Cisgender Privilege Checklist

[xbocax]

Its VERY easy for people to disregard their privileges
I acknowledge my male, lower middle class, American privilege
acknowledge straight white male privilege
sexuality is not a class or money issue
some may be able to afford a sex change others just dress in drag in any case i would say that both would get a severe amount of shit from society and institutions for being such
too often do debates on privilege end up getting pigeon holed into slavery for minorities or economic status for sexuality just to avoid the issue of it being acceptable to treat others like shit or less than

 

[Cardboard]

I hea what you're saying Bocs, and I know that I am priviledged, but in the end, equal rights and treatment seems to be what this is all about, and that is such a fantasy. Equal rights to what? You have to be really glossing over so much, and generalizing nearly everything to talk about rights, let alone equal. I am A straight white american male if you feel like generalizing. I get Some privilege from that depending on when/where. I had no choice in being born this way, any more than anyone else who was born into something that is such a given as gender and race. I understand that privilege, and Ima fucking ride it till the wheels fall off. My parents threw the dice for me, without consent, and I came out the way I did. Life is a gamble that I didnt choose to make. Just because I might have an advantage because I got lucky and turned out to look like the dominant class of the world doesnt mean that I need to handicap myself, to make it equal for other who are less (on that world class scale, once again, a societal construct, rather than an undeniable truth such as gender/race/height). At the same time, I personally, will not handicap them, stand in their way, discriminate, hate on... Unless they suck. Here is one point where most people can find equality. We all fucking suck. And if you are truly trans from birth, because of some developmental situation in your self, you are probably alright with that, and if you have any problems with society, you can work them out. Unfortunately, I think most people are trans, because of these societal issues, and they are totally out of their fucking heads. These are the people that are starting conversations like this, pushing PC language, getting butthurt when someone uses the words he/she. And my honest opinion? Fuck them. They are warped and twisted in their heads, and trying to make life more difficult for the rest of the world, rather than just improving themselves. They are reflecting all the problems that they complain about. You want to be different, good for you. Be proud of it if you need. Be openly whatever you are. Don't be so fucking confused that I am attacked for saying the wrong words, that gender and race are generalized, and the white male oppressors become all the evil in the world. Be sure of who you are. Be confident. Follow your passions. if you can do these things and still feel like I am a problem, come talk to me then.

 

[Sharkbite]

So much ignorance here about transsexuals. First off society plays no role in it for many of us in determining weather we experience gender dysphoria. I first realized that I was different when I was 4 or 5. That sort of unhappiness shame and emberassment for who you are sticks with you for life and really destroys ones self-esteem early on. Not for everyone but for me definitely. And yes, I tried to fight these feelings for 18 years. 18 years of internal figthing! Are you really gonna tell me I should have tried harder? Try putting something off something you want for 18 years. Just don't have sex for 18 years and pat your self on the back and say "oh I'm so strong because I can deny my personal desires". Then come at me and call me weak. The truth is you are much stronger for being who you want to be than the "typical man". How much shit do you catch just walking down the street? Before I had surgery on my face I knew that where ever I went I had to deal with stares, name calling, creepy people following me, and physical threats. I didn't have any of that when I was acting like the average man. It's not really hard just being a man or even a gay man just going to the store.
As for telling me I should be happy with how I looked and overcome my own insecurities. Let me just ask a question first. Have you ever had someone give you advice about something they had no idea about, and they so believe they were giving good sound advice but you knew they had no idea what they were talking about? That's what people are doing when they say this B.S. It is such a platitude. I can't even tell you how disgusted I used to be with my face and body hair. It got so bad I didn't even look in the mirror for months except for shaving, less I would burst into tears at the site of my male face.
And yes people, it does fucking hurt when you use the wrong pronouns. I'm sorry you trying to use some psuedo intellectual personal right/inconvenience B.S but it's not that fucking hard to say she instead of he. That excuse doesn't cut it. If someone found out an old nickname you despised and called you it despite your preference, you would thing they were a prick too.
One more thing that really exposes the ignorance of most of these people in the thread to there obsession with our genetilia and the absence of cosmetic surgery. It just shows how out of touch people are with our priorities. Actually for most of us that is our 2nd or 3rd surgery even and is much more important than vaginoplasty. Being able to fit into society is so much more crucial than our genitals. But for some perverse reason almost all discussion of transsexuals involves our crotches. Just because I'm a transsexual and I'm a small minority doesn't give you carte blanch to ask about my genitals. It shows just how warped society is that they can call us weak minded and amoral, but at the same time my crotch suddenly becomes a conversation peace.
Sorry to bring up an old thread but I want to start travelling, and I came here to see what kind of ignorant B.S I would have to put up with while doing it.

