There is no such thing as Clean/Green Energy

[Deleted member 125]

please remember keep the discussion civil.

 

[FenrirFox]

What is "modern common sense" supposed to mean? Is it necessarily true/correct?

Keep it civil? You have been calling me a wingnut.

 

[Dameon]

There's no such thing as a 100% perfectly clean way to generate power without affecting anything at all, no. That's completely impossible by the laws of physics.

That doesn't mean there aren't cleanER ways to generate power. Just because we can't do it perfectly with zero impact doesn't mean that we shouldn't care at all about relative impact. Burning coal is extremely dirty. Some stuff you're flat out wrong about; you can make solar panels without using any fossil fuels at all ( https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/making-solar-energy-without-fossil-fuel/ ), and even the ones that use fossil fuels are a one time investment of oil over 10 years or so, and the plastic can be recycled, as well as the rare earth minerals involved in making them. The impact of energy sources isn't black and white. It's not all or none.

Your argument is the equivalent of saying "there's no food that's 100% healthy for you, so you should live off ice cream and candy all the time".

 

[Odin]

 

[roughdraft]

you make some good points (never considered animals being attracted to solar panels thinking it's a pool of water...but i could imagine this being true)

my opinion is just do not trip...you need to recognize "clean" energy is just a buzzword. no one 'above average intelligence' is really convinced anything artificial is going to be 100% "clean" relative to its impact on nature. what we want is cleanER but most people clap their hands and cheer at buzzwords and not 'boring' detailed breakdowns of shtuff

the truth is more complicated =/= 'clean energy is a trap'

say the cleaner system still requires oil - it's so much significantly less oil that they can call it "clean" and it be relatively true

make sense?

also don't take comments from @SlankyLanky personally, (i think) that's just how he shows affection

good luck on your journey whatever way you slice it it's a fullon shitshow

yes humanity is very fucked up but whatever

 

[Free Jones]

still, honestly, if you live in a house it's probly better for everyone if you buy your own solar panels and maybe even build your own smaller turbine

 

[FenrirFox]

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh1Q-K-f8vQ&t=10s​

Video on the special metals needed for "renewables" along with produced toxins and pollutants that are stronger than CO2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_trifluoride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_hexafluoride#Greenhouse_gas (See Greenhouse Gas sections)

CO2 isn't the only pollutant, there are actually more potent ones.

Silicone has to be baked from coal. http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Silicon.html

 

[Dameon]

Video on the special metals needed for "renewables" along with produced toxins and pollutants that are stronger than CO2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_trifluoride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_hexafluoride#Greenhouse_gas (See Greenhouse Gas sections)​

CO2 isn't the only pollutant, there are actually more potent ones.

Silicone has to be baked from coal. http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Silicon.html

You're just showing that there's still environmental impact. Only any idiot would argue that we can get 100% free power that doesn't affect anything at all. For your argument to make any sense, you'd have to show that every source of power has exactly the same negative impact that every other one does. Good luck.

 

[FenrirFox]

I never argued that we can get "100% free power that doesn't affect anything at all."

"Renewables" are worse for the environment, still dependent on limited resources and just not worth making policy out of or wasting time worrying about.

Not that it matters too much since it is a false hope against the inevitable crash of modern society. I just think people waste time focusing on the "renewable and green" energy lies than learning how to live with nature if they are concerned about being ecofriendly (which I am not because I understand my situation.)

The only way to be ecofriendly is to live with nature, and I am making no claims about being ecofriendly myself. I just don't like these lies about making modern society ecofriendly.

 

[Jimmy Beans]

How is this so hard to wrap your mind around, OP? Are you familiar with the concept of sacrificing a little to save a lot? It doesn't take an ongoing amount of oil to keep solar panels going. The amount that went into the creation and transportation of those is probably extremely small compared to what they're giving back over a long period of time.

Look if you have say a pot farm right.. and one of the 12 plants you have is showing some serious signs of spider mites. You've had bad luck with neem oil and other solutions in the past but you know you can for sure save the other 11 if you remove that one that's infected immediately. It sucks to lose one but to save 11 it makes sense, right?

So yeah, we use a tiny amount of oil to make a fucking grip of solar panels. What's your solution then? To just keep on burning the limited resources that are disappearing at an extreme rate as in like won't be here any longer? We just keep burning that shit because there's no such thing as 100% pure green energy?

Do us a favor, never run for any sort of office.

 

[FenrirFox]

I would never torture myself by being one of those slimy suits in office. I hope you don't trust any of them, blue or red or green or whatever.

