Palestine/Gaza-solidarity

[spoorprint]

Israel is launching a long term bombing campaign and possible invasion of Gaza.


Lots of demonstrations today-check the ANSWER web site.
Pittsburgh demonstration is Wednesday night (Dec.31) at the Federal building 4-6pm.
Called by Pax Chrisiti

 

[maus]

answer is a front for the workers world party who are hard line authoritarian marxists. fuck that shit, the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

 

[IBRRHOBO]

i suppose that hamas lobbing bombs randomly and sending suicide bombers instead of fighting a war wouldn't be grounds for sending the gaza back into the 5th century. my views aside, maus has it right, before one jumps on the bandwagon (unless of course one is a red and if so so be it) one might research the who, what, when, where and why of a cause. WTC was a good, unifed cause w/multiple actors ... red fronts have a VERY bad habit of doing what Lenin/Stalin did to the anarchists.

 

[maus]

i dont really understand your first sentence, do you really think the activity of hamas is grounds for the destruction, starvation and abuse being visited on the people who live in gaza?? i certainly hope not... i dont support answer, hamas, israel or any other state (or wanna-be state)

 

[IBRRHOBO]

don't really think either of 'em have the 'grounds' for war ... that's just the deal of nation-states playing a game of chess w/human pawns. what i was driving @ is one should research: whether it's a) 'gee, i think israel is god's people' and thus back israel --- this would be erroneous as this conflict is a socio-political war which deals w/property; b) 'i support hamas because they are alah's people' --- this, thoo, would be erroneous in addressing point 'a'; or c) i'm gonna goto the answer rally cause it's furthering my belief that the communistas will walk hand-in-hand w/my cause (in this look no further than a. solshenitzin's a day in the life of ivan desinovitch). i support no one or cause other than that of survival ... not touchy-feely good survival, but survival in and of itself.

 

[Scarecrow]

At this point, the Palestinians have more grounds for war. The Israeli's have pushed them barren piece of land (that is no good for farming), starved them of food and medical supplies, while continually lobbing shells and bullets into Gaza, not to mention bulldozing Palestinian apartment blocks with the occupants still inside. However, Hamas doesn't have the materials or manpower required to fight a war against Israel, hence the suicide bombings (they do what they gotta do)

 

[veggieguy12]

Since you all asked how I feel:

I think it's fair of HAMAS to attack Israel, just as much as it's fair for Iraqis to attack the "Coalition Forces" occupying their land.
HAMAS does offer acceptance of the 1967 'Green Line' borders, but Israel continues to kidnap more Palestinians (including elected politicians), colonize more land, and generally stomp around the region like the USA has done 'round the globe for the last 100 years. HAMAS doesn't renounce violence or recognize Israel - and Israel doesn't renounce violence, nor do they recognize HAMAS (see the withholding of international assistance funds after HAMAS's electoral win).
So fuck 'em!

Israel can do what they want, but they're totally overpowering and overwhelming an entire population in reprisal for relatively minor actions by one militant group. This is a war crime, termed "collective punishment", something the armed Palestinian resistance has not been able to commit against Israel. Infrastructure attacks by Israel are common, but there has been perhaps only one or two (arguable) by Palestinians against Israeli society.

(And Israel, at American prompting, essentially made the religious HAMAS movement as a way to dilute the popular, socialist, secular, Soviet-backed groups like the PFLP - so they created their own Frankenstein's monster like the US did with al-Qaeda (from al-Jihad in Egypt) and the Taliban.)

 

[desaparecido]

 

[spoorprint]

I'm aware that ANSWER is a Worker's World front -at least for a lot of purposes.
I also see United for Peace and Justice as a front for the Progressive Democrats-though friends have disputed that.Still, no one but ANSWER seemed to be attempting to organize a quick response this week, so there calender was useful.

And I agree getting sucked into a front group long term would be unproductive.

 

[thesenator]

Hamas now*plans major suicide attacks inside Israel. The group actually warned Muslims who are foreign citizens to leave Israel immediately: http://samsonblinded.org/news/hamas-warned-muslims-to-flee-israel-5473

 

[vince]

im in solidarity with palestinians forever noone should EVER need to tolerate what they go through man, israel are imperialist fuckers who did the same think the colonists did to natives. conquering just because they have more guns. nothing justifies genocide. fuck that shit. if any of you get the opportunity theres a realy good documentary called "occupation 101" you can find it on google video. it wasnt allowed pressing in us till like 2006, it was made in 04 i believe.

i have good homie whos been to palestine a couple times with radical motivation and has some fucked up stories.

he showed me a picture of the wall on the palestinian side that had a big circle A and it said "no good squats here", just thought id throw that in, i thought it was humorous when i saw it in a sad way

 

[wokofshame]

i know people will bitch at me, but: you need to go there to really understand what the deal is. having a preformed opinion before i went kind of retarded/delayed my learning experience living there

 

[bote]

I can't bitch at you unless you give me more to work with- how did going there affect your understanding of things, or rather what is your understanding of things? Can't blame you if you don't want to get into it, but I am genuinely curious.

 

[veggieguy12]

...you need to go there to really understand what the deal is.

I don't think that's true, anyone in the world can get a look at all the evidence and reporting of what the past and present situations are, and thus determine what is happening and form an opinion.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but this sounds like the typical un-informed American catch-all/dismiss-all, "It's so complex, that Middle East stuff".
I don't think Israel/Palestine is any more complex than Dutch/Spanish/French/English/American vs. Iriquois/Seminole/Maya/Inca/Aztec/Taino/Apache/Sioux. It's about land theft from and dispossession of an indigenous group by a foreign group. It's ethnic cleansing.
Even the Israeli and Zionist top levels admit as much, check out some of the more recent stuff from renowned Israeli historian Benny Morris.
He doesn't deny that it's ethnic cleansing, he just basically says, "The commanders were right, the founders were doing the right thing, we have to purge the land of the non-Jews if we want a secure Israel" (not an exact quote).
Jews, Muslims, and Christians of various ethnicities - Semites, Druze, Bedouin, Arabs, Canaanites, etc. - lived side-by-side in Palestine before the World Zionist Congress decided to flood the area with Jews.
So the question is, do we demand security for people whoever they are, wherever they reside, or do we say that European Jews should not be persecuted and are thus entitled to migrate to Palestine and push out the brown natives to make themselves a safe haven?
Well, do we say that fanatical Protestants weren't safe in Europe and were thus entitled to settle in The New World and slaughter the brown native savages there?
Yeah, I know, "The Palestinians don't want peace, they just hate Jews" and blah blah blah, other demonizing and vilifying rhetoric goes well with the old stories about scalping and village raids by Indians.