Bernie Sanders (1 Viewer)

D

Deleted member 24029

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It's all so tiresome

Sanders has a better *idea* of what to do and how to work it out.

On one hand it's 'probably' the same old song n dance, on the other "well you gotta vote him in to find out!". The entire system is so rotten.

Look at what they did to Ralph Nader, and don't tell me "oh well that was 20 years ago" that's nothing.

I'd like to read more from @Bey on this topic, but that is up to them. All I know is that it doesn't surprise me what they have to say - that Sanders approved some fucked up shit that got fucked up,

So here's my question - Will there EVER be a presidential candidate who can meaningfully alter the entire system? Or even a significant portion of it? I've gotta think no, the system is the problem and hoping-hoping-hoping for the right president is just chasing the dragon.

Who said "Get people asking the wrong questions and you don't have to worry about what answers they may find"
OK...by request, then, here's the story: I was doing antiwar activism in 2009, in Burlington, VT (where Sanders' office is). I was writing about my opposition to the US' financial support for Israel's military (and Bernie's votes in favor of Israeli warfare), when the local police showed up at the apartment. They informed me that I was under Federal investigation, at the request of Sanders, by the U.S. Capitol Police (who has jurisdiction over threats to the lives of Congressmen). The Feds had asked the municipal cops to do the actual investigating after they determined that, upon review of my writing and actions, there did not appear to be any crime with which I could be charged. They informed Sanders of this, and then sent the local police, when he insisted that I continue to be investigated as a "threat to national security". Slightly doubting this story, I checked with Bernie 's staff, and the Capitol police, and verified it. Bernie believed I was a dangerous anarchist who should be jailed for criticizing his pro-war voting. Apparently, he does not take disagreement well. Subsequent to this, I've been told be people with whom he founded the old Liberty Union Party, that he always had this trait....
 
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roughdraft

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thank you @Bey

this anecdote pretty much confirms my suspicions that he - not much unlike Trump or any other politician - is all talk - trying to appeal to a certain panorama of demographics for the almighty taste of power.
 

roughdraft

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I don't know how much you should let an anecdote reinforce any particular view.
i dig, in a general way - but if an anecdote is a mere continuation of the pattern of hollowheaded corrupt political hoo-ha ? what else do we have to go on? ignoring the anecdote could be considered as denial, which is a very destructive force
 

blank

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Anything that is not "oh I agree" could be considered denial tho, it's about that happy balance, which in this case I would call just looking at his voting record.
 
D

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Anything that is not "oh I agree" could be considered denial tho, it's about that happy balance, which in this case I would call just looking at his voting record.
...Just wanted to break in here and say that, ironically, it was looking at his voting record that landed me on the "no fly" list, in the first place...!
 

blank

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I just never pass up an opportunity to say no to anecdotes. It's a compulsion from growing up in a tiny rural area where everything is based on anecdotes. It's not a good method.
 
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Coywolf

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That first whole part is a bunch of fucking gibberish based on uncertain relativities.
Fuck you for cutting my sentance short and misconstruing its meaning that's some typical MSNBC shit.
As for "lobbyist" don't you work for a tax funded bueracracy? I'm a squatter/construction worker you do the math pal.
I'm pretty sure I just want to live my fucking life and work without some publicly funded stoog fucking me around.
Its really that simple.
Aw, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, bud.

Look, let's just agree to disagree. I just cant get behind alot of the things you are saying. I will never understand the majority of the conservative arguement.

@Bey I'm having a very hard time believing that Sanders started an investigation into you based on a threat to national security with no just cause, based entirely on a peaceful protest. Is there more to this story?

No offense, but then again, my brother was arrested and questioned by the FBI for threatening Obama's life in a conversation in a bar.
 
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Coywolf

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Also, @roughdraft you have to realize that incident was in 2009. Its 2019.

As far as 'he is all talk', after producing bills to end Citizens United, create The ACA, ending our funding to Israel and Saudi Arabia....and supporting the Violence against Women act, Obama era environmental protection, Wall Street/Corporate/bank oversight, voting against almost every military conflict in his lifetime...

I'm not sure you should jump to conclusions based upon a single anecdote....which is what @blank was saying
 
D

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Aw, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, bud.

@Bey I'm having a very hard time believing that Sanders started an investigation into you based on a threat to national security with no just cause, based entirely on a peaceful protest. Is there more to this story?

No offense, but then again, my brother was arrested and questioned by the FBI for threatening Obama's life in a conversation in a bar.
I think, honestly, the explanation may lie in the fact that Bernie, being the former mayor of Burlington and still working in the town, had/has people around him that know me from this area. I do have a reputation for being...what can we call it?...an extremist? The kind of person that one is either really happy (or really NOT) to see show up at an event. Relatedly, my daughter, in Manhattan, was once left by a boyfriend (a Navy Ensign stationed in NYC) after he said that his Commander briefed him on who I am (they were living together and that alone constituted an OPSEC problem?). So, I'll admit to being the crazy anarchist fucker, if that helps this discussion...
 
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Naw, it doesnt matter if you are a crazy anarchist tucker or not, that's pretty bad if he did spearhead an investigation against you. Definitely helps in the understanding of why it happened, though.
 

Juan Derlust

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Great / now I'm gonna be on the shit list for giving @Bey a thumbs up

Well at least he looks the part - enough gray in his whiskers to have seen some shit

(me too!)

Anyhow this thread has given me a nice trip back down memory lane

no small irony two-thirds of the posters are now deleted
 
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highwayman

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In regards to part of the above post by @Juan Derlust
and to be fair to @creature who got deleted actually posted like 2/3 of that thread. It brings up a common belief held everywhere.

