What percentage of people do the Black Bear Ranch rules work for?

[Shwillam]

http://blackbearranch.org Has not been active since 2009. I believe the last time it was even truly acknowledged was 2012.
There was a VERY different group of people there at that time.
The ideologies at the ranch have changed many times since its start.
There have even been The Black Panthers leaders there who created a para-military camp, baby worshiping Christian cults, and a variety of radical leftist thinkers that have occupied the free land.

 

[DrewSTNY]

People should learn how to communicate.

Do – Be welcoming, peaceful, kind and friendly to everyone, animals and land.
Don’t – Be cruel, abusive or violent to anyone, animals or land
Don’t – Endanger or harm any fruit trees, structures or land.
Don’t – leave trash, we have a strict policy on “bring it in bring it out”, This includes vehicles!
Don’t – touch the systems, electrical, water etc. without a resident’s assistance
Do – Learn about fire safety (see fire safety guide)
Don’t – Make fires without resident permission.
Do – Get permission from the community, beneficiaries and a trustee, before adding or destroying structures.
Don’t – add or destroy any structures without going through a process which includes residents, beneficiaries and trustees
Don’t – take away or bring animals onto the land without going through an acceptance process from the residents, beneficiaries and trustees.
Don’t – grow or distribute any form of illegal drugs; marijuana, opiates, meth etc.
Don’t– have disruptive addictive habits; alcoholism, drug addictions etc.
Don’t – Bring your gun.
Do – Live communally.
Do- Must maintain restaurant like hygiene in all food, shower and outhouse areas.
Don’t- Hunt on property.
Don’t – be prejudice of race, color, creed, age , or sexual
preference.

I could handle something like -

Welcome to hour home, we are happy that you are here; however, please, respect the property and the residents who live here. At BBR we believe that all things deserve kindness and respect. This includes our human residents as well as our non-human residents, the beautiful gardens, orchars and forest. To make your stay more enjoyable, please abide by the following guidelines:

• Treat each other with love and repect regardless of race, color, creed, sexual preference or expression
• This is an intentional community, we operate with consensus. Please, talk to us about your great ideas for buildings, gardens, or other structures so that we can decide as a group the best way forward.
• Before building any fires, please be sure to check with one of the stewards who will be happy to show you when and where it is appropriate to have a fire on the property. We are all fire bugs at heart; however, we want to make sure that everyone has a safe and enjoyable experience.
• Please, conserve water and electricity. If you wish to learn more about the systems we have built, see one of the stewards and they will be happy to give you a tour if they are able.
• We love all animals and want them around so that we can learn from them. We do not allow hunting on the property.
• We really love our furry companions and yours too; however, before bringing in new non-human residents, they need to be trained properly. If you cannot live without your furry companion, you must keep them leashed at all times for their safety as well as the safety of the other animals on the property.
• We love tools - who doesn't - however, please do not bring any guns on to the property.
• We love to party, but many of us have overcome addictions. Please, refrain from bringing drugs and alcohol onto the property.
• We love to eat good food, please keep the kitchen, dining room, and bathrooms clean. If you notice an area is dirty, please lend a hand and clean it up.

The whole DO/DON'T list makes me feel like I'm in church or something.

 

[Shwillam]

^Your version is honestly how it operates most of the time

 

[AnOldHope]

People should learn how to communicate.



I could handle something like -

Welcome to hour home, we are happy that you are here; however, please, respect the property and the residents who live here. At BBR we believe that all things deserve kindness and respect. This includes our human residents as well as our non-human residents, the beautiful gardens, orchars and forest. To make your stay more enjoyable, please abide by the following guidelines:

• Treat each other with love and repect regardless of race, color, creed, sexual preference or expression
• This is an intentional community, we operate with consensus. Please, talk to us about your great ideas for buildings, gardens, or other structures so that we can decide as a group the best way forward.
• Before building any fires, please be sure to check with one of the stewards who will be happy to show you when and where it is appropriate to have a fire on the property. We are all fire bugs at heart; however, we want to make sure that everyone has a safe and enjoyable experience.
• Please, conserve water and electricity. If you wish to learn more about the systems we have built, see one of the stewards and they will be happy to give you a tour if they are able.
• We love all animals and want them around so that we can learn from them. We do not allow hunting on the property.
• We really love our furry companions and yours too; however, before bringing in new non-human residents, they need to be trained properly. If you cannot live without your furry companion, you must keep them leashed at all times for their safety as well as the safety of the other animals on the property.
• We love tools - who doesn't - however, please do not bring any guns on to the property.
• We love to party, but many of us have overcome addictions. Please, refrain from bringing drugs and alcohol onto the property.
• We love to eat good food, please keep the kitchen, dining room, and bathrooms clean. If you notice an area is dirty, please lend a hand and clean it up.

The whole DO/DON'T list makes me feel like I'm in church or something.

