Living In The Revolution?

[Bullet]

So I basically copy/pasted this from the chatbox...I don't know if the original poster wants to be identified, but I put that person in italics. The regular font is my response.

We were talking about that "feeling" that something big is about to happen, and what it means...(i.e. "the revolution"). Anyway, I was sorry the convo got cut short, so I'm putting it up here for anyone else to chime in with ideas and responses. I'm pretty interested in this thing but I don't usually give it much thought. It seems like a universal truth that I just accept so all my thoughts about it come pretty naturally. If you think I'm full of shit, I'd be interested in hearing that, too. All of it is just opinion, natch.

So here it goes:


ive heard so many people from so many differnet walks of life talk about that feeling.
even a trucker in Little Rock who felt like there was some kind of violent revolution coming

its a natural feeling no doubt

yeah its called Unhappiness

i wouldn't say its unhappy

its being dissatified with the way things are
it creates a desire for change

that might be one cause of it
i guess i can see where youre coming from when u put it that way

i do think something is gonna happen on a mass scale, but theres no reason to wait around when you can just chose to live in whatever post-revolutionary state you think is gonna come

i think that a massive shift of zeitgeist is going to happen soon

i think youre right, but im not going to wait around for everyone else to start it and play along with whatever plan that is. i get that feeling and i change things.
but ill fucking be there when it happens

i'm sitting back and waiting to react based on what happens

i couldnt live like that

past six months i've felt detached from the world, like i'm just looking in from the outside
sounds like more of a reason for action than inaction

i dont think it's going to be a physical action, though. i think that most revolutionaries right now are effete

i think its going to be some evolution in thinking

hm im not sure i like that word choice...but also i disagree

more of a collective deep breath then a coup d etat

well if thats true, which it may be...an advancement or change in thinking...

i dont think a lot of revolutionaries are good at marketing themselves.

then i dont think its gonna happen all of a sudden
its up to people who have that feeling to do something. to change and start living like its already happened. thats whats going to create change
not waiting around for others.
i think you will be waiting a very long time.

i suppose that what it boils down to personally i that i just dont have any idea what to do
that the feeling i have is that a personal change is going to occur soon, not a large scale change
or perhaps it will be cause and effect

i kind of have this vison like the womens uprising of the french revolution. where the fishwives all picked up weapons and stormed the castle.
i suppose a few of them planned it, but most just went along with it
like everyone just knew what to do all of a sudden
but obviously they all had this unsettled feeling for a long time in order to be willing to just blindly do that
so you just do what you have to do in your own life to improve things, and then one day maybe someone will give the shout

there is this thing that happens with people, in psychology...i cant remember what its called...
but basically, when there is a group of people, and one person is being hurt or in trouble, the group stands around and does nothing
because everyone is thinking "oh someone else will do something"
i think that is an analogy for whats happening now
everything sucks and no one likes it. and we're all waiting around for someone else to do somethin and save us all


for me, im the person who's hurt or injured and i think im waiting for some group of people to help me

i dont think everything sucks. but i think a lot of things do. but thats never going to change. my happiness is likely not your happiness

yeah i think we all kind of feel like that, lol

well yeah not everything sucks. personally im really happy and my life is fucking awesome. im wont for basically nothing

 

[Rash L]

be the change you want to see in the world... and stuff.

other than that, I feel really burnt out these days, perhaps that will change soon... things are always changing.

 

[connerR]

That was me in italics.

Personally, I agree with Rash L. I need to revolutionize myself before anything else. Hence the "waiting around for a group to help me." I don't mean that in the "I'VE FOUND JESUS" kind of way, but I'm waiting for something to happen that makes me say: "I believe in this 100%."

That's another big reason that I think most revolutionaries are effete. They're too caught up with the aesthetic.

 

[Bullet]

that's what I was trying to say- make your life better and then you WILL be living in the "revolutionized" world. It's not about everyone else changing, it's about you.