 

[RVLG]

There have been some fucking intolerant posts here. It's old and irrelevant now, but I'm still going to make my points.

1. Society treats you like dog shit if you're transgendered. I hope no one is so blind to the world to deny this.

2. Scientific research has been done which shows that transgendered people are neurologically structured like the sex they want to be, ergo literally are 'trapped in the wrong body'.

3. People who think that "the Gays" and/or "the Trannies" are trying to take over the world are full of shit. They might say the same about "the Jews", "the Muslims", "the Blacks", or any other social group. None of these are backed by any evidence and are a lame attempt at justification of intolerance.

4. People who don't like being called 'cisgendered' should get used to it, as that is merely the proper term for "not-transgendered". They may as well dislike being called 'straight', 'human', 'mammalian', or 'vertebrate'.

5. Equal rights does not mean that a person with more rights has to lose them to be equal to a lower class. It means giving people with less rights more of them to be equal to those of a higher class.

6. 'Politically Correct' means having the 'correct' politics, which are whatever the present norm is. Transgendered people are well outside the norm, and it cannot be said that 'political correctness' exists in asking someone to use a different pronoun. Remember that gender is entirely social. If a transgendered person is not treated like the proper sex, then the entire point of transition has been lost (sexual dysphoria aside).

 

[Beegod Santana]

One thing I think any transgender person should understand is that almost EVERYONE living a transient lifestyle deals with a certain amount of narrow-minded bullshit just for being who we are. Don't like weird looks at the supermarket? Well I've been refused access to more stores than I can count just for carrying a backpack. Yes, I can stash that backpack, just the same way you can put on normal looking clothes to go out in. Despite the prevailing notion the transgender people are discriminated against everywhere in this country, there are some places where the transgender lifestyle is openly celebrated. If living in normalville usa is destroying you, move. No, its not fair, but it is an option. As I noted earlier in this thread, most of the places in this list are places where NO ONE gets treated equally or humanely. To "demand" special treatment due to your gender identity in places where everyone's rights are already being violated implies that you are in fact privileged to be transgender. In jail I still have to sit and shit in plain view of many people who might have rather unsavory desires or prejudices towards my body. You have to stand strong and defend yourself, otherwise you're fucked. You also have to swallow your pride evey now and again.

 

[Cardboard]

There have been some fucking intolerant posts here. It's old and irrelevant now, but I'm still going to make my points.

1. Society treats you like dog shit if you're transgendered. I hope no one is so blind to the world to deny this.

Also, if you have dreads, piercings, many visible tattoos, if you are fat, if you are not the majority race/religion... Great, society treats us all (anyone outside of the social norm) like dog shit.

2. Scientific research has been done which shows that transgendered people are neurologically structured like the sex they want to be, ergo literally are 'trapped in the wrong body'.

Where, when? Scientific research has and will continue to be done, to prove everything. Show me your sources, and some back ups, or STFU.
(here is a nice little article saying that housework decreases breast cancer risk, hahahah.... science.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6214655.stm)

3. People who think that "the Gays" and/or "the Trannies" are trying to take over the world are full of shit. They might say the same about "the Jews", "the Muslims", "the Blacks", or any other social group. None of these are backed by any evidence and are a lame attempt at justification of intolerance.

Agreed.

4. People who don't like being called 'cisgendered' should get used to it, as that is merely the proper term for "not-transgendered". They may as well dislike being called 'straight', 'human', 'mammalian', or 'vertebrate'.

"Proper"? according to whom? cisgendered, and gender normative are both relatively new terms, that have had to be created because of the confusion caused by those pressing gender politics into the main stream. However, this is the perfect argument against those who have x and y chromosomes and dislike being called "male". Or whatever other combination you prefer, just take care when talking about "proper" definitions, arguing in defense of someone who is trying to defy definition.

5. Equal rights does not mean that a person with more rights has to lose them to be equal to a lower class. It means giving people with less rights more of them to be equal to those of a higher class.

Again, equal rights will not, do not, and have not existed. As well, keep in mind that the right is usually more about the lack of prohibiting something, rather than the empowerment of the person. From what I saw, no one on this board was prohibiting anyone from being equal, its just some who feel that they are not equal have not taken their opportunity to become that, rather just the time to complain that they are not.

