then good in the long run.
There's pros and cons to both Elitism and open for everyone.
Just my 2 cents

 

[hartage]

Your arguments would be stronger if you chose your words a bit more carefully, and the fact that you never affirm your past mistakes don't really help your skills either, since I notice that you just switch your line of argument and disregard your previous statements. Choosing not to freely distribute information is not censorship. Censorship is obstructing someone from saying or showing something.

And there are plenty of material on and off the computers about making knives, if only people showed a little bit of initiative. My point is that if people showed some initiative by doing some of the background research, teaching them to do nearly anything would be a piece of cake (compared to having to teach them everything from the ground up), but this is not often the case. It's in my self interest not to have to spend extra hours teaching them things that they could have learned on their own. If they don't really want it, I don't see why I have to be the one making the effort.

We are on different levels here. You are talking about your personal effort on not feeling you have to do one on one. I don't disagree with you. However, people are saying it shouldn't be put on-line or rather on-line resources shouldn't exist for how-to travel. Denial of access to information is censorship. If others are willing to put the effort into creating a website to disseminate information and people are saying it shouldn't exist. That very much fits the description of suppression of information, censorship.

As to switching my arguments or positions. The world is not black and white. Fluid and gray is a better description. Rest assured that in my mind my position is clear. That clarity could be dilute or lost all together in communication and translation is a given. Let me clarify. Actions are and should be regulated. Information however, barring privacy and other concerns should be free and accessible to everyone seeking it. As an example. I know that if I take a knife and slip it between ribs at particular locations depths and angles will cause massive blood loss. The dissemination of that information to myself has not produced a single instance of me doing that. Information that resides in my head with the understanding of the consequences further REINFORCES not doing it. If I didn't know that information I would not know NOT to do it.

In your particular case with medical procedures. What would it serve if you refused to tell me information on a procedure on the silly notion that I will go out and recklessly attempt to perform it on someone else ? The social duty to protect me from myself stopped at 18.

 

[Ravie]

I'll be the asshole here. I don't care. Know what happens when theres alot of us in the same place? people dont give more, its not supply and demand in the homeless community, its people giving/wasting the same amount everyday if not less and it spreads to however many homeless that are in the area. now what happens when there is way more kids asking for money/food/dumpstering than what is being given out? we starve and make barely any to no money. I don't encourage kids with money to spange or to dumpster. The wasted food is going to be dumpstered and not wasted either way, except now we have these kids saying "I'm fighting waste!" even though they could have eaten the food at home or at their moms and given the dumpstered food to someone who hasnt eated in two days. I'm just saying that being that open DOES atrtract oogles and it DOES impact us.

I didnt learn how to travel/dumpster/ride trains/hitch or anything off a website. I had to learn the hard way by going hungry, getting stuck in a town for days, and getting insanely sick. Learning the hard way is what makes us kids smart and strong, without learning these things by yourself or in reality we have a bunch of stupid kids running around acting like they know what their doing because they read a how-to off the internet. know what happens to them? they reach into a garbage can and get poked by a needle, they get the shit beat out of them for spanging in someone elses area, and they get cut in half by tains. Its a dangerous thing to just tell someone "it's okay! this is pretty much how its done! go have fun! your making a difference! it's not that hard!" and this also encourages runaways, kids way too young, and stupid people to go out and get hurt, raped, and the shit beat out of them. I'ts not a joke or a hobby, It's a hard lifestyle and should be respected as one.

Oh and ide like to add, yeah, ive introduced people to the lifestyle, but they had to prove that they could handle it and that they had good reasons for being out here other than they hated their mommy. I take kids that their parents raped/ beat the shit out of them and kids that were just born to travel but need a jumpstart. The only thing I ever teach is how to travel, what not to eat out of a dumpster, respect, how to hold their liquore, and road etiquette. if you need to teach anymore or babysit they arent meant for it and they are stuck in fantacy land.

