Feminism discuss

[katbastard]

my response:
I dig what you, The writing, is saying. I under stand. you might not think i do being that i am 6’4” 300lbs man with face tattoos. yes when i was younger i would mosh, but i would never rub my self on any one or try my best not to bump in to anyone outside the pit, and if i did i would always make sure they where okay. when ladies would come in the pit i would treat them the same as every one else. i know that the scene has changed alot in the last 15 years, but what happened to EQUALITY? i have the symbol, the circle E tattooed on my chin, not cuz it looks cool, but because i really believe in it, i do not under stand the trans and ladies night at the anarchist bike shop, or the lack of knowledge that all men are not fucking assholes out to her you. i am sad to think that all you will say is that i dont understand cuz i am a white male. but if there is PEOPLE at the show who are doing these things that you write about say something, don’t just take it and then write how it makes you feel, there are many men like me out there who will stand up, who wont let ass holes do shitty things to anyone. it makes me sad to see this kind of attitude in our community, its time to be proactive.

 

[XXPepper]

i totally agree. there are bad dudes and there are good dudes, and there are creepy chicks and cool chicks. everybody's got the ability to choose to be a good person, and some people don't make that choice....but to make that distinction based on gender in today's day and age brings up a lot of issues. i'm proud to be a girl, and i don't like participating in "ladies' nights" or any of that bullshit because it actually makes me feel LESS empowered. having to be segregated in order to feel safe is fucked up. i don't need to be with a gang of girls in order to have fun. if some asshole tries to pull one over on me, i handle it. i kick him in the fucking balls or punch him in the teeth and move on with my life. if he gets aggressive i turn to someone else near me and i ask for help. i always get it. i'm 5'3", 103 lbs, and i think that sexism is just as bad when it's coming from the female side. represent YOURSELF, don't make being a woman (or a man) the main focus of your existence.

 

[Puckett]

Women now days need to realize that they are alot more 'empowered' then they used to be. hey we can vote, deside if we want to kill our unborn kids or not, grow old with out a man and 50 cats, be a lesbo, and other empowering things. so when women say all their bull shit about yeah us, go us, all about us, it kinda pisses me off. because in the end were just all people.

 

[pigpen]

if by any chance the author of this ever happens to read this....

you sound like you have a head full of rocks and the cat you attempted to draw looks like a fucking pig with whiskers.

also, fall on a knife. sharp one.

if you wanna write a coherent, well regimented critique of gender relations from a feminist perspective, try reading some fucking theory on the matter first.

also, don't start sentances with "And, like,..."

 

[pigpen]

oh and my uncle is a total badass, so it would be subversive to act like him.

 

[xbocax]

Men are naturally aggressive especially when it comes to sexuality its unfortunately part of our biology. It has caused many a wars and rapes to happen for as long as time can tell. Even in the scene today you see everytthing this girl has described taking place so unless you have ever been groped or been hollered at by every other guy on the way to see a band DO NOT judge.
I who have spent much time with my lady friends know how many times a horn gets honked, glare gets thrown, a hand accidentally grazes and its not fun at all even to just be a 2nd party to. and again this has been going on forever from the cave men til now.
promiscuous women are looked at as sluts while men heros, a feisty girl is a bitch while a man would be a badass. There are just so many fucked up standards still in place today for you to just say awww cmon you have all these rights now get over it.
A friend of mine was beat by her partner in front of her friends in the punk scene and people still took sides etc etc. You as an individual may be awesome towards women but the scene by far is not. Just like when I walk down small towns looking the way I do I am alert of that truck pulling up slowly behind me, that group staring at me from across the street. Things in some ways are getting better but in many others have not changed at all. Men are hardly ever the victims of a sexual crime and if they are its generally by other men.
So just because you grew up safe and sound because of where you grew up or because your a male doesnt mean its the same for everyone else. You dont know what scene this girl was a part of or her environment so dont just look at a letter and think you have the solve all end all answer from simply reading it.

 

[plagueship]

author says specifically there is no REAL distinction between good and bad boys. so i guess all "boys" just basically might as well be considered "bad"? and so are all our parents? cool.

these are the kinds of things that seriously turn me off from feminist rants and people like gudj even though i may sympathize with a lot of what they have to say. i'm a skinny dude and i don't go to a lot of noisy shows and when i do i stand in the back and both of these are because i don't like getting roughed up. i don't like macho punk bros. i also don't like self-righteous pc kids... i don't like aggressive people in general. i hate how BOTH groups of people turn scenes/shows into battlefields where people like me that are just trying to have a good time feel increasingly uncomfortable.

if being punk for you is driven by hating your parents and/or "boys", UR DOING IT RONG, at least as wrong as the guy who's driven by going to shows to creep on girls, and both of you ought to grow the fuck up!

as usual jawbreaker said it all "bad scene, everyone's fault"

 

[plagueship]

also boca, i don't really think that rape or war is caused by biology, but maybe there's no REAL distinction.
in any case i don't agree with some of your generalizations. for instance in some of the punk scenes, and especially the pc punk circles that i have been around, people can be very quick to label a slutty male as a "creep" or worse. another instance of the mirror-world effect...

