Workamping in the Eastern Seirras Sucks

[Coywolf]

What @iamwhatiam said

Plus, you are not taking into account the political power of the outdoor industry. A majority of it comes from hunting, fishing, boating, ATV, ECT. A very small percentage of actual political power comes from people who like to strap on a backpack and hit a wilderness area....with the exception of the Sierra club and the NC.

These people need to be allies, not made out to be some redneck yahoos with not respect for the land.

Some of the best land managers I've met have been hunters and fisherman.

You seem to be all ideals and not really have alot of real world experience in this endeavor.

John Muir, Teddy Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot.....these are just a few famous wildrness advocates who happened to also be sportsman.

What we need to do is get this group to call out the dumbasses that claim to be a part of it. Because public land and wilderness is just as important to them as wilderness advocates and environmentalists like me.

Also, pleas don't confuse ANYWHERE/ANYONE in the east, with public lands in the West. It's a whole different ballgame. It's not even the same sport.

All you need for proof of that is comparing Thoreau to Muir.

 

[Coywolf]

My point with political power is that, it is what creates and sustains laws. Such as the Wilderness Act, the Antiquities Act, and ARPA.

Without powerful political allies that value the outdoors, this country would resemble Europe.

 

[SaltyCrew]

The wilderness should be a place we are permitted to enter only temporarily and after we've proven we can respect its wildness.

Lol...how would you ever provide for yourself, if that was your goal, with this mentality? Did Lewis and Clark pull over at Taco Bell when they got hungry?

Now I mushroom hunt and forage and have clocked a lot of hours in backcountry by myself,

Somebody that really loves the wilderness takes nothing back with them because they know that makes it less wild.

You've done gone and contradicted yourself now.

It is already tge case that you cannot get more than 7 miles from a road in the US.

You've never been more than 7 miles from a road? You should explore more, in my opinion. Keep wandering, you'll get more than 7 miles from a road eventually.

 

[SaltyCrew]

I did trace the leak and the mechanic I took it to confirmed it was likely a bad intake manifold gasket. It's a 1999 gmc Savanna. I haven't done anything but clean things up as best I can so I cant totally confirm that until I do. It's a real pain to work on these things unfortunately.

The intake manifold gaskets are $10 for the set. You can completely remove the intake manifold from the engine in about an hour, 2 if you watch a YouTube video. Make sure to clean all the old excess gasket gunk from the machined surfaces so you get a good seal with the new gaskets.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...5385,engine,intake+manifold+gasket+/+set,5424

 

[dumpster harpy]

anybody in this thread familiar with the term ecofascism?

 

[roughdraft]

anybody in this thread familiar with the term ecofascism?

afraid not, but I am curious- will you tell us about this term?

 

[dumpster harpy]

"Ecofascism is a theoretical political model in which a totalitarian government would require individuals to sacrifice their own interests to the "organic whole of nature" and which would rely on "militarism, expansionism, and possibly racism to defend the land"."

i.e. believing in setting up and enforcing exclusion zones to "protect nature" whether in the outwardly totalitarian "force everyone into cities" model, or even our current dominant model of conservation being used primarily to protect extractive industries while promoting "outdoorsmanship" , neither are possible without the ongoing genocide and erasure of indigenous peoples. Much of this is perpetuated by the myth of precolonial America as a "vast, untouched wilderness" as opposed to being a complex network of peoples with an uncountable variety of lifeways and relationships with the land.

 

[Coywolf]

"Ecofascism is a theoretical political model in which a totalitarian government would require individuals to sacrifice their own interests to the "organic whole of nature" and which would rely on "militarism, expansionism, and possibly racism to defend the land"."

i.e. believing in setting up and enforcing exclusion zones to "protect nature" whether in the outwardly totalitarian "force everyone into cities" model, or even our current dominant model of conservation being used primarily to protect extractive industries while promoting "outdoorsmanship" , neither are possible without the ongoing genocide and erasure of indigenous peoples. Much of this is perpetuated by the myth of precolonial America as a "vast, untouched wilderness" as opposed to being a complex network of peoples with an uncountable variety of lifeways and relationships with the land.

There is alot to divulge there. And not all of it is related. I'm familiar with this term.

Many BS right wing fanatic survivalist groups use this as a argument against Wilderness designations.

But yes. It's possible. And frankly, I do believe that most human habitation, if industrialized, should be contained to metropolitan areas.

