What percentage of people do the Black Bear Ranch rules work for?

[AnOldHope]

We should all get over it and move on to more useful matters, don't you guys think?

Which, speaking of, OP, do you need any assistance doing anything with your build you have going? I am currently looking around for projects that could be one day considered a home, so long as some basic ideological tenets are met. (basically simple communism/anarchism)

The next build will be the prototype water catcher, I'll have the money for the materials in about two weeks (250 gallon tote, some lumber and the tarp). I'd be willing to put $100 and free camping on my land if somebody was interested in helping (ride with me in my F250 to get the tote and lumber, positioning the tote, small wooden structure to lift the far side of the tote).

You'll have to educate me on simple communism/anarchism, but a couple things that might be issues:

a) I don't charge people to camp on my land, but it needs to be understood its my land. If somebody gets violent, needlessly aggressive, etc, they'd need to go. I know anarchists aren't big on private property, but I am. Its my land, I don't give orders, I pay cash for honest labor assistance, but if I say somebody needs to go, they need to go.

b) I'm not looking to violently fight the government, I believe in peaceful non-violent reform, or if necessary, to stay out in the wastelands if things collapse and peek my head out if/when there's some semblance of order. If you have or want to violently fight the govt, the cops, or anyone else, this isn't the place.

c) Politically I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter, I think Northern Europe has the right idea, I think our current administration is on a racist and authoritarian fascist path.

d) I believe in taking turns with the music and the movies. I also believe that on two acres, if somebody wants to go to their own space and do their own shit, that's fine with me. But if your shit interferes with somebody else's shit (playing loud music so others can't sleep, etc), you'd need to get some headphones or roll out.

e) I have no problem with LGBT, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever, as long as you can coexist peacefully with others.

f) No hard drugs.

g) I have a dog, she's not a year old yet, and she's very emotionally needy, she jumps up, wants to sit in your lap, etc. When I have guests I keep her in the fenced section around my RV.

Main problem is the roads, they're dogshit, I've had to have the exhaust on my truck welded back up twice. If you have a high clearance vehicle with four wheel drive, you should be okay. If you don't have a truck, I can ride you in from Kingman, and when you go, I"ll give you a ride back up to Kingman.

If somebody could work with the above and no problems develop, I'd have no problem with letting such a person camp as long as they need on my land, and I've been looking at getting a cheap travel trailer for guests, but that's a month or two out.

Thanks.

 

[AnOldHope]

anoldhope. is your place easy to get in and out of, like close to a highway?

I'm only two miles from a highway, but the washes out here fuck the roads to shit. I've had to have the exhaust on my truck welded back up twice. If you don't have a vehicle, I can pick you up in Kingman or other place nearby. To get to the highway by vehicle is a circuitous route through really shit roads, about twenty minutes of bumping around like fucking a two stroke engine with bathtub whiskey for gas.

To hike in from the frontage road by foot is an hour or less.

 

[DrewSTNY]

Sounds like an awesome place. Looking forward to hearing more about how you develop it to your tastes.

Maybe someday we will get it that way.

 

[AnOldHope]

Sounds like an awesome place. Looking forward to hearing more about how you develop it to your tastes.

Maybe someday we will get it that way.

Thanks. The views are nice. Summers are wicked vicious hot, and the winters can have overnight lows below freezing but not by much. I've got the power shed up (still need to seal the roof), and I"ve put a little metal camp stove in there (need to cut out the hole for the chimney, so I'll do that before next winter).

For summers, an array of USB fans keep reasonably cool, but for those 120F spikes, its often just sleeping under the fans from 10:00am to 3:00 pm (unless you were born on Tattooine and you dig that shit, more power to you).

Its coming together, slowly. Upgraded the water storage and added a baby fridge today. Lost a 180 watt panel to wind last week, but still have 1,160 watts. Just added 200 amp hours of battery bank, waiting on some connecting wires to come in.

Found a $1,200 trailer up in Vegas my ex was going to bring down for me, but somebody ninja'd me and grabbed it. Then found a $100 baby travel trailer up in Golden Valley, but they never called me back.