 

[hartage]

I'll be the asshole here. I don't care. Know what happens when theres alot of us in the same place? people dont give more, its not supply and demand in the homeless community, its people giving/wasting the same amount everyday if not less and it spreads to however many homeless that are in the area. now what happens when there is way more kids asking for money/food/dumpstering than what is being given out? we starve and make barely any to no money. I don't encourage kids with money to spange or to dumpster. The wasted food is going to be dumpstered and not wasted either way, except now we have these kids saying "I'm fighting waste!" even though they could have eaten the food at home or at their moms and given the dumpstered food to someone who hasnt eated in two days. I'm just saying that being that open DOES atrtract oogles and it DOES impact us.

I didnt learn how to travel/dumpster/ride trains/hitch or anything off a website. I had to learn the hard way by going hungry, getting stuck in a town for days, and getting insanely sick. Learning the hard way is what makes us kids smart and strong, without learning these things by yourself or in reality we have a bunch of stupid kids running around acting like they know what their doing because they read a how-to off the internet. know what happens to them? they reach into a garbage can and get poked by a needle, they get the shit beat out of them for spanging in someone elses area, and they get cut in half by tains. Its a dangerous thing to just tell someone "it's okay! this is pretty much how its done! go have fun! your making a difference! it's not that hard!" and this also encourages runaways, kids way too young, and stupid people to go out and get hurt, raped, and the shit beat out of them. I'ts not a joke or a hobby, It's a hard lifestyle and should be respected as one.

Oh and ide like to add, yeah, ive introduced people to the lifestyle, but they had to prove that they could handle it and that they had good reasons for being out here other than they hated their mommy. I take kids that their parents raped/ beat the shit out of them and kids that were just born to travel but need a jumpstart. The only thing I ever teach is how to travel, what not to eat out of a dumpster, respect, how to hold their liquore, and road etiquette. if you need to teach anymore or babysit they arent meant for it and they are stuck in fantacy land.

We mostly agree. The lifestyle will quickly weed out those where neither heart nor necessity exist. I'm just saying leave it to the lifestyle to do the weeding. It would suck to judge someone as not deserving of this "golden knowledge" only to be wrong about it. Plenty of people out there aren't what you think and really could be more hungry than you but just too new to it.

Why is it I even have to stick up for non-judgment and freedom of information of all places HERE AT STP ?

 

[Ravie]

well it's not like we are gods. if one of us is an ass and tells them to go home to mommy and that discourages them and they go home instead of telling the person to fuck off and finding a different person/way to do it, i consider that the lifestyle "weeding out." Our lifestyle is 75% about people and 25% traveling when you think about it. Overcomming the assholes and judgement and fighting to learn is a huge part of it. If you cant do that then wow, your fucked. I'm not saying that I think we should judge people before we know them and deny them. I'm saying after i get to know someone and I can tell they cant handle it or they would be a disgrace to the traveling community, I'm not going to be the one to give them the idea of hopping a train and a week later they die. I'm especially not going to support anything online giving people the idea to do things they cant handle, especially because you dont know who they are. you might post something about "how to hop on the fly" and thats fine for people who understand and respect trains, but it could be ANYONE reading it! a fucking 12 year old could read it and have enough balls to go and try it. my point is to be careful of who learns what you teach. I'm not against helping people out, it's basically my life to be so nice it kills me, but i think about things beyond teaching, like who it will effect and how it will effect. it's not like teaching someone how to paint. paint wont cut off your arm.

 

[IBRRHOBO]

I'll be the asshole here. I don't care. Know what happens when theres alot of us in the same place? people dont give more, its not supply and demand in the homeless community, its people giving/wasting the same amount everyday if not less and it spreads to however many homeless that are in the area. now what happens when there is way more kids asking for money/food/dumpstering than what is being given out? we starve and make barely any to no money. I don't encourage kids with money to spange or to dumpster. The wasted food is going to be dumpstered and not wasted either way, except now we have these kids saying "I'm fighting waste!" even though they could have eaten the food at home or at their moms and given the dumpstered food to someone who hasnt eated in two days. I'm just saying that being that open DOES atrtract oogles and it DOES impact us.