Why? Well, for one thing, our planet wouldn't survive in any other instance. Vast areas of oxygen regenerating plants would be wiped out, fauna critical to ecosystems would be eradicated, and life as we know it (outside of the Truman show( would cease

Yes, I understand some people are fanatics, but when we allow these sorts views to become paranoia, we will make this political system even worse than it already is. just look at the current administration.

The environment is good, capitalism will destroy it, and greed when it comes to overpopulation and industrialism is bad. This is just my opinion, speaking in voice to text, while my keyboard is broken, and I'm slightly drunk. So forgive me if my description is not up to par. I will update with a moor inclusive opinion upon my return to social media and soberness.

 

[WyldLyfe]

I have not heard of the term Ecofascism before but what u described it as i have heard of that, theres a map of what they have planned for the usa.. hopefully they fail, cus trapping people in city an urban areas only is not good for them they need nature they are nature.

 

[Jimmy Beans]

speaking in voice to text, while my keyboard is broken, and I'm slightly drunk. So forgive me if my description is not up to par

Interesting, even while drunk you're able to use punctuation and separate paragraphs. I guess all those claims by what's his fuck DontPanic that his talk to text doesn't allow the use of periods, commas and paragraphs resulting in massive walls of text/run on paragraphs turns out to be complete bullshit, he's just a horrible writer. I had a feeling.

 

[Gulysses3]

I don’t think the actual act of hunting helps animals, but the money raised from hunters and the habitat purchased, protected, maintained, etc., is probably extremely critical to survival of many species. I don’t hunt anymore myself but I spend as much time as I can fly fishing. I’ll never understand why some people are too friggin’ lazy to pick up after themselves. We’ve been camp hosts once. I’d do it again if I go too long between programming projects. Dealing with people is a challenge at times.

 

[RoadFlower33]

We knew a couple that absolutely loved their job hosting at Pinecrest, about 20 years ago. They moved around the state to a new location each season.When they needed something, one would stay, the other would do whatever needed doing off-site, including making regular forays back to their home in the Bay area to collect mail, see their kids and grandkids, etc. . According to them, they were required to clean the restrooms twice per day. There were four sets of restrooms, they shared the duties, and it did not take them long to do the job each day. They sold firewood, had jam sessions with friends most nights in their site, and only had to pay friendly visits to ne’re do wells asking them to cease and desist with any bad behavior, before passing the problem off to a park ranger.

That is the pattern I’ve seen camping in state campgrounds - a retired couple with a truck and camper, a second vehicle for trips out to civilization. Sounds to me as if you did not really think it through, it is not ideal if you’re without help.

20 years ago ppl were alot more respectful of others and nature. Just saying... also, fat lazy rich capitalists Americans are all the same. I'm in Idaho God damn most beautiful state we have I'm in McCall right now I don't have to be a park ranger or f****** Campground manager to know that yuppies are f****** s*** people when it comes to the forest. motherfukers around here trash everything leave their s*** everywhere literally s*** everywhere, they will f****** s*** in the middle of a campground leave it diarrhea s*** all over the f****** bathroom stall for a city worker clean up no it's not the campground job they decided to take alone...it's the f****** s*** disgusting people we have in America. Self riotous unaware greedy lazy unhealthy nieve waste of oxygen humans... around here the locals clean up trash on their spare time because if we don't it wouldn't get done we clean up campsites during the week it is really sad. The plus side is everyone leaves eventualy and we have a few months of peace. Its -30 outside, but peacfull... and im talking about an entire town and surrounding forest, lakes, rivers, streams meadows, brundages. not just a park area.

 

[Older Than Dirt]

No dog in this fight, and have seen some awful abuse of nature by country folk, city folk, hunters, even bird-watchers, so plenty of blame to go around, but just have to say/ask:

Its -30 outside

Huh? Overnight low of 48 in McCall Idaho, tomorrow high of 72, mostly sunny with isolated thunderstorms, according the National Weather Service

brundages

WTF is a brundage?

 

[Jimmy Beans]

Huh? Overnight low of 48 in McCall Idaho, tomorrow high of 72,

Read that portion again. It's super easy to see he doesn't mean currently. He's talking about having a break from all the tourism which happens just about everywhere usually when? Usually the worst part of the winter.

 

[Older Than Dirt]

Ok, fair enough. I don't think anything about that post was super easy or even easy to make out.