What do they do when someone plays with the solar or water systems anyway, declines to follow the suggestions, and doesn't agree or behave in accordance with the consensus?

What if somebody gets really drunk, continues to get really drunk, starts fires because they believe the know how and don't think anyone has the right to tell them otherwise, etc?

It seems like the people who would understand the above rules wouldn't really need a list of them.

I do find it interesting that the turnover at Black Bear (at least over the course of its existence) seems very high. If I'm following, the current model has existed about three years, and with about 6 or so ongoing residents?

I wonder why the previous incarnations didn't continue on. Of course, life changes, nature changes, etc, but I would like to find and learn about a model that has lasted decades in a stable and ongoing form.

 

[DrewSTNY]

^Your version is honestly how it operates most of the time

That's what I was hoping. I checked the website and found the statement about how many chickens, rabbits, and other animals they ahve lost over the years because of visitors' pets and figured that was the reason behind some of the statements.

I know people tend toward brief statements because of whatever pressures they are under at the time, but good, positive expectations are way better than a list of DON'Ts.

I have never really considered myself an anarchist (even though I really hate the government and the banks), but a lot of what I am reading on the site resonates. Being a child of the 70's though, the idea of a commune sounds too much like hippie talk. I guess I got that from my parents. The new "intentional community" has a better ring to me even if it is describing the same thing.

 

[AnOldHope]

http://blackbearranch.org Has not been active since 2009. I believe the last time it was even truly acknowledged was 2012.
There was a VERY different group of people there at that time.
The ideologies at the ranch have changed many times since its start.
There have even been The Black Panthers leaders there who created a para-military camp, baby worshiping Christian cults, and a variety of radical leftist thinkers that have occupied the free land.

I wonder how hard it would be to find the people from 2009.

Although what would be really cool would be to host some Black Panthers.

"Hey, folks. So, remember when you were trying to tell everyone that the government was deliberately running drugs and using the war on drugs to destroy the black community and everybody laughed? Now that its more or less understood that the government actually did and does do that, I'd just like to say.....shit, sorry 'bout that."

 

[DrewSTNY]

What do they do when someone plays with the solar or water systems anyway, declines to follow the suggestions, and doesn't agree or behave in accordance with the consensus?

What if somebody gets really drunk, continues to get really drunk, starts fires because they believe the know how and don't think anyone has the right to tell them otherwise, etc?

It seems like the people who would understand the above rules wouldn't really need a list of them.

I do find it interesting that the turnover at Black Bear (at least over the course of its existence) seems very high. If I'm following, the current model has existed about three years, and with about 6 or so ongoing residents?

I wonder why the previous incarnations didn't continue on. Of course, life changes, nature changes, etc, but I would like to find and learn about a model that has lasted decades in a stable and ongoing form.

The answers to your questions lie in being intentional about the community. If someone is doing those things, everyone from the community has a hand in dealing with them, even if it means taking them off the property.

Of course, removal is not the first step, but the last if you are really trying to live as a community/commune. By living with the intention to be a community, you believe that you are each connected to one other as well as the land you are living on. You can not ignore someone's bad behavior because it could serious injure or kill that person or everyone in the commune.

 

[Shwillam]

What do they do when someone plays with the solar or water systems anyway, declines to follow the suggestions, and doesn't agree or behave in accordance with the consensus?

What if somebody gets really drunk, continues to get really drunk, starts fires because they believe the know how and don't think anyone has the right to tell them otherwise, etc?

It seems like the people who would understand the above rules wouldn't really need a list of them.

I do find it interesting that the turnover at Black Bear (at least over the course of its existence) seems very high. If I'm following, the current model has existed about three years, and with about 6 or so ongoing residents?

I wonder why the previous incarnations didn't continue on. Of course, life changes, nature changes, etc, but I would like to find and learn about a model that has lasted decades in a stable and ongoing form.

They are asked to leave. The idea is they rely on the basic emotion that if everyone in the community is actively asking you to leave, they hardly if ever have to impose actual authority or physical force to encourage someone to leave, upholding anarchist philosophy and still having a safe, stable, successful community.

Refer to paragraph 1.

That's not necessarily true, many people have no idea what it's like to live in a place that you are truly off the grid as much as I believe possible in the United States. Having a starting point in understanding the basics of how a community so different than typical society works was very helpful for me.

Of course it is, most people (including myself) couldn't make it there the first time around. I still don't plan on wintering there this second time around living there. It's the hardest I've ever worked in my life. There's a FUCK ton to do just to survive. You go hungry, cold, lonely, isolated. Black Bear is no fucking joke, and that's why when the other guy called it an "amusement park" made such an impact on me. It's a hardcore place. But goddamn, it's fucking paradise.

 

[Shwillam]

I wonder how hard it would be to find the people from 2009.

Although what would be really cool would be to host some Black Panthers.

