All that BullShit about the collapse of Civilization (1 Viewer)

Mar 22, 2013
Amerika- Greater Global Plantation.
it could happen, but we could stagger along as we have for a long time. there is still much growth to be acheived as a race.

civilizations have failed before, when this one goes it wont be the end of mankind.
Actually were at peak growth as infinite growth cannot take place on a finite planet.

This is why collapse of civilization in many forms is becoming imminent.

I give civilization another two hundred years or less before it flatlines.
We sell all kinds of other stuff in our Etsy store!


May 1, 2014
To the OP, I haven't waded through the entire six pages of responses: Interesting question, with a few fallacies.

Not everyone with money, as you state, is outside of the "it's allll goin' down, man" loop. The only other forum I look at is run by a market analyst who regularly appears on alphabet news media. I've been reading him since 2007, and most of the other forum members are rich enough to play the stock market (and that is the original premise of that forum - stock tips and trading advice). So they have money. I won't say "all" because I haven't spoken to all of them, but most of that forum's members believe modern civilization is going down in flames, and quite soon. Since I joined that board seven years ago, it's gone from analyzing the market to extract the most profit to everyone having left the market and only dipping a toe in if they think it 'll be short-term worthwhile, and discussing what to do with their money otherwise, and how best to situate themselves for the end of the economy as we know it.

That's the fallacy that I saw in the OP. It's not just people without money who see this. It's those who have skin in the game and something to lose, as well.

As to why I think this will happen - well, I don't think it . I know it. At this point, it is math in action. Math is a funny thing . It doesn't give a rip about your football team, or Christmas. It doesn't care about Grandma dying. You could tell math, in a very firm tone of voice, that unless math changes very soon then puppies and fluffy kittens will all die of cancer. But math won't care. Math just is.

The relevant numbers are all out there - government reports out the wazoo, every week. Not enough of the (true) numbers needed for a serious mathematician to do the work to find out exactly *when*, but enough to know that it is inevitable. Getting rid of the M3 report was a doozy, but at least we can still look at the QE and extrapolate.

$15 Billion (a big B) in debt every week. And by debt, I mean the government takes that big chunk of taxes and then spends even more on top of it. It'd be an extra $200 a week for your average Joe and Sally Six-Pack, on top of the taxes they already pay, only to cover the extra debt the government incurred last year alone. Just federal government debt, so after every person in America pays their weekly share of that then we can get to the state debt, and after that then 0ur own personal household debt and THEN pay the actual bills to live, like food. We can 'Murika and "USA USA" all we want, that can't happen *mathematically*.

Law of exponents. Everything can be fine, right up until it isn't.

The only question is whether we have passed the event horizon. I argue that we have, and in general the math backs me up, but others argue we may have another year before we hit the point of no return and in general the fact that the government doesn't tell us all the numbers backs them up. But then, do you see politicians advocating a change in economic policy over the next year? So po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe.

Anyways. My 96 pence. Coz inflation, y'know.


Mar 13, 2011
the desert
what in the fuck is debt or inflation supposed to have to do with civilization? these are abstract values fixed in a certain way at a certain time by a particular phase of society. if anything you're talking about a horizon faced by capitalist civilization, not civilization per se. only it's not government debt that's going to bring it down, unless perhaps because of what it costs the government to keep the population under control - and probably they'll just gradually abandon more and more areas to be chaotic slum territories - but because the rate of extraction of surplus value from human labor ('profit'), the very core motor of capitalism, is declining, has been declining for 50 years, due to automation, globalization, and everything brought about by capital's need to become more efficient. a victim of its own success as it were.

Margin Walker

May 16, 2014

Recommended reading.

Not that you need a book to see the obvious at this point.
Carrying capacity is real and neither our culture, nor our species is exempt. Collapse isn't a monolithic event to occur at some point in the future. Collapse is a process, and we're in the midst of that process presently. That isn't a license for apathy or inaction, just a reminder that all civilizations fall, and fall for the same reasons.

Rob Nothing

I'm a d-bag and got banned.
Aug 26, 2012
171 Market St, Newark, NJ 07102, USA
intelligence is scarce. it means that these systems or lack thereof being put in place tend to be shoddy at best. whatever time period, wherever in the cycle of boom and bust. and people will jump at every opportunity to think the sky is falling, because it's fun, and because that's how imaginative they are.


Jul 15, 2013
san jose, ca
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a way of life based on the use of non-renewable resources isn't going to last.

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