I still want to know what is a brundage? It appears from context to be a thing like "lakes, rivers, streams meadows"?

 

[roughdraft]

brundage is supposedly a small streamside pasture, but it sounds too much like 'grundle' for my liking

 

[Jimmy Beans]

I still want to know what is a brundage? It appears from context to be a thing like "lakes, rivers, streams meadows"?

In that context I agree, and a lot of it is confusing. I've only ever heard the word brundage once in my lifetime which was the title of a documentary a friend of mine made called "Bones of Brundage" but I don't know how that would relate. I think it's the name of a road in Bakersfield which is where the documentary was set. But to name a road that leads me to believe it's gotta be a word, just not very popular in use?

I did a google search and found only one reference to the word as far as definitions and it wasn't a very solid source. It mentioned something about a pasture as @roughdraft mentioned. I decided to go deeper and google "McCall Idaho Brundage" and I believe we might have something here. Apparently it's a ski resort, probably what @BirdDaddy is referring to. Maybe autocorrect tossed an "s" on the end to keep things interesting, idk.

 

[RoadFlower33]

A Brundage is a place of pastures and streams. Brundage Mountain the ski resort is in fact named after this because it overlooks them in all directions is the tallest mtn in its direct vicinity and is named rather correctly in my opinion. Beside the point. All yuppies suck, it dosent matter, you can't generalize or stereotypical any population of any culture of anyplace anywhere anytime we here on STP should fucking know that better than anybody people in general suck opinions are opinions. believed by whoever is dumb enough to listen. we are egotistical f****** humans this whole conversation of this person that person where they come from and how they got be who they are f****** judgmental b******* and it shouldn't be happening on squat the planet. FUCKING SERIOUSLY. The whole point is managing a part that's visited by mostly racist white yuppies who have no respect for the Earth sucks yeah I imagine it does if sucks living in a beautiful place respecting and loving it and watching others tear it apart it's everywhere everywhere what are we going to do to change it? That's not a rhetorical question either. seriously we are the activists of this country.

 

[fimbulvetr]

Big generalization there. Would love for you to head up to somewhere like Alaska, with that attitude, and tell all the subsistence hunters/fishers how horrible they are and see how far that gets you. If anything, the advent of agriculture and factory farming livestock has fucked up this planet more than hunters have or ever will. I would much rather have to deal with a few assholes who leave their beer cans in the woods or a hook in a fish, then assholes who clearcut a large section of forest so they can monocrop their GMO corn or soy to feed their cows and pump the earth full of chemicals.

There is nothing wrong with hunting for your meat. It's hard to take you seriously when you start preaching shit like that. Sure, there are assholes in all walks of life but it makes you look like a fool when you make a generalization like that.

By nature killing is cruel, from that axiom I am totally willing to deduce that not recognizing that is stupid. So I fail to see how this is a generalizatrion. You cannot be a hunter and not be cruel, so either it's plain stupidity or cognative dissonance and refusal to engage with empathy which is a lack of emotional awareness which stems from stupidity. Now I think that can change with some education.

Now to address your other points. You are building a strawman argument out of things I never professed support for. I am anti-hunting, I am anti-fishing and I am also anti-monocrop farming. I have no problem with GMO's inherently, but with the companies that amount to patent trolls, patenting genetics and the reasons they GMO crops to be round-up ready and the like(where round-up has been linked repeatedly to cancer). I think we can have a really great agricultural system if we replace all the cattle land with organic farms that don't practice monoculture.

Now I know from looking at data that is readily available that raising animals for meat requires more land for crops to feed them than if we just ate plants. Thats a fact. Now extrapolate that to the wildlands. The deer people shoot, were out here grazing, by not allowing predators like wolves to thrive and work naturally on deer populations so that we can hunt them, we are literally changing the landscape of America. This was documented in Yellowstone. Farmers around Yellowstone hunted the wolves there into extinction, that led to a massive overpopulation of deer that began to thrive in places they dare not go when the wolves were there. They ate the plants away from riverbeds which literally changed the path of the rivers. When wolves were re-introduced it went back to it's normal path. By eating only plants, we actually use and abuse less wildnerness land than if we allow people to hunt. Next it's not just a few hunters in woods. Go to Pennsylvania during hunting season. You can look up on the gamelands by the AT there and see those blaze orange jackets every 30 yards or so. I'm amazed there areen't more hunting accidents. What I am not amazed by is thee sheer amount of trash they leave behind. You kick the dirt there and some buried trash goes flying. It's not THAT bad here in the seirras, but it's closer than you would expect for how remote it is. I went hiking up by trumble lake, which is supposed to be a remote area, but I found trash bags full of cans all over the place, bullet casings and evidence people were up there plinking cans without regard for the lead in the ammunition, which ends up in the lake over time, which bio-accumulates in the fish, which then they likely eat and it bio-accumulates in humans as well.