I don't believe anything is being saved, these things are not better for the environment than oil, they are worse.

Like I said before, there are worse pollutants than just using oil, and these "green" energies are exactly that while still using oil, even if you made the input of oil ultimately less or even zero.

We actually use tons of coal to make silicone panels, and "renewables" are resource limited still.

Use up our fuel? That is inevitable, and would actually be good for the environment. This is what will and should happen, and is also why I am not concerned.

 

[Coywolf]

Small scale hydro is clean as can be, so long as the water wheel doesnt kill anything that goes through.

Large scale hydro power kills some fishes for sure

Just wanted to say large scale hydro is one of the most destructive forms of energy when it comes to the environment, IF it takes a reservoir to produce. Look at the western watersheds.....

This entire arguement is EXACTLY what Trump wants you to think OP. DONT FALL INTO THE TRAP!

What we really gotta do is use the rest of our oil reserves to improve long distance space travel. Find some other planets with resources, and fuck them up to. What do you think the Space Force is really all about?

@Odin that is brilliant. If only it would work!

 

[Coywolf]

Ooo OOO! Wait, I got a better one...

Rise up, and force the rich to run on energy producing treadmills for 10 hours a day....would that be considered green?

 

[FenrirFox]

I don't think traveling into space would be worth the expenditure.

 

[FenrirFox]

Ooo OOO! Wait, I got a better one...

Rise up, and force the rich to run on energy producing treadmills for 10 hours a day....would that be considered green?

No, killing them would be though. You can eat them for actually green energy.

 

[Dameon]

"Renewables" are worse for the environment, still dependent on limited resources and just not worth making policy out of or wasting time worrying about.

The only way to be ecofriendly is to live with nature, and I am making no claims about being ecofriendly myself. I just don't like these lies about making modern society ecofriendly.

I don't think you've effectively proven that renewable energy is actually worse for the environment than straight-up burning coal. You're completely failing to account for the fact that the resources that go into a turbine or a solar panel are recyclable. A solar panel doesn't create the same pollution per watt it generates as just burning coal.

In your perfect "everybody lives with nature" world, do people have campfires? Because 10 billion people with their own household fires going all the time will cause untold ecological devastation from both the carbon released in the air and fires going out of control. Or do you just expect billions of people to roll over and die so you can have your utopia?

 

[TheWhiteTrashKing]

I would never torture myself by being one of those slimy suits in office. I hope you don't trust any of them, blue or red or green or whatever.

I don't believe anything is being saved, these things are not better for the environment than oil, they are worse.

Like I said before, there are worse pollutants than just using oil, and these "green" energies are exactly that while still using oil, even if you made the input of oil ultimately less or even zero.

We actually use tons of coal to make silicone panels, and "renewables" are resource limited still.

Use up our fuel? That is inevitable, and would actually be good for the environment. This is what will and should happen, and is also why I am not concerned.

They are worse??? You are fucking stupid. Just gonna say it. Ban me, whatever. People like you are part of the problem, not the solution. You actually think producing solar panels is worse for the environment than fracking, catastophic oil spills, and massive carbon emitting machines?!?! Only a wingnut dumb fuck would think that. Someone asked before, but why are you here? Trying to convince us that there is a giant renewable energy conspiracy to enslave the common people? Come on dude...

 

[FenrirFox]

Most people will not survive the crash of civilization, so there will not be the population we have today for very long. So I can have my utopia? I made no claims about utopia. It's an inevitability, no matter what you think about it.

I have shown the pollutants that are worse than CO2 that they produce.

 

[balaperdida]

Can we just skip to the point where we all come to the conclusion that ending humanity is the best solution? Save the planet, kill yourself

 

[FenrirFox]

They are worse??? You are fucking stupid. Just gonna say it. Ban me, whatever. People like you are part of the problem, not the solution. You actually think producing solar panels is worse for the environment than fracking, catastophic oil spills, and massive carbon emitting machines?!?! Only a wingnut dumb fuck would think that. Someone asked before, but why are you here? Trying to convince us that there is a giant renewable energy conspiracy to enslave the common people? Come on dude...

Producing solar panels raises the demand for these things. "Carbon emitting machines" are how solar panels are made. They also release more potent greenhouse gases than CO2.

The common people are already enslaved, and green energy is just another fantasy to try and cope with that. If it's purposefully a tool to keep people mentally enslaved is honestly hard to tell, and at this point what is an accidental lie and what is a purposeful lie becomes indistinguishable.