I didnt learn how to travel/dumpster/ride trains/hitch or anything off a website. I had to learn the hard way by going hungry, getting stuck in a town for days, and getting insanely sick. Learning the hard way is what makes us kids smart and strong, without learning these things by yourself or in reality we have a bunch of stupid kids running around acting like they know what their doing because they read a how-to off the internet. know what happens to them? they reach into a garbage can and get poked by a needle, they get the shit beat out of them for spanging in someone elses area, and they get cut in half by tains. Its a dangerous thing to just tell someone "it's okay! this is pretty much how its done! go have fun! your making a difference! it's not that hard!" and this also encourages runaways, kids way too young, and stupid people to go out and get hurt, raped, and the shit beat out of them. I'ts not a joke or a hobby, It's a hard lifestyle and should be respected as one.

Oh and ide like to add, yeah, ive introduced people to the lifestyle, but they had to prove that they could handle it and that they had good reasons for being out here other than they hated their mommy. I take kids that their parents raped/ beat the shit out of them and kids that were just born to travel but need a jumpstart. The only thing I ever teach is how to travel, what not to eat out of a dumpster, respect, how to hold their liquore, and road etiquette. if you need to teach anymore or babysit they arent meant for it and they are stuck in fantacy land.

i like that. and it gives a good perspective on the current age/scene out there! i'm a bit older and there really wasn't anyone to 'teach' anyone when i started. i rode w/some old timers and shit, but they were REAL protective of their 'spots'. you had to prove yourself and then all the money was thrown in a circle we cut w/a knife around the firepit and divied it up.

i don't mind sharing info of the generic nature. '...yeah, the ns pulling out down there usually takes u to charlotte... .' i don't believe specific information should ever be given out (at least pertaining to the rails) to the novice. dumpstering? that's kinda common sense. hit and miss. no brainer to see a mickey d's and know they throw food. watch 'em for rotation and there you have it.

i don't think i am real supportive of spreading ALL information around, though. for example: on my site if you're trying to get detailed information on the Yard Info section (and it is a digital CCG so to speak) you had to of physically met someone in my crew or who is a member of the site. our waystations are the same way. that's kinda where Ravie and i agree: if you tend to throw out all the info to anyone and everyone you're gonna burn out an area.

the other problem w/creating virtual access to all noobs/oogles or whatever the scene term is today is that you do a disservice. finn may appreciate this analogy as he does medicine: when i grew up we had disease parties. when someone got chicken pox all the kids were taken to the house to catch them. why? so that the immune system would develop a resistance to them w/o innoculation. so, then, i feel that newbies should walk blind a bit and get some basics on their own before they are given a bunch of info that has been hard earned. take the freight hopper: give them a ccg and then they wander off to the c/o spot in the yard, don't know that stepping on the knuckle when the train is about to pull could kill them and voila, the body is found w/a ccg on it and the yard is hot for a year.

long story short: basic survival information is common sense. once the newbie proves capable to having the capacity of common sense invite them around the fire to have a chat.

 

[Ravie]

exactly my point guys.

 

[hartage]

I am fine and happy with withholding knowledge from other people for my own for personal gain and for the gain of my trusted friends.

Example: If I put in a shit ton of leg work researching trains, origins and destinations, yards...etc. why the fuck should I give it to anyone? I did all the fucking work and who the fuck are you to me? and why should I care about you enough to spoon feed you information that your to lazy to find out yourself?

It sounds like a bunch of PC bullshit if you ask me.

Agreed, I guess when we do it, it's the right thing to do. When other people do it it's called oppression, secret societies, control, the "system", the "man". When they do it let's burn down buildings, take down radio towers. When we do it it's all good.