Its been suggested that one doesnt talk about politics, religion or sex/money at a bar, at work and that also crosses over perfectly into AA meetings, the dinner table and just about everywhere. Online forums could also be forbidden depending on what the forum is about. But if we cannot have civil discourse about that which could be considered taboo here at STP; then where else can we find a safe space? I feel comfortable with my political stance & believe that I will stand on the just side of history with my limited voting history & opinions. Its nice to be reminded of my past post about Bernie in 2015/2016 and to know that I still believe/agree in what I posted then while still feeling very troubled about the state of the world today.

I feel safe discussing Bernie on STP and it always amazes me when people disclose snippets of their belief systems & politics IRL. I recall seeing mostly normal acquaintances as peers until learning about their inner desires when learning that they support/supported/are supporting Trump. Its really hard to rekindle a friendship once you know someone supports such evil ideologies. Almost 4 years post Trump winning; I still held hope that those I mentioned could have been duped, misinformed, desperate or confused prior to Trump being elected. Still with a naive glimmer of hope for one time peers/friends/family/acquaintances that after several years of Trump; how could they still stand behind their vote. Sadly many have doubled down on that style of politics and want more of it. Perhaps we should publicly disclose what we believe in more often to protect those around us from being tricked that they/we are all decent, just, ethical & or moral. Perhaps if we do or don't fuel hate and or harbor desire for an unjust, immoral and evil world or its opposite we should carry such clear labels on our heads. Those "maga" hats were a great idea so that I can now effectively see my enemy counterparts more clearly & effectively.
 
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In regards to part of the above post by @Juan Derlust
and to be fair to @creature who got deleted actually posted like 2/3 of that thread. It brings up a common belief held everywhere.

Its been suggested that one doesnt talk about politics, religion or sex/money at a bar, at work and that also crosses over perfectly into AA meetings, the dinner table and just about everywhere. Online forums could also be forbidden depending on what the forum is about. But if we cannot have civil discourse about that which could be considered taboo here at STP; then where else can we find a safe space? I feel comfortable with my political stance & believe that I will stand on the just side of history with my limited voting history & opinions. Its nice to be reminded of my past post about Bernie in 2015/2016 and to know that I still believe/agree in what I posted then while still feeling very troubled about the state of the world today.

I feel safe discussing Bernie on STP and it always amazes me when people disclose snippets of their belief systems & politics IRL. I recall seeing mostly normal acquaintances as peers until learning first about their inner desires when learning that they support/supported/supporting Trump. Its really hard to rekindle a friendship once you know someone supports such evil ideologies. Almost 4 years post Trump winning; I still held hope that those I mentioned could have been duped, misinformed, desperate or confused prior to Trump being elected. Still with a naive glimmer of hope for one time peers/friends/family/acquaintances that after several years of Trump could now in no way could they still stand behind their vote. Sadly many have doubled down on that style of politics and want more of it. Perhaps we should publicly disclose what we believe in more often to protect those around us from being tricked that they/we are all decent, just, ethical, moral. Perhaps if we do or don't fuel hate and or harbor desire for an unjust, immoral and evil world or its opposite we should carry such clear labels on our heads. Those "maga" hats were a great idea so that I can now effectively see my enemy counterparts more clearly & effectively.
HARD AGREE.
 

roughdraft

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Anything that is not "oh I agree" could be considered denial tho, it's about that happy balance, which in this case I would call just looking at his voting record.
it *is* sorta about a happy balance isn't it?

between our own biases, hopes or "wishful thinking", and the objective reality we try to grasp onto, which is in some cases more difficult to define than others,
 

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Look I'm not here to preach my politics to anyone. I'm just saying I don't agree. And just because I don't agree with you doesn't make you my enemy.
As a disclaimer I'd like to say that my viewpoints are entirely reactionary to my experience. And before I would have probably agreed with you but now I don't.
 

highwayman

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Look I'm not here to preach my politics to anyone. I'm just saying I don't agree. And just because I don't agree with you doesn't make you my enemy.
As a disclaimer I'd like to say that my viewpoints are entirely reactionary to my experience. And before I would have probably agreed with you but now I don't.
I think you could be right about us not being outright enemies as we do not know or interact with each other enough to be completely sure. Just as, if someone may agree with the majority of my political beliefs that won't automatically make us friends, allies or comrades. Personalities or disagreeing on singular issues can also make us forget all of the other issues where we are in solidarity together. Many of us tend to lurk in the grey areas publicly while keeping our most radical beliefs private. One great part about STP is that it can be a haven for radical thought & action of a certain far left flavor. Much of what many believe here is way left of left & I like it. One can probably deduce from my posts is that my radical beliefs can & do differ greatly then those whom I may have so easily described as my enemy.
Maybe none of us are enemies and we are all but opposing co-conspirators in the same broken system? (likely)

Some may have voted Trump and still affirm that they are still "good" people. Just as Obama is hailed as a saint by many in spite of his drone war, mass deportations, foreign policy & renewing the Patriot Act. I think Donald Trump is evil and while our thread is about Bernie Sanders it is very hard to have any discussion while not examining the current alternatives. The world is not simply black or white, right or wrong & or good or bad. Our society is always learning/evolving & or forgetting/regressing from our shared checkered history. With Bernie I strongly doubt that the 80yo version of me will ever need to say "I didn't know, I was just following orders" or regret my voting for him twice. But only time will tell. Maybe, just as they who elected Obama got some good with his included bad; we will all be similarly just as culpable yet not responsible after this next presidency.
 
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David1

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I want to see a debate with someone representing capitalism on one side and socilism on the other, Bernie vs Trump would be a start because as far as the US goes we want to best of both and not the responsibilities.
 
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