What percentage of people do the Black Bear Ranch rules work for?

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AnOldHope

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So, I've been making a bit of progress on the Desert Temple quasi-Commune I'm building, got some more solar and structure up, will be adding more water capacity next month.

Black Bear Ranch seems to have successful stayed up for several years, in a harsher environment than I'm in.

http://blackbearranch.org/

On their page, they have some "Traditional Guidelines", but if I'm reading their phrasing correctly, essentially if you don't follow them, you can't stay (or maybe can't become a resident, not sure where the line is drawn).

They are:

Do – Be welcoming, peaceful, kind and friendly to everyone, animals
and land.
Don’t – Be cruel, abusive or violent to anyone, animals or land
Don’t – Endanger or harm any fruit trees, structures or land.
Don’t – leave trash, we have a strict policy on “bring it in
bring it out”, This includes vehicles!
Don’t – touch the systems, electrical, water etc. without a
resident’s assistance
Do – Learn about fire safety (see fire safety guide)
Don’t – Make fires without resident permission.
Do – Get permission from the community, beneficiaries and a trustee,
before adding or destroying structures.
Don’t – add or destroy any structures without going through a
process which includes residents, beneficiaries and trustees
Don’t – take away or bring animals onto the land without going
through an acceptance process from the residents, beneficiaries and
trustees.
Don’t – grow or distribute any form of illegal drugs; marijuana,
opiates, meth etc.
Don’t– have disruptive addictive habits; alcoholism, drug
addictions etc.
Don’t – Bring your gun.
Do – Live communally.
Do- Must maintain restaurant like hygiene in all food, shower and
outhouse areas.
Don’t- Hunt on property.
Don’t – be prejudice of race, color, creed, age , or sexual
preference.


A few of them require resident permission to start a fire, or touch their infrastructure systems. I can understand that, those systems are important and vulnerable to mishandling.

I also note they don't allow disruptive addictive habits (alcohol, etc). It would seem the residents decide what is considered "disruptive".

They also don't permit marijuana, that would be something I would want to run differently. I would have the rule "don't sell marijuana", but you could give it to someone who needs it or share.

They also have rules about having a gun, which also seem understandable, although I wouldn't be comfortable taking someone else's weapon into possession while they were at the Temple, I would just ask them to not have it if I did not feel comfortable with them having the weapon.

Black Bear also requires a $3 monetary contribution to stay there. I think I would only require that if the person has the means (some form of passive income, retirement, disability, etc).

What do you all think?
 

todd

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sounds like any other place you have to pay to be at.. too many dam rules and people you have to ask permission to do anything
 
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A

AnOldHope

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sounds like any other place you have to pay to be at.. too many dam rules and people you have to ask permission to do anything

Is the pay the bigger issue, or the rules about fire building or structure alteration?

What are some of the things you'd want to do there that the rules would prevent?
 

todd

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I wouldn't want to do anything there, it doesn't sound like my kind of place. too many people. im all for the off grid lifestyle, or farming/ranching, but I've found when more then about 5-10 people come together in an environment long term, trouble happens.
I understand the rules are there because of the amount of people that show up, and that's the reason I wont be there. its more of an organized amusement park than a homestead.
 
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AnOldHope

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I wouldn't want to do anything there, it doesn't sound like my kind of place. too many people. im all for the off grid lifestyle, or farming/ranching, but I've found when more then about 5-10 people come together in an environment long term, trouble happens.
I understand the rules are there because of the amount of people that show up, and that's the reason I wont be there. its more of an organized amusement park than a homestead.

By trouble, do you mean discord, or by contrast excessive hierarchy? (or both?)

My spot only has two acres, and since my model intends to use trailers/rv/5th-wheels, each guest habitat would only have about 1/8th acre. 1/2 acre is set aside for water catchers and 1/2 acre for the goats, chickens, and rabbits, so I don't think I'll have room for more than 4-6 people at any one time.

I've been toying with the idea of doing a gathering/festival of some sort to see who shows up. Unfortunately, the Traveling Wilburys aren't returning my phone calls so I dunno what to do about music...
 
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A New Name

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I sure there's a few of us here with musical talent who'd enjoy getting together and playing if they were publicly, or otherwise, invited.
 

Shwillam

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So I lived at black bear for about 3 months and plan on going back this spring for another 6.
I am an actual "resident" of black bear.
You have to realize that first off, NO you do NOT have to pay to be there. You have to WORK. The guidelines are old as is the website which if very rarely updated.
It's 88 acres of some of the most beautiful land you will ever experience.
All natural resources are available including fresh water and fertile soil.
All electricity is made by hydro and solar power.
Food is primarily provided by the extremely large perma-culture garden as well as the chickens, goats, and ducks on the property.
Every decision is based on consensus basis, not majority rule.
You guys should certainly go there before having ANY predisposed ideas of what it's like.
It's one of the few places in the US that is completely unique and truly follows anarchist communist ideologies.
 