6. 'Politically Correct' means having the 'correct' politics, which are whatever the present norm is. Transgendered people are well outside the norm, and it cannot be said that 'political correctness' exists in asking someone to use a different pronoun. Remember that gender is entirely social. If a transgendered person is not treated like the proper sex, then the entire point of transition has been lost (sexual dysphoria aside).

Here is that word proper again. Back to the old chromosomal argument. The proper sex is that which is based on their chromosomes, something society has not much to do with.

 

[katbastard]

fuck your
Privilege

stop trying so hard and just be your self.

 

[Sen]

I'm confused as to why we need a hundred different labels (and thus, a hundred different ways to segregate) for everything? Transgendered/cisgendered/genderfluid/"real" male/biological female/whatever.

Personally, if I meet you on the street, at a party, or in a dark alley, whether you have a penis or vagina, and whether it was there when you were born or surgically created at a later point, or whether you are wearing clothes which may or may not align with the social norm for what's between your legs....it really doesn't matter.

Because, frankly, I can think of thousands of other things to talk with you about, hate you for, or love you for.

Everyone focuses on the differences, and then wonders why we can't all just get along. "It is what it is" - why complicate that?

But maybe I'm just insensitive and don't have a soul.

 

[Sharkbite]

I think there is a lot of debate in the community about such things, it's still hotly contested weather to go by transsexual or transgender. Honestly I don't care what we call our selves or what other people call me, just as long as they don't speak with any venom. But I agree that these terms can be oppressive. I was kicked out of the military for identifying with that label, and as soon as people find out about my past they see me as something different than male or female. Still I never want to go back to the hell my life was before.

 

[Cardboard]

Sen, I couldn't agree more, and this is the reason I make the arguments I do. I am not arguing on behalf of the haters out there, I am just saying that there is another side to these issues, and it is rather shameful that in the alternative communities, there is still such an issue with these things. I also feel (through experience) that these issues are often perpetuated by people picking in their heads, this role of victim, and everyone else as victimizer. Then, when someone accidentally calls the wrong pronoun, getting triggered and pissed off.
SHarkbite, you are right, its not hard to use the preferred pronoun, but this is often out of the question when the discussion has never come up. when talking directly to you or other trans folk, you should be prepared for it, as it is something you have chosen (to be identified by a gender based pronoun). However, when someone doesnt know you, and says, "excuse me sir?" and it triggers such a response as to agression, this perpetuates the problem.
I have been insecure about things, I too hate my body hair. When I was a teenager I shaves my arms and chest because I thought it was disgusting. I was fat once, and a lot of people made fun of me. When I found myself though, and started to worry more about being myself, and whatever it is I want to be, rather than the opinions of other people, I became more confident and secure. These are the traits that I look for in people.
I think that it must be really hard for young trans folk, but its really hard for a ton of people when they are young. I lived with 3 trans folk over the last 5 years, and 2 were completely fucked out of their heads. they were both in their 20's, one was mtf, one ftm. They were both pre-op (I agree the genitals are the least of the worry), however they were both on hormone therapy (which I believe to be a truly terrible thing).
One of them was a klepto, and stole a tonne of shit from people in the collective we lived at over a 3 month period, and in the end tried to commit suicide and was taken away by a big white van with guys in white lab coats. This was a pretty bad experience, and probably uncommon and having nothing to do with the fact that they were trans. However the character of this "tranny dyke" (her preferred label) was so warped (I guess by hormone therapy), that I wouldn't be surprised if the mental problems crossed over somewhere.
Next was a bit younger FtM. Not so direct of a problem like a klepto, but still having a lot of problems from the hormones. He was no longer welcomed in the community, when one night he got violently upset about someone doing ether, and when they brought it to share with a friend of his, she ended up doing a lot, then getting violently upset that they wouldnt give him more. He called the police to the collective, and was no longer welcomed there after that.
The final case was a 48 year old MtF, who was calm, had her life together, and was a really awesome person. She was able to talk about sensitive issues in a way that made things clear to people, but did not feel so defensive, or aggressive. She opened a lot of peoples eyes to things that trans folk had to deal with, and played a big role in creating my belief that hormone therapy is a terrible thing.
In the years since this, I have encountered a hell of a lot of trans folk, and been in many queer communities. I can relate to a lot of queer ideology because I do not like the fact that I am identified as a man. I do however accept it, and I guess by a lot of standards, act the part. A collective I was living in Hosted a queer festival for over 2000 people a couple of years back, and it triggered again a distaste for the folks that play the role of victim. It was once again by young trans folk. They were spreading a lot of propaganda against straight males, and as well being triggered by anything they could find, if it meant the could impose their will over someone else (generally someone they considered the oppressor, generally a straight male). Someone was excluded for wearing a camouflage shirt, another for dancing around nude with an erection (consider this was a very sexual place, full with orgies and porn screenings), and I was almost excluded for hijacking the que for the kissing booth (ie, making out with everyone for free), when the people inside refused to kiss me for I was straight.
Again, I dont mean to generalize, but if I must, the younger trans folk, who are going through hormone therapy, and playing the role of the victim to everyone they meet, FUCK YOU. You are ruining the community for the rest of the people. You are making problems outside of the community by attacking the alternative folk who support you.
More generally, anyone who continues to play the role of victim, whether it is because of race, gender issues, religion, class, whatever. Fuck yourselves. Go away, please. You have no chance of changing anything in society until you change yourselves first. You are just projecting your own insecurities on everyone.
The rest of the trans folk, who are secure of themselves, and know who they are on the inside, regardless of physical appearance, good job. Keep up the good work. Try to exclude these confused angry victims from your community, they are more weight than any of you can carry, and they will only hold the movement back.