 

[Mouse]

this constant revolution makes me dizzy

 

[IBRRHOBO]

zeitgeist...rather interesting use of the german vernacular. along these lines there is a book entitled The Hundredth Monkey. it really deals with a paradigm shift, if you will, into a collective consciousness. probably greek to a lot of folks, so here's an excerpt for those of you who would like a good read on the psychology of bullet's chat:

The Japanese monkey, Macaca fuscata, had been observed in the wild for a period of over 30 years.
In 1952, on the island of Koshima, scientists were providing monkeys with sweet potatoes dropped in the sand. The monkeys liked the taste of the raw sweet potatoes, but they found the dirt unpleasant.
An 18-month-old female named Imo found she could solve the problem by washing the potatoes in a nearby stream. She taught this trick to her mother. Her playmates also learned this new way and they taught their mothers too.
This cultural innovation was gradually picked up by various monkeys before the eyes of the scientists.
Between 1952 and 1958 all the young monkeys learned to wash the sandy sweet potatoes to make them more palatable.
Only the adults who imitated their children learned this social improvement. Other adults kept eating the dirty sweet potatoes.
Then something startling took place. In the autumn of 1958, a certain number of Koshima monkeys were washing sweet potatoes -- the exact number is not known.
Let us suppose that when the sun rose one morning there were 99 monkeys on Koshima Island who had learned to wash their sweet potatoes.
Let's further suppose that later that morning, the hundredth monkey learned to wash potatoes.
THEN IT HAPPENED!
By that evening almost everyone in the tribe was washing sweet potatoes before eating them.
The added energy of this hundredth monkey somehow created an ideological breakthrough!
But notice.
A most surprising thing observed by these scientists was that the habit of washing sweet potatoes then jumped over the sea --
Colonies of monkeys on other islands and the mainland troop of monkeys at Takasakiyama began washing their sweet potatoes.
Thus, when a certain critical number achieves an awareness, this new awareness may be communicated from mind to mind.
Although the exact number may vary, this Hundredth Monkey Phenomenon means that when only a limited number of people know of a new way, it may remain the conscious property of these people. But there is a point at which if only one more person tunes-in to a new awareness, a field is strengthened so that this awareness is picked up by almost everyone!

 

[Bullet]

You know, I considered adding in that 100th Monkey story, because it's pretty interesting...but it still means that a helluva lot of us are gonna have to start acting in order for something to be part of the collective consciousness, lol. Thanks for posting that.

 

[compass]

What do you mean by "revolution"?

There are too many people, and while it is true that many people are discontent, maybe even instinctively reacting to being forced to live a life so disharmonious with nature, there are so many divergent views as to what the root problems are, that I don't see the possibility of significant uniform solidarity sufficient enough to "bring down the system". Maybe that feeling in the air is a natural disaster, like the Yellowstone volcano, or the "Big One" in socal. Not only do I think there is merit in the idea of a collective consciousness, but being that our bodies are literally products of the Earth, maybe we have a subconscious awareness of that as well. Maybe it's 2012 hahaha

 

[wizehop]

I hate to sound like a negative nancy but...

There will never be any real revolution... only change in who has the power. The "people" have never had it, nor will they ever in the future. The rules of nature have existed since day one....The strong or the ones who will do anything to have power will take it..and as long as those people exsist (and they always will) your shit out of luck.
It has nothing to do with money..money is only a symptom of something greater, whether its capatalizm, socialism, feudalism...even anarchism or any fucking ism...people will owne our asses.

I have noticed throughout my travels that no matter how far back you go, some one always had the power over others(in any system)..only back then they didnt need to create an illusion of freedom like now-a-days. From castle states to city stated to countries....

I guess shit is a lot different in the States. Because if anything I am more free now to do what I want than I would have been during any other time period in the world. Freedom is a personal thing.

This concept about being pissed at big busisness and goverment seems a bit rediculous and probobly has to do more with personal reasons.....Do what you want, be happy..who give a fuck if McDonalds sells shit food and makes billions...and who give a fuck if bush or who ever is stealing tax money....Most of us have nothing to steal anyhow!

If you have to ask to be free your not.....sure people should not have power over other people..yes..but will that ever happen...fack no.....I dont know where everyone gets off thinking shits so bad!

 

[connerR]

I hate to sound like a negative nancy but...

There will never be any real revolution... only change in who has the power. The "people" have never had it, nor will they ever in the future. The rules of nature have existed since day one....The strong or the ones who will do anything to have power will take it..and as long as those people exsist (and they always will) your shit out of luck.
It has nothing to do with money..money is only a symptom of something greater, whether its capatalizm, socialism, feudalism...even anarchism or any fucking ism...people will owne our asses.