Shwillam

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I wouldn't want to do anything there, it doesn't sound like my kind of place. too many people. im all for the off grid lifestyle, or farming/ranching, but I've found when more then about 5-10 people come together in an environment long term, trouble happens.
I understand the rules are there because of the amount of people that show up, and that's the reason I wont be there. its more of an organized amusement park than a homestead.

Are you kidding me?
Have you ever been there? First off there's hardly more than 4-6 people there at a time, there's a lot of visitors but they only stay an hour or two.
It's for sure not a fucking amusement park and as someone who's lived there and put a lot of work into the space that's actually kind of insulting.
It's amazing that you refuse to go there but you have SO much to say about it.
 
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todd

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why would I kid you? and why are you being a prick for me participating in a thread? sorry your butt hurt maybe next time I wont give my honest opinion about something someone posts?

LOL grow up, but I am sorry you got your feelings hurt. maybe instead of lashing out you can enlighten and mentor everyone about how/ why im wrong or is that not your style?
 
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Matt Derrick

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why would I kid you? and why are you being a prick for me participating in a thread? sorry your butt hurt maybe next time I wont give my honest opinion about something someone posts?

LOL grow up, but I am sorry you got your feelings hurt. maybe instead of lashing out you can enlighten and mentor everyone about how/ why im wrong or is that not your style?

To be honest your opinion seems kinda unfair and your post makes a lot of generalizations that don't seem to be based on any facts. Also, you haven't even been there, yet you sure do make a lot of assumptions...
 
A

AnOldHope

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I sure there's a few of us here with musical talent who'd enjoy getting together and playing if they were publicly, or otherwise, invited.

Right on. One concern is I might not have the power to run heavy amps, I could maybe run a 100watt practice amp. Plus, no showlights or fog machines.

I've never hosted a show before. What's the traditional logistics for that kind of thing?
 
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A New Name

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No idea, I've no experience with more complicated sound set ups. Then again, I've always preferred acoustic instruments. They have something to them that feel real(er).
 
A

AnOldHope

Guest
So I lived at black bear for about 3 months and plan on going back this spring for another 6.
I am an actual "resident" of black bear.
You have to realize that first off, NO you do NOT have to pay to be there. You have to WORK. The guidelines are old as is the website which if very rarely updated.
It's 88 acres of some of the most beautiful land you will ever experience.
All natural resources are available including fresh water and fertile soil.
All electricity is made by hydro and solar power.
Food is primarily provided by the extremely large perma-culture garden as well as the chickens, goats, and ducks on the property.
Every decision is based on consensus basis, not majority rule.
You guys should certainly go there before having ANY predisposed ideas of what it's like.
It's one of the few places in the US that is completely unique and truly follows anarchist communist ideologies.

Hm, so they're resident population is usually around six? I'd seen information that they had as many as forty, I can understand if that information was out dated, but why the precipitous drop in membership?

I wonder why their website is out of date, they're usually pretty easy to fix and update.

Were the rules about paying $3/day changed a long time ago, or more recently?

I wonder if I contact the email address on the site if anyone would reply. I'd be interested in knowing why the population dropped so much.

It sounds like they have changed a lot from what is described on the website, I'll have to see if I can find any locations that are still operating a higher population. It would also be interesting to see how and why the rules changed so much.

If you have contact information for a current resident there, that'd be cool.
 
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AnOldHope

Guest
No idea, I've no experience with more complicated sound set ups. Then again, I've always preferred acoustic instruments. They have something to them that feel real(er).

Well, since the First Annual Whatever-Its-Called show would probably draw a very small crowd, I guess there's no need for a big sound setup. Acoustics in the desert seem like they'd work fine. You think anybody would know Small Time Blues by Pete Droge?

If you and/or some folks you know would like to play, let me know and we'll see if we can find out if there would be an audience willing to make the trek out here, we can try to figure out a date.

I've got wifi internet, 1160 watts of power, and 500 gallons of water. If the show winds up being a few months out, I should have a trailer or two if anybody wants to hang out overnight.

Figure something like BYOB, potluck for food (although I'll have some freeze dried veggie stuff available), 420 friendly, no hard drugs, no bonfires (we're in sight of the highway so we'd have fire service aircraft and sirens soon after), non-violence, leave if the proprietor asks (and if not, we'd have to have the cops come out)?

We won't charge since this wouldn't really be a concert, more like a private party on private land.

Let me know if you'd be interested in playing.

Thanks!
 

DrewSTNY

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The rules/guidelines/values sounds fairly common sense, if a bit harshly worded. It's a shame that people who wish to live communally have to publish such harsh statements; however, I guess if you never put your expectations out there for people to know about, then you are to blame when they come and mess up your piece of paradise.
 