 

[Cardboard]

Oh, and this is a sort of personal private response to a recent event, ignore it if it doesn't apply to you:
D, are you actually an active part of this forum, or are you somehow just being a creepy stalker and spreading things I have written online to slander my reputation?
Anyone on this site is squatting in Dijon?

 

[kadenelias]

More:
I expect doctors will call me by the name I identify as
I expect doctors will refer to me by the pronoun I go by

pot calling the kettle black here? My corporate control, My money, and MY psuedo rebelliion? Hmm interesting. i completely agree that theres a struggle there and yes some have gotten beaten to death and i dont support any of that. i think all people have a right to be themselves and be respected as such. now with that said, if youre going to be a prick about it, What do you pay for that type of surgery with, coconuts? No, MONEY. who performs those surgeries? ur anarchist friends? No, Plastic Surgeons, a posterchild for everything thats wrong with our society to begin with! and as far as psuedo rebellion, changing your genitalia does not make you a revolutionary. id be more apt to stick up for you on this one if you werent being such an aggro hypocrite.

Are you seriously going to say I am less of anarchist because I am willing to pay for top surgery when I can finally get the money together, instead of killing myself? Seriously?

 

[kadenelias]

What's that wrong with Hormone therapy? As a ftm, I am male whether or not I am injecting testoterone in my leg - I am male if I'm wearing a dress and I'm male if I'm shirtless on the beach with my moobs visible. That doesn't stop me from being uncomfortable in my own skin - that doesn't stop me from wanting a flat, "male" chest, not for acceptance in society and not because it will make me any more male than I am now (it won't), but it is how I, autonomously, choose to look . Self-revolution is important: it's knowing what you need to do to be comfortable with yourself and not caring what others think of those choices. Honestly I don't know if I'll continue HRC after I get top surgery - maybe I will, maybe I won't, but that's MY decision to make. What about genderless people? What about male-bodied but genderless/genderqueer people who want breasts or estrogen in their bodies, but identify as neither a woman nor a man? If there's no room for acceptance of transgender folk in anarchism - which before reading this thread I assumed of course there is, it's ANARCHISM, everyone can do what they like and not judge other people for doing what they like, we are all human beings and we are all DIFFERENT; so much of the problems in society comes from being afraid of the unknown, being afraid of those who are different, because somehow our own identity will become less valid if someone else's different identity is allowed to exist, and there will be less room for other issues to be dismantled (say, sexism, racism) if we spend time to dismantle cissexism. Honestly having an ego at all is the problem. I think we all just need to chill out and drop some acid and experience ego-loss.
I'm going to take a step back and breathe. Remind myself that this actually is still the internet and all the real people I've met have room for me in their revolution. & read the rest of the posts and hope there are more posts that don't assume having a list about cissexism means us trannies are sexist, racist cowards who are victims. I am NOT a victim. I am a free individual who chooses not to listen to authorities. I am an anarchist. And I am a transman.

 

[Laume]

This is legitimately the most depressing thread I've ever tried to make it through. :'(
All these blind motherfuckers. Like a bunch of spineless cave dwellers.

#ignorantCISbitches
#neverreadthecoments
#fucksociety

 

[CrustyFagabond]

What you think you become.
If you think your different then you become different.
If you believe your the victim of gender inequality then you become it.
If you believe your the victim of homophobic violence, you'll find that too.