Call it PC bullshit if it lets you sleep better at night. Once in a while though try to look at your own actions and see if it is any different than the "bad people's " actions. Next time you claim injustice see if your doing the exact same thing.

The quoted post of yours above sounds a LOT like the justification many conservative republicans use. " who the fuck are you to me? and why should I care " " for my own for personal gain and for the gain of my trusted friends "

Just my 2 cents......

 

[hartage]

So whats the answer then hartage? Do you want everyone to live in a happy world were information is all open and free to everyone at anytime?

Lol, ya being here I did assume you would not be a conservative right wing republican. My bad, I guess you are.


My answer to it already exists. There is freedom of speech protecting people that want to publish information on their own terms.

I was just stating the position that information should be available to everyone. Laws protect those that want to withhold and those that want to publish. I also wanted to point out that we as travelers often do the very same things that we don't like done to us. That simply sucks.

I do understand the issue of limited resources supplying an increasing population if information were more disseminated. But like innocent till proven guilty. I'd much rather not judge someone and based on being wrong deny information that could have really helped them.

We will never live in a happy world. But is it wrong to keep working at it ?

 

[Beegod Santana]

We mostly agree. The lifestyle will quickly weed out those where neither heart nor necessity exist. I'm just saying leave it to the lifestyle to do the weeding. It would suck to judge someone as not deserving of this "golden knowledge" only to be wrong about it. Plenty of people out there aren't what you think and really could be more hungry than you but just too new to it.

Why is it I even have to stick up for non-judgment and freedom of information of all places HERE AT STP ?

Sounds like someone's really fiending for that "golden knowledge." You've only been on the site for 2 months or so, none of your recent posts offer any knowedge about traveling what-so-ever, yet you seem really concerned that not every trainrider on here is offering up everything they know about trains to everybody and their mom. It's " squat the planet" man, not "babysit the planet." FYI, there's a LOT of sensitive info passed between travelers on this site through pms. You my friend, don't sound like a traveler at all however. From reading your posts it doesn't even sound like you've even squatted before. Maybe there's a reason no one's passed on this "golden knowledge" to you yet. My guess would be because you'd have no use for it BECAUSE YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT A TRAVELER.

As far as me being a conservative republican... I don't even know where to begin to describe all the things that are wrong w/ that statement.

Basically it sounds to me like you're very quick to call people assholes for not providing public sensitive info for the site, but it doesn't look like you've contributed much more than bitching about how the world "should" be. Well maybe instead of talking about how the world "should" be and posting political threads, maybe you should write a "meat and potatoes" thread where you actually give out some usual info. Perhaps then one of us will bestow upon you the sacred "golden knowledge" of how to climb a ladder and get on a train.

 

[IBRRHOBO]

bah ha ha! i make the most extreme right wingers look like bleeding heart liberals! ach! properly speaking i'm a libertarian though. i think ALL government programs are shit, but that's for another thread. i also don't really care what anyone's political class is; probably a reason matt and others tolerate me on here. now i debate anarchy here (the ideology) as that's kinda the whole reason for the site (an anarchistic point-of-view forum) the way i understand matt laying it out (moderator correct me if i'm wrong). politics are like religion; both are best kept at home while on a date, 'eh?

as to hartage's desire to obtain (or have samesaid obtainable for the masses) the inner sanctum's knowledge (i like the metaphor there), i am concerned. truth is blinding in its brilliance to the masses (forget where i got that from, but don't attribute it to me). the analogy is this: how can one TRULY appreciate say sexual intercourse if one has not known love? ah, miopicly we could say that sex satiates the physiological; however, both appreciation and love are (even when juxtaposed) metaphysical. so to, then, the relationship between the 'carnal' information (i.e.; the train is here or there and goes here or there) and the metaphysical (i.e.; the dissemination of compartmentalized, 'secret' information (here's when you catch it, your liquor store is there, you can safely camp here, the rr freqs are thus and thus) to those rising above the mere rank and file).