I don't suppose it will ever be exactly how I want it (I had planned to have the outdoor theater up by now, going to build a 8ft x 16ft concrete block wall, paint it gloss white, get a $500 digital projector to mount on the roof of the power shed inside a cupola, and a bunch of old recliners and sofas for the seats, watch movies under the night sky). That keeps getting pushed out.

Then rabbits, then chickens, then goats, and if the water catchers work, adopt a burro from the state.

We'll see. I'll know by next year how much of that I'll have made into reality.

 

[deleted user]

The next build will be the prototype water catcher, I'll have the money for the materials in about two weeks (250 gallon tote, some lumber and the tarp). I'd be willing to put $100 and free camping on my land if somebody was interested in helping (ride with me in my F250 to get the tote and lumber, positioning the tote, small wooden structure to lift the far side of the tote).

You'll have to educate me on simple communism/anarchism, but a couple things that might be issues:

a) I don't charge people to camp on my land, but it needs to be understood its my land. If somebody gets violent, needlessly aggressive, etc, they'd need to go. I know anarchists aren't big on private property, but I am. Its my land, I don't give orders, I pay cash for honest labor assistance, but if I say somebody needs to go, they need to go.

b) I'm not looking to violently fight the government, I believe in peaceful non-violent reform, or if necessary, to stay out in the wastelands if things collapse and peek my head out if/when there's some semblance of order. If you have or want to violently fight the govt, the cops, or anyone else, this isn't the place.

c) Politically I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter, I think Northern Europe has the right idea, I think our current administration is on a racist and authoritarian fascist path.

d) I believe in taking turns with the music and the movies. I also believe that on two acres, if somebody wants to go to their own space and do their own shit, that's fine with me. But if your shit interferes with somebody else's shit (playing loud music so others can't sleep, etc), you'd need to get some headphones or roll out.

e) I have no problem with LGBT, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever, as long as you can coexist peacefully with others.

f) No hard drugs.

g) I have a dog, she's not a year old yet, and she's very emotionally needy, she jumps up, wants to sit in your lap, etc. When I have guests I keep her in the fenced section around my RV.

Main problem is the roads, they're dogshit, I've had to have the exhaust on my truck welded back up twice. If you have a high clearance vehicle with four wheel drive, you should be okay. If you don't have a truck, I can ride you in from Kingman, and when you go, I"ll give you a ride back up to Kingman.

If somebody could work with the above and no problems develop, I'd have no problem with letting such a person camp as long as they need on my land, and I've been looking at getting a cheap travel trailer for guests, but that's a month or two out.

Thanks.

My friend, you described EXACTLY what I am looking for. (and to be honest, I use the terms as scapegoats, since I don't know how to describe what I want out of it; basic liberties, in essence.)
Which, actually, not that I am too focused on it anymore (though still interested), I was feelin' the Bern. I tend to vote for the more libertarian-esque ideals. I am very mellow about everything, I suppose. I understand that there is time for work, time for play, and time for rest.

 

[RobHASboots]

♧

 

[black]

@AnOldHope i am very interested in your project. good on ya.

i would love begin something akin to that with An-Com values as a generally accepted tenet, which basically just means, share food, work hard, make decisions only together, and protect eachother, all while utilizing money only when essential to continue the community's existence

 

[Beegod Santana]

I've lived in a bunch of off the grid spots in my life with as many as 20 other people to as little as none. In my experience, having a rule list is only necessary when you have more than 5 people and really only necessary if at least one of those people isn't pulling their end. Most people I know who've spent extended periods of time off the grid wouldn't be too put off by that list, but the whole no weed, guns or alcohol is definitely gonna keep some people away. A lot of those people you probably don't want out there, but some of them are also gonna be extremely effective people... so your call. Also, the rules are absolutely meaningless unless someone's willing to be the land nazi and shove em down everybody's throat. That person also has to be someone who seems like they're willing to act to defend their land, otherwise eventually some vampire is just gonna suck you dry.