I have noticed throughout my travels that no matter how far back you go, some one always had the power over others(in any system)..only back then they didnt need to create an illusion of freedom like now-a-days. From castle states to city stated to countries....

I guess shit is a lot different in the States. Because if anything I am more free now to do what I want than I would have been during any other time period in the world. Freedom is a personal thing.

This concept about being pissed at big busisness and goverment seems a bit rediculous and probobly has to do more with personal reasons.....Do what you want, be happy..who give a fuck if McDonalds sells shit food and makes billions...and who give a fuck if bush or who ever is stealing tax money....Most of us have nothing to steal anyhow!

If you have to ask to be free your not.....sure people should not have power over other people..yes..but will that ever happen...fack no.....I dont know where everyone gets off thinking shits so bad!

brilliant post. :applaud:

 

[theshadwdragn]

Wizehop,
First, for the vast majority of humanities (or homo sapien's) existence has been in extremely egalitarian lifestyles, . It is not till the formation of civilization in mesopotamia that the state evolved and a brutal economic system came with it and evolved (on a turbulant road) to what we have now.

Second, you say things arent bad. There is a substancial amount of homeless and exploited people even in the more civilized countries, just barely getting by, most of them on drugs. But this is not the biggest problem (as far as "things are good" is concerned). The biggest problems are imperialism and globalization (producing the mass sufering and impoverished conditions of third world countries). Looking at the product of the beast we call capitalism and the state, conditions are horrible.

Third, the revolution may not be coming swiftly, but in my opinion as long as the people are resisting and the movement grows larger, things are looking good.
shadwdragn

 

[JoeGerminate]

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead

wizehop,
it is exactly that attitude which prevents any real revolution. if a population feels they are 'free enough' then they wont risk that freedom to obtain more freedom, end result passive masses. also looking at revolution in terms of all or nothing can be quite defeating. "only change in who has the power. The "people" have never had it" in Argentina workers took over a factory, fired their bosses and kept the factory running with no hierarchical rule governing the factory. I would concider that an instance where people held the power.

the way I see it you can wait for the end or you can actively seek it. if you wait for it you'll be waiting forever cuz it isn't going to look like what you expect it to and you wont reconize it. if you actively seek it you will be ready for it (should it come in your life time)

connerR,
why should we market ourselves, we arn't selling any product, and we damn sure dont want to become a trend.

 

[veggieguy12]

IBRRHOBO:
The 'Hundredth Monkey' phenomenon has been debunked as borne of inaccuarate study, wanting it to be so, and false reporting. It's pretty cool in concept, but has no evidential basis - sorry!

Widerstand:
You are indisputably correct that few of us are capable of living for any notable time on merely what the locale provides and what we can do in any given region.
And I, too, enjoy the products of modern Civilization: its technologies and conveniences are good for entertainment and long-distance connections.
But ultimately I don't think they're worth their costs to ecosystems, and I don't think they really give us back as much as they take from us. Truly, I do think people were and will be better-off living in a 'primitive' fashion as our ancestors did.
And the good news is that we won't be "100% self-reliant" as you say, because we will best survive being cooperative, in tribes. Such existance has worked for thousands of years for people on all continents (though few have not yet been exterminated by the Civilized).

Now, I don't look forward to hunting and gathering for daily calories, or wiping my ass with leaves or grasses. But I also don't look forward to working until I'm 85 and taking pills and visiting doctors just to stay alive, or having dentures and being unable to move without a wheelchair. We all gotta go sometime!
It seems pretty clear to me that whatever we in Civilization get, we get at the expense of zebras, and swamps, and forests, and gorilla, and moths, etc. It's like the expanded detail of a sticker I saw on someone's bike, "Less Babies / More Wilderness".

As for the Revolution... the UN says the next World War will be fought over water. And Einstein said "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." So either we, the little people, the ruled, will rise up against our masters, or we will obey their orders to secure more territory and fortune and annihilate ourselves. That's the Revolution.
The revolution, on the other hand - not in conflict with the Revolution - is whether we make some serious, drastic changes in the way we live upon the Earth, or will the Earth impose those changes upon us? If we are to have any future, if the rest of the biosphere is to have any future, we must choose the former before we meet the latter.

