Would you find a "no hard drugs" sign to be discriminatory?

[AnOldHope]

Alright, be nice to the old man, you kids. Technology has driven cultural acceleration to the point where you are advancing exponentially faster than in my time, even faster than my generation sped ahead of my parents. So really, from your perspective you should think of me as like a particularly slow-witted Amish person, who simply does not understand your culture, but would like to learn.

If there were an invitation-only camping spot on private land with wifi, power, water, etc, for an installation art project, but the rule was "no hard drugs", would you find that discriminatory? Would that be considered too square, a policy of The Man, establishment, wrong?

 

[beersalt]

First off, I truly appreciate you inquiring. It's nice when people do their best to have an open mind and explore new ideas. To the point: I don't think that'd be discriminatory at all. I would try and be more specific on what you count as hard drugs. Some people consider LSD and DMT ect to be a "hard drug" while others don't. If I had a space like that I'd certainly have a similar policy, no meth, crack (cocaine would be ok, again needing to be specific what counts as a hard drug) herion ect. That's just for the safety of the space and the retention of the natural area. Not that people who use those substances are bad people, I'm a recovering heroin addict myself and occasionally still use other opiates like morphine to appease the itch now and then. I have a lot of love for people struggling with those substances and believe everyone has the right to put anything they please to put in their body but it doesn't have to happen in your space. I'd be way more apt to say it would discriminate if you said "no drugs" Also would you consider boozes to be a hard drug? I find that causes more problems than most other substances (as I'm drinking saki with @creature ) lol

 

[OutsideYourWorld]

Not discriminatory at all. I guess it might be by definition, but, y'know.

We all probably know how certain drugs can change a person. Some very fine people can become monsters. But like was said above, what exactly counts as "hard" is more or less up to the person who is talking about it.

 

[AnOldHope]

First off, I truly appreciate you inquiring. It's nice when people do their best to have an open mind and explore new ideas. To the point: I don't think that'd be discriminatory at all. I would try and be more specific on what you count as hard drugs. Some people consider LSD and DMT ect to be a "hard drug" while others don't. If I had a space like that I'd certainly have a similar policy, no meth, crack (cocaine would be ok, again needing to be specific what counts as a hard drug) herion ect. That's just for the safety of the space and the retention of the natural area. Not that people who use those substances are bad people, I'm a recovering heroin addict myself and occasionally still use other opiates like morphine to appease the itch now and then. I have a lot of love for people struggling with those substances and believe everyone has the right to put anything they please to put in their body but it doesn't have to happen in your space. I'd be way more apt to say it would discriminate if you said "no drugs" Also would you consider boozes to be a hard drug? I find that causes more problems than most other substances (as I'm drinking saki with @creature ) lol

You make strong point, alcohol (which I would not forbid) is as likely more a cause or to be associated with aggression than most ostensibly hard drugs.

I guess my specific worry is meth.

What I would not have a problem with would be weed, shrooms/psilo, peyote/mescaline, lsd, etc.

I suppose I would exclude the so called "synthetic marijuana", which I find somewhat misname.

My concern with heroin is that I am well outside services range for emergency response except by helicopter. I am ill equipped and unqualified to respond in the instance of an overdose.

I think anyone in recovery should be welcome, and that achievement should be incentivized.

 

[Kim Chee]

I think it is good policy.

I'd extend it to include bad behavior as a result of soft drug use too because hard drugs aren't the only drugs which people can get stupid on.

 

[beersalt]

You make strong point, alcohol (which I would not forbid) is as likely more a cause or to be associated with aggression than most ostensibly hard drugs.

I guess my specific worry is meth.

What I would not have a problem with would be weed, shrooms/psilo, peyote/mescaline, lsd, etc.

I suppose I would exclude the so called "synthetic marijuana", which I find somewhat misname.

My concern with heroin is that I am well outside services range for emergency response except by helicopter. I am ill equipped and unqualified to respond in the instance of an overdose.