 

[Billy Cougar White]

Another good commune to research for inspiration is "total loss farm" they started in the mid 60s. And are still around, including 2 original members. They wrote a book back in the 70s called "home cooking, life on total loss farm"

 

[AnOldHope]

@AnOldHope i am very interested in your project. good on ya.

i would love begin something akin to that with An-Com values as a generally accepted tenet, which basically just means, share food, work hard, make decisions only together, and protect eachother, all while utilizing money only when essential to continue the community's existence

Unfortunately there are some incompatibilities with my project with An-Com values, but I can see where a group that all shared those and pursued it that way could be successful (although if they want to move towards complete self sufficiency, my area likely lacks the water for crops to be completely self sufficient, I'll have enough (by haul and/or catcher) for rabbits, chickens, and a few goats, but probably not crops)

 

[AnOldHope]

I've lived in a bunch of off the grid spots in my life with as many as 20 other people to as little as none. In my experience, having a rule list is only necessary when you have more than 5 people and really only necessary if at least one of those people isn't pulling their end. Most people I know who've spent extended periods of time off the grid wouldn't be too put off by that list, but the whole no weed, guns or alcohol is definitely gonna keep some people away. A lot of those people you probably don't want out there, but some of them are also gonna be extremely effective people... so your call. Also, the rules are absolutely meaningless unless someone's willing to be the land nazi and shove em down everybody's throat. That person also has to be someone who seems like they're willing to act to defend their land, otherwise eventually some vampire is just gonna suck you dry.

Yeah, I think one of the big limiters is going to be that any who come would be guests and would need to leave without argument if I asked them to, whether they agree with my reason or not, .and if they didn't the cops would have to come out. To avoid that necessity, it would have to be understood up front that if I ask somebody to go, they gotta go. ("Kick rocks" is the phrase I've heard).

That fact alone would likely dissuade as much as 90% or more of people, but with all the people out there, I'm hoping to find some who can live with that.

I guess the setup would be more in the direction of a quasi-libertarian co-op, each has their own things, their own money, etc, but to minimize mutual expenses we cooperate in a way that benefits both, which in some instances will involve money and be quantifiable (for example, I'd pay if people were doing labor that improves the land, which is solely mine, and thus they'd deserve something in exchange. Similarly if somebody helped with the animals, they could sell some of the goats milk to local soap making companies, etc.)

ic.org seems to have taken a permashit on its "seeking commune" ads, and they were never very prolific, I'm still trying to figure out how to get the word out.

I don't mind weed, an AZ medical card is fairly straightforward to get, and as far as alcohol, as long as the person has it under control (doesn't get loud, belligerent, aggressive, sick, etc due to drinking, doesn't become dangerously ill or irrational if they can't get it, etc) I'd have no problem with it.

This idea of "extremely effective people" is compelling to me, is it okay to ask you to elaborate?

 

[Beegod Santana]

I mean people who already have the skills to make it off the grid and aren't afraid to put em to use. People with farming, mechanical and electrical experience who aren't gonna start a forest fire and know how to set the solar back up after a storm. Sure there's people out there like that who are sober and hate guns, but most that I've met over the years tend to love a beer, a joint, or to shoot off a few rounds in the evening. I would never encourage you to host someone who's chasing self destruction however.

 

[creature]

This is a good thread..
hella lot more info & backgreound than i evere got back in '09 or '10..

@Sirius , thank you.
yer a fucking pain, but yer beautriufull & hardcore..

all i ever got back then was a dead webpage & a refusal to answer some easy fucking questionms about how to get the fuck in..

interestingly, this correlates to *other* 'anarcho-primative' crap that i've both run across & actually been part of..

when you live in a hand to mouth enviornment.. where chopping wood for a -15 degree winter is required a few months ahead of time, or trying to grow stuff in crappy soil to sell for a couple of months before frost kills everything, & keep the goddamned coyotes away from the chickens & turkeys..

that's hard crap..

probably harder ar BB, than where i've been, actually..

but i understand..

nonetheless, a lot of shit goes soutrh because the follks who hate rules way too often hate self-discipline, too..

& self-discipline is a way harder & much different animal than "having the balls to deal with what you are given"..

self discipline is what ultimatelty makes communiality possible, hence my bitching on the other thread..

sounds like history & adventure, out there..
maybe i'll give it another shot..

if you'll have me, if/when the potential path becomes...

pecans,

C

 

[dumpster harpy]

Private property. Bernie Sanders. Libertarian. Calling the cops.

What?