 

[Gudj]

these are the kinds of things that seriously turn me off from feminist rants and people like gudj

i'm a skinny dude and i don't go to a lot of noisy shows and when i do i stand in the back and both of these are because i don't like getting roughed up. i don't like macho punk bros.

Hey thanks for mentioning me! I totes agree, you totally turn me off to!
Anyway, again: this has less to do with how you as an individual act and more to do with patterns in our society in general. But by the way, shitty behavior that is the norm is still shitty behavior and denying that you have any of it is a copout that gets no-one anywhere.
Also, denying that the pattern of behavior being complained about either doesn't exist or isn't that important either because you identify with the group of people being criticized or you aren't part of the group experiencing the shit-end of it, is fucking stupid so shut the fuck up.
All I see in these threads is denial and defensiveness and except for xbocax, not a sliver of responsibility.

Also, katbastard:
Reading your initial post I totally recall having the exact same feelings as you. I didn't get it, even though I was trying to be openminded and respectful.
It had to be explained to me that I do not know what its like to be in the other role, and that if virtually every female or queer, or genderqueer identified person has the same complaint, that there is obviously something to it, regardless of how unclear it is to me.

I eventually let go of the idea that I needed to understand everyones complaints and perspectives on everything before I started to respect them. It doesn't fucking mattter if I completely relate to a complaint or not in order for me to do what is within reason to try to fix it. It's that simple.

 

[pigpen]

i wrote a long, well thought responce that got deleted....

so basically, don't make stupid sexist generalizations while attemping a critique from a point of view centered on equality. also fuck your good boy, bad boy dichotomy. almost everything else you said as well.

really wish i hadn't accidentaly navigated away from this page...

 

[DaisyDoom]

There are so many double standards in that it's ridiculous. Don't go to a fucking show if you can't handle the rowdiness, go see a fucking sarah mclachlin concert and shut up. There is a difference between getting bummed into in a crowded ass place and getting molested purposefully. Guys don't fuck with me like that...why? because i'll rip their fucking throat out. I dont want to sound like an arrogant ass but it's true and in general, females need to be more bad ass when it comes to defending themselves. Just like Pepper said...if a guy does shit like that, kick him in the balls and move the fuck on with your life.

feminists has been annoying me a lot lately....

 

[xbocax]

its

also boca, i don't really think that rape or war is caused by biology, but maybe there's no REAL distinction.
in any case i don't agree with some of your generalizations. for instance in some of the punk scenes, and especially the pc punk circles that i have been around, people can be very quick to label a slutty male as a "creep" or worse. another instance of the mirror-world effect...

like you said some not most. I generalized towards the majority because that is what the majority of females have to deal with.

 

[xbocax]

There are so many double standards in that it's ridiculous. Don't go to a fucking show if you can't handle the rowdiness, go see a fucking sarah mclachlin concert and shut up. There is a difference between getting bummed into in a crowded ass place and getting molested purposefully. Guys don't fuck with me like that...why? because i'll rip their fucking throat out. I dont want to sound like an arrogant ass but it's true and in general, females need to be more bad ass when it comes to defending themselves. Just like Pepper said...if a guy does shit like that, kick him in the balls and move the fuck on with your life.

feminists has been annoying me a lot lately....

As for this, I myself hate when guys and girls get too rowdy and this is not just a girl thing. Plagueship also expresses his distaste for the violence. Gudj states that just because the shittyness has been excepted doesn't make it less shitty. I find this to be tthe case for many shows especially in tthe punk scene. Before I branched out to other genres i kinda of accepted the fact that because Im a little guy Im going to get smashed by all these bigger older guys but then I got into Thrash Punk and power violence. At these shows the pits are twice as fierce music twice as fast and guess what? The pits where 1/2 as violent. You shouldnt say that if you cant handle it don't go to a show. The punk thing to do would be to realize we are all different and not all 6'3" 300lb males, or girls that grew up with alot of boys to rough house with. this isnt only the strongest survive. There are ways to have a circle pit get fierce jump and roll but also not smash the shit out of someone. Shit at the shows ive been to kids will be on their bigger siblings shoulders, people in wheelchairs have gotten in. Just because a bunch of jocks in the 80's set the precedent for a pit to be a big old macho smackdown doesnt mean thats just the way it has to be. Punk should be as inclusive as posible. What if all of a sudden every show you started going to people brought bats into the pit? would you still feel that if you cant handle it get out?[/quote]

 

[DaisyDoom]

Yeah that goes back to the point pepper made that there will be assholes everywhere that have no respect for people around them, but it has nothing to do with feminism.