I think anyone in recovery should be welcome, and that achievement should be incentivized.

You're deff on the same track I am on how I feel. Meth heads are THE WORST of all fucked up drug induced wing nut shit that I've been throu on the streets. I cannot stand tweekers most of the time, of course there's always exceptions but most of the time I find tweak heads to be the worst of the worst. Junkies (heroin addicts) usually are pretty okay sometimes they steal because of being sick but the fact you're so far from medical services it's really important to not have ODs on the property unless you wanna have a stash of narcan and wanna have to deal with stabbing kids every couple of weeks and dealing with the hyper withdraw.

 

[FrumpyWatkins]

Having heavily dabbled in hard drugs, no this is a smart and wise thing to do. No one wants an active drug addict living with them. At least no one wanted me around at my worst. Booze is tricky, and in my experiences with places like you've described booze is often permitted, however over use is frowned upon. A few collective farms, communes, and squats, which will remain nameless, I've visited come to mind. If you're far enough away from society booze kind of weeds itself out, being that it isn't readily available. Which is exactly the problem with letting a fiend into your camp, when the substances run out, they need to go get more or they will start to detox and try to do something drastic (i.e. steal a vehicle and your money to go find drugs).

HOWEVER a place far in the wilderness took me in once at my worst and let me get clean from heroin and cocaine in their presence and it honestly saved my life at the time. I was several hundred miles from anything, and I wasn't going anywhere. I'm not a hippy dippy type, but god bless them. Some of the best times I've ever had were in those few months. Granted there was copious homemade alcohol use, but hey, I wasn't sticking a needle in my arm anymore.

 

[AnOldHope]

I think it is good policy.

I'd extend it to include bad behavior as a result of soft drug use too because hard drugs aren't the only drugs which people can get stupid on.

Bad behavior is typical stuff, stealing, needless brawling, etc?

 

[AnOldHope]

You're deff on the same track I am on how I feel. Meth heads are THE WORST of all fucked up drug induced wing nut shit that I've been throu on the streets. I cannot stand tweekers most of the time, of course there's always exceptions but most of the time I find tweak heads to be the worst of the worst. Junkies (heroin addicts) usually are pretty okay sometimes they steal because of being sick but the fact you're so far from medical services it's really important to not have ODs on the property unless you wanna have a stash of narcan and wanna have to deal with stabbing kids every couple of weeks and dealing with the hyper withdraw.

No, I'm Eric Stoltz in Pulp Fiction.

 

[AnOldHope]

Having heavily dabbled in hard drugs, no this is a smart and wise thing to do. No one wants an active drug addict living with them. At least no one wanted me around at my worst. Booze is tricky, and in my experiences with places like you've described booze is often permitted, however over use is frowned upon. A few collective farms, communes, and squats, which will remain nameless, I've visited come to mind. If you're far enough away from society booze kind of weeds itself out, being that it isn't readily available. Which is exactly the problem with letting a fiend into your camp, when the substances run out, they need to go get more or they will start to detox and try to do something drastic (i.e. steal a vehicle and your money to go find drugs).

HOWEVER a place far in the wilderness took me in once at my worst and let me get clean from heroin and cocaine in their presence and it honestly saved my life at the time. I was several hundred miles from anything, and I wasn't going anywhere. I'm not a hippy dippy type, but god bless them. Some of the best times I've ever had were in those few months. Granted there was copious homemade alcohol use, but hey, I wasn't sticking a needle in my arm anymore.

This is fascinating, is it okay to ask about the place in the wilderness? Was it large? They farmed? Animals?

I had to start with a truncated form of the goat fence, because the coyotes want to fuck my dog.

 

[FrumpyWatkins]

This is fascinating, is it okay to ask about the place in the wilderness? Was it large? They farmed? Animals?

I had to start with a truncated form of the goat fence, because the coyotes want to fuck my dog.