"Hey, folks. So, remember when you were trying to tell everyone that the government was deliberately running drugs and using the war on drugs to destroy the black community and everybody laughed? Now that its more or less understood that the government actually did and does do that, I'd just like to say.....shit, sorry 'bout that."

Nigh and Scott have been there for years.

It actually ended very very badly. The Panthers were asked to leave, who responded by sticking a rifle in one of the members faces. No one got hurt and they left the next day.

 

[AnOldHope]

They are asked to leave. The idea is they rely on the basic emotion that if everyone in the community is actively asking you to leave, they hardly if ever have to impose actual authority or physical force to encourage someone to leave, upholding anarchist philosophy and still having a safe, stable, successful community.

Refer to paragraph 1.

That's not necessarily true, many people have no idea what it's like to live in a place that you are truly off the grid as much as I believe possible in the United States. Having a starting point in understanding the basics of how a community so different than typical society works was very helpful for me.

Of course it is, most people (including myself) couldn't make it there the first time around. I still don't plan on wintering there this second time around living there. It's the hardest I've ever worked in my life. There's a FUCK ton to do just to survive. You go hungry, cold, lonely, isolated. Black Bear is no fucking joke, and that's why when the other guy called it an "amusement park" made such an impact on me. It's a hardcore place. But goddamn, it's fucking paradise.

I'm looking for a model with a different kind of stability, it seems that Black Bear has a lot of turnover. If its current incarnation of three years fits some people, I think that's great, but what drew me to the local was the idea that it had continued on longer than that, and with more than five or six people.

There are a lot of different ideas of community, and I don't think there's any one that fits all people. I understand a lot of people have their own view of what stability and community is, and for any given philosophy there will be as many interpretations as there are people.

I'll try to find the folks from '09 and hear their story, maybe they're out there on the interwebs somewhere.

Thanks!

 

[AnOldHope]

Nigh and Scott have been there for years.

It actually ended very very badly. The Panthers were asked to leave, who responded by sticking a rifle in one of the members faces. No one got hurt and they left the next day.

How many years? Ten or more?

 

[Shwillam]

I think that's natural for any place that attracts nomads. That's the wonderful thing about communities. You can enter and leave them as you wish, while societies and nations tend to dominate and regulate the way vast populations are operated.

Write the ranch, I'll PM you the currently active PO box, the one listed on the website is not correct.
There are people that have been there since 2008 living there currently

 

[AnOldHope]

I think that's natural for any place that attracts nomads. That's the wonderful thing about communities. You can enter and leave them as you wish, while societies and nations tend to dominate and regulate the way vast populations are operated.

Write the ranch, I'll PM you the currently active PO box, the one listed on the website is not correct.
There are people that have been there since 2008 living there currently

Hm, nobody before that?

 

[Shwillam]

Not that I know of at the moment

 

[AnOldHope]

Not that I know of at the moment

Cool, thanks anyway.

 

[A New Name]

What do they do when someone plays with the solar or water systems anyway, declines to follow the suggestions, and doesn't agree or behave in accordance with the consensus?

What if somebody gets really drunk, continues to get really drunk, starts fires because they believe the know how and don't think anyone has the right to tell them otherwise, etc?

It seems like the people who would understand the above rules wouldn't really need a list of them.

I do find it interesting that the turnover at Black Bear (at least over the course of its existence) seems very high. If I'm following, the current model has existed about three years, and with about 6 or so ongoing residents?

I wonder why the previous incarnations didn't continue on. Of course, life changes, nature changes, etc, but I would like to find and learn about a model that has lasted decades in a stable and ongoing form.

http://bussanavecchia.free.fr/
Europe does it better. (harhar)

 

[todd]

To be honest your opinion seems kinda unfair and your post makes a lot of generalizations that don't seem to be based on any facts. Also, you haven't even been there, yet you sure do make a lot of assumptions...

I thought I was giving my opinion to the OP's question.. " What percentage of people do the Black Bear Ranch rules work for?" What do you all think? That was the OP's reason for starting the thread right?

so I read whats posted in the first thread... check the website hes posted... and reply to his question. I told him what I think.. and get bashed for it.
his question wasn't * what does everyone "KNOW" about this place. it was "THINK"


Meh, it might be a nice place to visit. or not, who knows. I believe the theory is admirable and a lot can be learned if one wants to try to do the same thing on their own place.

 

[Matt Derrick]

I thought I was giving my opinion to the OP's question.. " What percentage of people do the Black Bear Ranch rules work for?" What do you all think? That was the OP's reason for starting the thread right?

Fair enough, but that still doesn't change that you're making a lot of assumptions in your posts without ever having been there.

 

[deleted user]

We should all get over it and move on to more useful matters, don't you guys think?

Which, speaking of, OP, do you need any assistance doing anything with your build you have going? I am currently looking around for projects that could be one day considered a home, so long as some basic ideological tenets are met. (basically simple communism/anarchism)

 

[todd]

anoldhope. is your place easy to get in and out of, like close to a highway?