There is no such thing as Clean/Green Energy

[CaptainCassius]

Rare earth minerals aren't actually "rare" as in there's not many of them (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/01/renewable-energy-made-available-resources/), it's an archaic term that dates back centuries. The resources used in a solar panel and batteries are also recyclable. Nuclear, on the other hand, relies on a non-recyclable, actually rare resource. And requires a centralized power grid that gives control over your power to a large monopolistic corporation that has no responsibility to treat you like a customer and will inevitably fail in the smallest emergency. Plus, you're ignoring the wide variety of alternative energy sources like wind, geothermal, tidal, hydro, and the fact that solar panel technology is rapidly changing and improving, with development on panels that don't require rare earths.

The ideal, safe nuclear may be clean, but unfortunately we aren't ever going to get that. Managers cut corners, people make mistakes, unpredictable accidents happen, and when it breaks we all have to pay the cost. We can't just assume that the people designing, operating, and maintaining all these nuclear plants won't make any mistakes, and that there won't ever be any successful deliberate sabotage (like the way we used a computer virus to sabotage Iran's development of a nuclear plant), and that every possibility of failure is covered and protected against. Not when the stakes are so high.

I like what you've said here, I've always thought of nuclear power as one of those 'with great power comes great responsibility' types of situations, yes it can be extremely dangerous but on the other hand it is a huge achievement in the progress of energy production, technology, science, and engineering. Im glad that other forms of 'green' energy production are rapidly advancing and becoming more available, but I really think we lost out on advancements in nuclear energy because it's been dismissed as too dangerous- say what you will about the social, economic and political repercussions of that but with this many people on the planet pilfering resources and polluting we may need more than just 'green' energy to get off this rock to be able to continue and sustain this amount of growth and consumption. Or we fall prey to a massive J- curve in the population with some semblance of a near or total extinction event to return to natural balance.

 

[FenrirFox]

not really sure how asking to provide a shred of proof of yer claims is pointless or wrong, but fair enough.

You took me out of context.

 

[FenrirFox]

You think we should kill all feral cats, but not half of the human race (The most destructive species on the planet)...?
How contradictory......



You voted for Trump....didn't you?

Well you sure as hell arent going to convince anyone here to MAGA.

We smarter than that, yo!

Nothing contradictory, I am a human not a cat. I support Palestine, not Trump or any MAGAt.

 

[Jackthereaper]

I know this is an old thread, but a friend is currently looking to put low head hydro on his land. He is talking to this belgian company called turbulent along with several others. He’s looking at a 5 kw install. While its not cheap it should pay for itself in 10 years according to his calculations.

I think the turbulent units are awesome, hopefully i can one day settle onto some land with an appropriate river to install one.

https://www.turbulent.be

I am excited to see where these low impact dispersed energy generation techniques lead the world.

 

[blankityblank]

This is kind of an old thread but I think it's an interesting conversation. Nothing is ever going to be totally clean. There is always going to be some negative externality associated with any sort if energy production. I think solar is probably our best bet, maybe nuclear too but I honestly dont know much about it and dont trust the gov/corporations to not totally fuck everything up. My house is entirely run off of solar. Its bootleg as fuck but we can have a light in each room and have a way to charge a phone. I think that our set up is objectively better for the environment than us running off the grid. However, I think it can be kind of a kick in the face to some people to say it is a totally "green" energy source. There still are precious medals involved in the production of batteries and panels. Ever seen what a lithium mine looks like? Green energy still exists under capitalism. There is still brute violence, pollution, and colonization that goes into making these products on a mass scale. But that kind of goes hand in hand with most anything mass produced that you can buy I guess. Oil and gas is a pretty fucking low bar though so it's probably gotta be better

 

[obey no one]

it's hard to really tell if solar or wind are really any better or more environmentally friendly than oil. In order to even find the answer to that question would probably take years of research to figure out. They both sound like they would be better, but there is alot oil natural resources that go into producing them.

the obvious questions would be where are they made, how are materials needed to make them acquired (mining) how is that process done. how far are they shipped, etc. chasing down every little piece of the puzzle would be exhausting.

also since both solar and wind are not 100% reliable you need to have back up generators, which are often lesss efficeint to turn on and off, meaning they require more natural resources to start up and are less efficient, then larger always on generators.

the problem with them both is storing energy for off peak hours. then you just have another input with manufactureing the batteries and trying to figure out what their environmental cost is, even if the tech was there to make it work, which it is not, but it is getting better.

there are lots of possible alternatives, but like some one mentioned it's not about if they work but the amount of work required to get a unit of energy. and then trying to figure out if it is more environmentally friendly.

probably the answer would have alot to do with where you are, what resources are available in your area. as an example is it better to have a solar panel made in a third world country with poor environmental protections and shipped across the world. or is it better to use natural gas that is produced in the same state you are already in, or sugar ethanol, or tidal currents if you live on the coast or geothermal if you live in iceland.

the answer likely varies for everyone. and keeping an older gas car running is almost certainly better than buying a new hybrid with parts made all over the world.

the poster is somewhat right that traditional thinking about "green" energy is all wrong. there is no one easy answer. when the tech for a new system reaches the point that it is better & more effiecient it will take over naturally, no need for pointless laws (ethanol, nuclear).

and also the real problem is not what we are using, but how many of us are using it. everything is sustainable if there are alot less people on the planet, nothing is sustainable if our population, and our desire for stuff continues at the rate it is.

as for climate change that is part of how our world works, that is supposably how we got here as a species. climate changed and forced us to evolve. every species is tied to its environment, if it overpopulates then the things it needs to survive become more scarce, and its population crashes. we are no different. and there will be not stopping it, because the human race is evolved enough to face a problem of this time scale and size. lots of poor people all over the world want what we have, and they will not live in poverty so that we can live good.

climate change will happen no matter what, even if we werent here it would happen. some species will go extinct, some will evolve. as for our species. some of use will be fine, maybe even better off, many will not, all depends on where you are.

do the best you can, but i wouldn't worry too much about it. everything is in a constant state of change, birth, decline, death, rebirth. that is the way the world and the universe works. there is no changing it.

 

[Deleted member 13433]

It is an important topic, as I now realized that I have re-written this comment like 3x, because while it's important, this is the wrong forum for such discussions.

In Connecticut, they look for any excuse to clear cut an area, or remove entire hilltops, entire hills for that matter....

It's like they get off on destroying anything that is natural.

Right across the river from me, there is/was an active quarry run by either the Dept of Interior or maybe the Army Corps Of Engineers... anyhow, they would blast, and our homes would shake.

They only stopped after their blasting sent rocks through a pre-schools windows while children were in class.......

Everywhere I look there are more solar panels being installed and more trees being cut down, and that cannot be good on any level.

People here constantly have their faces in their i-phones and buds in their ears to seal them from the world that they live in, and god forbid if you interrupt them !!

It is beyond depressing.....

But what is even worse is the amount of time I have spent agonizing over this comment, how I should write it, should I even write it, while my poor dog downstairs just gave me this look like "Really, that laptop is more important than me ??"

No, there is nothing more important than spending time with my dog......

PS: the comment directly above mine really really nail it - well done @obey no one !!

 

[MFB]

I enjoyed reading the previous three posts. Thanks doods!

I kinda said this in @OTTERWOLF's other thread about this topic.

To me the solution isnt in finding a better way to meet energy demands,
But in finding a sustainable lifestyle that will drastically cut energy demands.

But of course we all know that will never happen. There's a large faction of Mennonites living the good life in the jungle hills of Belize, maybe it would be nice to learn more from them.