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AnOldHope

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The rules/guidelines/values sounds fairly common sense, if a bit harshly worded. It's a shame that people who wish to live communally have to publish such harsh statements; however, I guess if you never put your expectations out there for people to know about, then you are to blame when they come and mess up your piece of paradise.

I read some guidelines for East Jesus out at Slabs, if I recall there was something about shotguns for people who leave cigarette butts lying around, and they will "know" if you don't make the $10 donation..
 

Shwillam

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why would I kid you? and why are you being a prick for me participating in a thread? sorry your butt hurt maybe next time I wont give my honest opinion about something someone posts?

LOL grow up, but I am sorry you got your feelings hurt. maybe instead of lashing out you can enlighten and mentor everyone about how/ why im wrong or is that not your style?

Well it seems you sir are the one that's butt hurt.
I just find it hard to believe you can give an honest opinion about somewhere you've never been, and I was just honestly expressing how, being a member of that very amazing community, found your view very insulting as I have put my heart and soul into The Ranch. As have many others that I care a great deal about.
I would prefer not to "enlighten" or "mentor" anybody. I am in no place to do so. If anything I could use some mentors myself.
I would greatly encourage you to go to Black Bear. It very well may change your life as it did mine.
I'd hate to see anyone rob themselves of going to such an amazing and unique place. That's why perhaps I "lashed out."
I feel you're allowing yourself to undersell the place when it could in my humble opinion be the most influencial piece of land and community that many will ever stumble upon.
It may not be this way for everybody but it's been such an impact on me and everyone I've ever known to visit or live there that I suppose I have a bit of a personal attachment and thus become defensive of it.
 
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Shwillam

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Hm, so they're resident population is usually around six? I'd seen information that they had as many as forty, I can understand if that information was out dated, but why the precipitous drop in membership?

I wonder why their website is out of date, they're usually pretty easy to fix and update.

Were the rules about paying $3/day changed a long time ago, or more recently?

I wonder if I contact the email address on the site if anyone would reply. I'd be interested in knowing why the population dropped so much.

It sounds like they have changed a lot from what is described on the website, I'll have to see if I can find any locations that are still operating a higher population. It would also be interesting to see how and why the rules changed so much.

If you have contact information for a current resident there, that'd be cool.

The number of 40 may be an average of year round population, but it's been years since the constant population was anymore than 15.
The drop simply is a trend that's happened since Black Bear started. It'll more than likely going to increase again in a few years.

The website is out of date because in the last 3 years more primitive anarchists have come throu, and they elimanted the wi-fi and hardlines. Theirs no way to communicate inside of Black Bear other than mail. Which is 1.5 hours away on dangerous mountin roads. It's truly secluded.

The monetrary "rules" as all other what are called "guidelines" at BBR are purely suggestions and requests to keep the community going. You're expected, if you live there, to contribute as much as you can to the commune. However I've never once heard of this "$3" guideline.

The email that is run by Nigh on their website will EVENTUALLY reply but a quicker response will come in letter form throu the mail. I can give you (or anyone else) the address and PO box at request. PM me.

I can give you contact to all the residences there via the PO box for the commune @AnOldHope PM me for it.

The "rules" change via the current community members and the ever changing autonomous choices they make as a community. They have no laws, only fluid "natural laws"
They are very active in anarchist practice
 
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A

AnOldHope

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The number of 40 may be an average of year round population, but it's been years since the constant population was anymore than 15.
The drop simply is a trend that's happened since Black Bear started. It'll more than likely going to increase again in a few years.

The website is out of date because in the last 3 years more primitive anarchists have come throu, and they elimanted the wi-fi and hardlines. Theirs no way to communicate inside of Black Bear other than mail. Which is 1.5 hours away on dangerous mountin roads. It's truly secluded.

The monetrary "rules" as all other what are called "guidelines" at BBR are purely suggestions and requests to keep the community going. You're expected, if you live there, to contribute as much as you can to be commune. However I've never once heard of this "$3" guideline.

The email that is run by Nigh on their website will EVENTUALLY reply but a quicker response will come in letter form throu the mail. I can give you (or anyone else) the address and PO box at request. PM me.

I can give you contact to all the residences there via the PO box for the commune @AnOldHope PM me for it.

The "rules" change via the current community members and the ever changing autonomous choices they make as a community. They have no laws, only fluid "natural laws"
They are very active in anarchist practice

Hmm, seems they are now on a different page than what I'm looking to get information about. The $3 guideline is on there website, it sounds like it was put up by people who are no longer there?

This is good information, though, I will see if I can find contact with the previous people who put up the website to learn about what happened with all of that.

Probably would be a good idea for somebody to update or take down the website. If anybody has contact information for the people who were there three years ago, I'd be interested in learning about what happened with the situation reflected at the time the website was current.

Thanks!
 

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