 

[bote]

good post

 

[IBRRHOBO]

veggieguy: never said that it was a 'CASE IN POINT'. perhaps read my quote as it said '...along the lines...' in addressing your return to primal living, what are your HONEST estimates of the percentage of folks on planet earth who would give up what they have to save the zebra? let's keep it real. oh, it's a 'nobel' thought and probably good for the wine socials, but it's not going to happen. as to tribes, what are nations? i mean what do you do just throw the switch? roll out the printing presses to circulate unabomber manefestos? shit! you gonna be the one to start telling women with breast cancer, 'sorry, the zebra lives and you die.' you gonna take a stand against those with diabetes that they die, but the swamp lizard lives? gonna tell the mentally challenged that they die 'cause we're a primitive world now and we can't afford to keep them around? remember, that's how IT IS in primitive culture. and keeping it really REAL you think racism is bad now? fuck, flip the switch. you ain't seen shit!

 

[veggieguy12]

veggieguy: never said that it was a 'CASE IN POINT'. perhaps read my quote as it said '...along the lines...' in addressing your return to primal living, what are your HONEST estimates of the percentage of folks on planet earth who would give up what they have to save the zebra? let's keep it real. oh, it's a 'nobel' thought and probably good for the wine socials, but it's not going to happen. as to tribes, what are nations? i mean what do you do just throw the switch? roll out the printing presses to circulate unabomber manefestos? shit! you gonna be the one to start telling women with breast cancer, 'sorry, the zebra lives and you die.' you gonna take a stand against those with diabetes that they die, but the swamp lizard lives? gonna tell the mentally challenged that they die 'cause we're a primitive world now and we can't afford to keep them around? remember, that's how IT IS in primitive culture. and keeping it really REAL you think racism is bad now? fuck, flip the switch. you ain't seen shit!

Oh, I agree with Widerstand, that few (self included) could do it - but I think that's good. Even fewer will willingly do it.
Nations are not tribes. Tribes are, my best guess, maxed-out around something like 3,000 people. Nations are hierarchies that serve power and keep a fixed location, while tribes may have leaders but they don't make their own people slaves, and they generally move habitations in search of food, even if only within a large region.

No manifestos, no switch to throw; could tell people with disease and illness that they'll get better, but we all know that there are no guarantees. (And something like cancer specifically, among other human problems, is the result of all our alteration to the landscape.) If it comes down to it, I guess I could tell people that they "cause we're a primitive world now", but in such a situation, it really won't be necessary to tell anyone, nor will it be my decision to kill or keep anyone. Is there a bad, careless, mean lion telling the infirmed or disabled that they must die? No, their needs for survival dictate that.

 

[bote]

I can sort of understand revolution as meaningless rebellion for the sake of action, and that sounds problematic to me too, but the alternative is essentially nothing more than a predictable changing of the guard, as one political movement or group suceeds another as "leaders". I am not interested in leading or being subjected to the will of person(s) unknown.

btw IBRR, the unabomber manifesto is really long, but have you read his Ship of Fools? very interesting

The Unabomber - Ship of Fools Text

 

[theshadwdragn]

Widerstand and others,
First, i agree that if the "societal engine" just collapsed this very moment alot of people would be fucked. However, this is not relevent to my understanding of a revolution. When and if capitalism falls to a revolution i would hape that we would have a large enough movement to reasemble society from the bottom up. The workers would take control of the industries, eliminating the heirarchy of the workforce, people would start gardening and farms and food production would continue simply under the control of the workers (as was demonstrated in barcelona in 1936 where they overthrew there employers and took control of the city). I dont know why people think that after a revolution shit would just stop and turn to hell. Yes things will be tough for a while, how tough depending on numerous circumstances. My point is that a revolution would not stop all technological advances and food production etc., it would simply put the control in the hand of the people (in an anarchist revolution that is).

 

[bote]

One time a Jehovah's witness gave me a pamphlet and on it there was a depiction of post-rapture earth and it featured a very presentable nuclear family, well-combed too, living in perfect harmony with nature. The dad figure was stroking a tiger's nape, and his little girl had a baby koala clinging to her neck, she was smiling. They were knee deep in lush foliage, and in the background, tropical flowers were cropping up everywhere around a beautiful two-story house. Me I want this!

 

[Mouse]

I want a live koala necklace of my very own as well!!!