 

[Beegod Santana]

Men are hardly ever the victims of a sexual crime and if they are its generally by other men.

That is a rather ignorant and fucked up statement if you ask me.

Boca, some of the shit that pours outta your mouth some days really makes me wonder.

"I who have spent much time with my lady friends know how many times a horn gets honked, glare gets thrown, a hand accidentally grazes and its not fun at all even to just be a 2nd party to. and again this has been going on forever from the cave men til now."

Really dude? To me this reads "I understand the feminist struggle because I hang out with a few girls." Of course not one other stp using male has a female friend, or girl friend, or long term partner, or sister, or female room mate. Thank god we have you, who has spent so much time with your lady friends that you can give us an enlightened view of the subject and pass judgment off guilt free upon the community.

Basically you sound like some loser trying to get laid.

 

[xbocax]

That is a rather ignorant and fucked up statement if you ask me.

Boca, some of the shit that pours outta your mouth some days really makes me wonder.

"I who have spent much time with my lady friends know how many times a horn gets honked, glare gets thrown, a hand accidentally grazes and its not fun at all even to just be a 2nd party to. and again this has been going on forever from the cave men til now."

Really dude? To me this reads "I understand the feminist struggle because I hang out with a few girls." Of course not one other stp using male has a female friend, or girl friend, or long term partner, or sister, or female room mate. Thank god we have you, who has spent so much time with your lady friends that you can give us an enlightened view of the subject and pass judgment off guilt free upon the community.

Basically you sound like some loser trying to get laid.

it may be a fucked up thing to say but can you deny that it is generally true?
have you ever participated in a rape victims circle?
have you ever taken any classes or read any books on the subject at hand?
I never said I completely understand anything just that I have experienced 1st hand some of the struggles my female friends have had to go through
and the whole getting laid thing grow up dude
you took a long time making some half assed remarks about my character and contributed nothing to the topic sounds like you have some underlying issues

 

[xbocax]

hereyago fucknut

Since only a small percentage of acts of sexual violence are brought to the attention of the authorities, it is impossible to compile accurate statistics. There are nevertheless statistical estimates published by some official bodies. The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (1999) estimated that 91% of United States rape victims were female and 9% were male, with 99% of the offenders being male and 1% of the offenders being female.

 

[Mouse]

can someone explain to me what moshing has to do with feminism?

 

[Beegod Santana]

As we all know men are MUCH less likely to report rape or sexual abuse, I don't need a statistic to prove that.
I have helped several people with the aftermath of rape and sexual abuse over time. I know it ain't pretty. Also as a white male I've had to defend myself from sexual assault many times over my life. Once the person I was defending myself against was a female member of my extended family (it was 11yrs old vs. 41). Also the US bureau of justice statistics doesn't take in to account prison rape.

I feel my statement is relevant because not one female who responded seemed to agree with the girl who wrote this rant, but you seemed to feel that you where somehow qualified to represent a woman's viewpoint on the matter because you spent a lot of time hanging out with your "lady friends."

 

[acrata4ever]

hmmm if your the front woman and cant double as security i suggest hiring someone who can throw people off stage pick them up by the ankles and drop them on their heads. take some band money and invest in chicken wire. it works good and will stop a bottle from meeting your face. another good idea is to play the dyke circuit. i never had a problem getting paid in gigi deniscos backup band. wed do a whole set of 50s and surf some stones and ramones then gigi would get up and do 5 acoustic songs with titles like dancing horses and my lover flies. and wed just drink beer that the lesbian owner gave us generously. and bottled beer not that draft piss. the drugs are also good lesbians are very generous. there was just no pussy sceen but the pay is great and a lesbian owner always pays unlike these cheap redneck biker fucks who make me go through the trash counting bottles to show them theyre liars and the till did hit over 1500. a big scarey bassplayer or drummer will also aid you in getting blood from a stone. but yeah i suggest the dyke rock circuit. good people good free buzz and no icky smelly boys rubbing their non rubber dicks against you ewww yuck!