is information a commodity? abso-fucking-lutely! is freight hopping (as opposed to say hitchiking) a fraternity/sorority? yup. and in that no touchy-feely, save-a-ho mentality is ever gonna change that. the primary reason is that there are FAR too many stupid kids w/tattoos who think that because they haven't showered for a week, have scabbies, a black anarchy patch or what-the-fuck ever, they are owed for being derelicts! now there's kids who fit those descriptions who are pretty responsible (had a few here at my waystation). still, the information is not readily passed out.

i am always concerned about those who querry sensitive information. old alarm bells ring from my days in intelligence.

 

[hartage]

Sounds like someone's really fiending for that "golden knowledge." You've only been on the site for 2 months or so, none of your recent posts offer any knowedge about traveling what-so-ever, yet you seem really concerned that not every trainrider on here is offering up everything they know about trains to everybody and their mom. It's " squat the planet" man, not "babysit the planet." FYI, there's a LOT of sensitive info passed between travelers on this site through pms. You my friend, don't sound like a traveler at all however. From reading your posts it doesn't even sound like you've even squatted before. Maybe there's a reason no one's passed on this "golden knowledge" to you yet. My guess would be because you'd have no use for it BECAUSE YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY NOT A TRAVELER.

As far as me being a conservative republican... I don't even know where to begin to describe all the things that are wrong w/ that statement.

Basically it sounds to me like you're very quick to call people assholes for not providing public sensitive info for the site, but it doesn't look like you've contributed much more than bitching about how the world "should" be. Well maybe instead of talking about how the world "should" be and posting political threads, maybe you should write a "meat and potatoes" thread where you actually give out some usual info. Perhaps then one of us will bestow upon you the sacred "golden knowledge" of how to climb a ladder and get on a train.

Ahh.... from the debated subject to personal attacks on my integrity now eh ? Fantastic ! That didn't take you long at all did it ? Eh, not a big surprise.

Two months or so on here.... Then you mention giving out usual info.... What is this ? Are we whipping it out now and comparing penis length ? Boy you sure got your feathers ruffled. Points with zero basis in truth are shrugged off without a second thought. Points that hit a nerve though.... only does so if there is a truth in there to hit.

Alright, let me satisfy your penis length fetish. I have stated openly in chat, PM's and posts what my situation is. That I got in a car wreck. That my life was turned upside down and that the appeal of the freedom of traveling brought me here. I've said openly to many people here that I have not ridden rails, flown signs, dumpster dived or even hitch hiked. That I'm here to learn from everyone before I set off on my own next year after I heal from my injuries and settle legal issues.

CONGRATULATIONS CAPTAIN OBVIOUS ! FOR CLARIFYING WHAT I'VE BEEN TELLING PEOPLE HERE THE WHOLE TIME I'VE BEEN HERE

So where does this go now ? We turn this personal I hunt you down you hunt me down ? My interest was to stick up for freedom of information and not be judgmental towards others. I'm not sinking to your level. If it makes you happy and satisfies your penis length issues I'll bow and admit.... You have more experience than my zero experience in everything train related, dumpster related, etc. I don't steal, I'm clean, I don't drink, I don't smoke pot or smoke, I don't abuse any drugs. Oh yeah and I almost forgot, I hang out with the rainbow family (hippies) also. There, are you all happy now ? Want a lollipop too ?

Now I'll tell you what I am. I'm the guy that didn't care if you are black, white, yellow or purple. I don't give a shit if someone is rich or broke. I don't care if your a punk, redneck, or whatever group you identify with. I don't care if you know less than I do or more than I do, smarter or not. As long as you treat me well I will treat you well.

What do you know ? How to be an elitist ? Personal attacks when someone disagrees with you ? When a thread breaks down into personal attacks that's my cue to exit stage left.