There are many problems with hunting for your meat, many of which I just laid out. Ignoring those problems because you just like meat so damn much is cognitive dissonance, it's basically willful ignorance and is stupid. You can educate yourself and become less stupid. I used to eat meat. I don't anymore, largely because of my love of animals and the wild places that are better off with no people around, because we feel entitled to take from those places. Why are you entitled to the life you took, or the land you took it on if you are willing to give nothing back to that land? The best way to give back is to support re-introduction of predators and to interact with that land as little as possible. Leave no trace. No garbage, no bullet casings, no fishing lines, no beer cans, nothing.

 

[iamwhatiam]

By nature killing is cruel, from that axiom I am totally willing to deduce that not recognizing that is stupid. So I fail to see how this is a generalizatrion. You cannot be a hunter and not be cruel, so either it's plain stupidity or cognative dissonance and refusal to engage with empathy which is a lack of emotional awareness which stems from stupidity. Now I think that can change with some education.

Now to address your other points. You are building a strawman argument out of things I never professed support for. I am anti-hunting, I am anti-fishing and I am also anti-monocrop farming. I have no problem with GMO's inherently, but with the companies that amount to patent trolls, patenting genetics and the reasons they GMO crops to be round-up ready and the like(where round-up has been linked repeatedly to cancer). I think we can have a really great agricultural system if we replace all the cattle land with organic farms that don't practice monoculture.

Now I know from looking at data that is readily available that raising animals for meat requires more land for crops to feed them than if we just ate plants. Thats a fact. Now extrapolate that to the wildlands. The deer people shoot, were out here grazing, by not allowing predators like wolves to thrive and work naturally on deer populations so that we can hunt them, we are literally changing the landscape of America. This was documented in Yellowstone. Farmers around Yellowstone hunted the wolves there into extinction, that led to a massive overpopulation of deer that began to thrive in places they dare not go when the wolves were there. They ate the plants away from riverbeds which literally changed the path of the rivers. When wolves were re-introduced it went back to it's normal path. By eating only plants, we actually use and abuse less wildnerness land than if we allow people to hunt. Next it's not just a few hunters in woods. Go to Pennsylvania during hunting season. You can look up on the gamelands by the AT there and see those blaze orange jackets every 30 yards or so. I'm amazed there areen't more hunting accidents. What I am not amazed by is thee sheer amount of trash they leave behind. You kick the dirt there and some buried trash goes flying. It's not THAT bad here in the seirras, but it's closer than you would expect for how remote it is. I went hiking up by trumble lake, which is supposed to be a remote area, but I found trash bags full of cans all over the place, bullet casings and evidence people were up there plinking cans without regard for the lead in the ammunition, which ends up in the lake over time, which bio-accumulates in the fish, which then they likely eat and it bio-accumulates in humans as well.

There are many problems with hunting for your meat, many of which I just laid out. Ignoring those problems because you just like meat so damn much is cognitive dissonance, it's basically willful ignorance and is stupid. You can educate yourself and become less stupid. I used to eat meat. I don't anymore, largely because of my love of animals and the wild places that are better off with no people around, because we feel entitled to take from those places. Why are you entitled to the life you took, or the land you took it on if you are willing to give nothing back to that land? The best way to give back is to support re-introduction of predators and to interact with that land as little as possible. Leave no trace. No garbage, no bullet casings, no fishing lines, no beer cans, nothing.

Life takes other life to sustain it. When you eat tofu or vegetables, you are still taking a life. I won't let anyone make me feel guilty for taking a life because o like the taste of meat. If that makes me stupid or a bad person in your eyes I really don't give a fuck. I do it responsibly. I never take more than I need and I don't trash the land. Many other hunters and fisherman have the same principles. Even when I harvest plants from the wild, I'm conscious of how much I take.

I've given back to the land quite a bit picked up more than my fair share of trash in the woods and have helped with numerous rehabilitation projects in the states, helping plant endangered and native plants.