I used to get the shit kicked out of me when I was in high school. I fought back and left the social constrains of public school early. I was proactive in my communities and believe I helped a lot of the younger LGBT generations to be more accepted and treated with respect.
That's the main focus here. RESPECT.
Try having respect for ignorance and help slowly open their eyes instead of forcing the preverbal eye open with a toothpick.

 

[Cardboard]

What's that wrong with Hormone therapy?

Uhhhh....? really?
Sorry, whether it is hormone therapy, birth control, or even a natural hormonal imbalance, these things (especially estrogen and testosterone), drastically alter people personalities and behavior. I understand that that could be part of the point, but if you cannot directly see the conflict I may have with these effects, I dont know if I can get more clear (in a generalized way, rather than going deep into detail of personal experiences).
Again, yeah, to each their own, but if you are fucked up in your head from hormone therapy, or from being a junkie, it doesnt matter too much to me, it is a side effect from the choices you make (which you are free to do), that I would rather just avoid in my life.
I dont know. I havent thought about this thread in ages, but I think personally, I do not identify by gender. I do not choose to identify the people around me by gender (or, if identifying in a passive sense "that guy", do not impose a gender based definition upon others). You are free to do so when you want, but to me its a pretty petty, insignificant point on which to define one self. I dont run around claiming my gender, sexual preference, race, religion, nationality.... whatever. If asked, I have been introspective enough to know who I am, and sure, can answer when needed. But basing my definition of self, whether my self or others, upon one petty factor (ok, petty to me specifically, but to me any one factor in defining ones self is pretty fucking petty), is below me, and rather a source of conflict, than the basis of a solution.

 

[Cardboard]

What you think you become.
If you think your different then you become different.
If you believe your the victim of gender inequality then you become it.
If you believe your the victim of homophobic violence, you'll find that too.

I used to get the shit kicked out of me when I was in high school. I fought back and left the social constrains of public school early. I was proactive in my communities and believe I helped a lot of the younger LGBT generations to be more accepted and treated with respect.
That's the main focus here. RESPECT.
Try having respect for ignorance and help slowly open their eyes instead of forcing the preverbal eye open with a toothpick.

Spot on Crusty. Dont forget to not only respect the ignorance, but yourself as well. Sure your an anarchist, and you choose to be "different" or "a victim" when you want (I respect your right to that choice), but if you choose to identify as a victim, you are not choosing the path of empowerment, and my choice will not be to pity you.
"If you dont respect yourself, Don't expect respect from anyone else"

 

[CrustyFagabond]

Spot on Crusty. Dont forget to not only respect the ignorance, but yourself as well. Sure your an anarchist, and you choose to be "different" or "a victim" when you want (I respect your right to that choice), but if you choose to identify as a victim, you are not choosing the path of empowerment, and my choice will not be to pity you.
"If you dont respect yourself, Don't expect respect from anyone else"

Totally! And if someone choses to be the victim, don't try to force me to be the aggressor.
We all should respect ourselves enough to take responsibility for our own actions and especially our RE-actions.

 

[Deleted member 14481]

The traveling community is really no better than the capitalists they say they are against. The second you call out people on their privilege they want to deny it and bring out situations when they didn't feel they have it even though they walk around with privilege every day.

"Oh, but I disagree". Disagreeing doesn't make you right. It just means you disagree, but you're too self centered to see that you're disagreeing with someone that can clearly see the privilege that you have because they don't have it.

It's like a cookie. We can see you have a cookie, and maybe we don't have a cookie or we only have a half a cookie, but you have a big whole fucking cookie. We have waited. We have politely asked. We've left bad store reviews and told the manager, but we still don't have the cookie. Meanwhile, you're eating your fucking cookie right in front of us, but telling that you don't have a cookie because it's not the exact cookie that you wanted. But, it was still given to you and you're still fucking eating it.

Fucking cis people.

 

[Matt Derrick]

i'm just going to copy and paste my response to you in the white privilege thread with a few additional thoughts:

"you are correct that 90% of this thread is people denying white cis privilege. and yes, that's fucked, and fucking stupid, because it's like denying the sun is in the sky. its a huge festering sore on the traveler community and i'm embarrassed that it even exists.

while i can't 100% know your anger (i'm a white cis male), i can empathize with it. and when you're so angry i understand that it's really easy to categorize everyone with blanket statements, but i would like to remind you that blanket statements often offend people that are trying to be your ally."

please understand that we are not all in the same boat because we were born a certain way; some of us actually acknowledge this problem and are trying to do something about it.