Horses, chickens, dogs, not travelers. Yes some farming, more gardening, and timber work. Hot/Greenhouses. Crafts too. I don't even remember the first week I was there, it was kind of embarrassing, I was coming off a savage run. They forgave me, but unfortunately we don't see as eye to eye on some stuff of my life choices the last couple years and aren't close anymore. It was in the south east, Carolinas/Georgia/Tennesee area.

 

[AnOldHope]

Horses, chickens, dogs, not travelers. Yes some farming, more gardening, and timber work. Hot/Greenhouses. Crafts too. I don't even remember the first week I was there, it was kind of embarrassing, I was coming off a savage run. They forgave me, but unfortunately we don't see as eye to eye on some stuff of my life choices the last couple years and aren't close anymore. It was in the south east, Carolinas/Georgia/Tennesee area.

Oh shit, so like a full on operation. Right on.

I'm going to try to do it micro style, very fluid, I'm going to build up infrastructure and make a film of it, each person will build part of the art installation, I'm going to include a concrete wall, on one side I'll paint white and show movies, on the other, each person who comes through will get a space to leave a message in case the archaelogists find this big wall in the middle of the desert a thousand years out.

I need to get the 500 gallon water tank, the trailer, and pick up a salvageable trailer/5th wheel or whatever for the first Artist Sleep/Read/Fuck/UseInternet Pod.

 

[FrumpyWatkins]

Oh shit, so like a full on operation. Right on.

I'm going to try to do it micro style, very fluid, I'm going to build up infrastructure and make a film of it, each person will build part of the art installation, I'm going to include a concrete wall, on one side I'll paint white and show movies, on the other, each person who comes through will get a space to leave a message in case the archaelogists find this big wall in the middle of the desert a thousand years out.

I need to get the 500 gallon water tank, the trailer, and pick up a salvageable trailer/5th wheel or whatever for the first Artist Sleep/Read/Fuck/UseInternet Pod.

This sounds promising! Build a greenhouse!

 

[FrumpyWatkins]

Now that I think of it, I did this same routine I described, in Vermont once before too.

 

[AnOldHope]

This sounds promising! Build a greenhouse!

I don't have enough water to grow, no well. I can haul enough for me and the goats and chickens and dogs, but not really enough to grow much.

 

[FrumpyWatkins]

I don't have enough water to grow, no well. I can haul enough for me and the goats and chickens and dogs, but not really enough to grow much.

What is the average annual rainfall? Rain collection? What kind of acreage are you working with?

 

[AnOldHope]

What is the average annual rainfall? Rain collection? What kind of acreage are you working with?

10 inches, split pretty flat between the seasons, I've got two acres.

 

[Archon Haz]

Seems totaly legit to me, I would be more inclined to camp somewhere if there weren't any Junkies or Tweakers (without going in to the difrence of use and abuse). I mean, in the Slabs - whictch is a fairly open minded place - the internet cafe is pretty blunt about no tweeking, never heard anyone complain about it.

 

[AnOldHope]

Seems totaly legit to me, I would be more inclined to camp somewhere if there weren't any Junkies or Tweakers (without going in to the difrence of use and abuse). I mean, in the Slabs - whictch is a fairly open minded place - the internet cafe is pretty blunt about no tweeking, never heard anyone complain about it.

Makes sense.

The phrase "pretty blunt about no tweeking" makes me think "do they tweek about blunts" for some reason.

 

[tacopirate]

Sounds like an interesting idea @AnOldHope
Do you have much experience with permaculture? I ran a community garden in Detroit and we did veggies, mushrooms, chickens, and even tobacco. Water collection is key, as stated. I'd love to hear more about it!

As for the hard drugs, definitely no meth. When I was in Detroit we didn't have that problem, but we did have junkies leaving needles everywhere. I'm no saint and have done my share of hard drugs, but that's just bad form. So is the tweaking I've seen out west. Good of you to ask, though.