The oldest fairy tale known to date

[RoadFlower33]

Yeah, fuck all that history stuff, it's impossible to prove except with corroboration, anthropology, and archaeology. Let's talk about ghosts. Makes sense. On topic because...I guess if there's ghosts, the bible is true? I'm not seeing the connection.

I believe it was more of a comparison/ analogy thing than a stated fact. But idk I'm here with open minde. You should try it.
It's definitely a perception thing. As is most of this thread. And life...And perception being a relavenc issue upon belief systems built by life experiences... going into a ghost topic would surly change the topic of this thread. so I agree and will not peruse it here. But to go around demeaning ppl with a different point of view and pick apart there words so carful sounds like your here for a different reason. Try listining take some leave some, don't allow it to make you feel angry or bitter bro. Just let it be man. If you think it's off topic say so. Don't get agro.

 

[Dameon]

If you think it's off topic say so.

I did.

Don't get agro.

I didn't.

 

[roughdraft]

i always like reading from @Dameon he seems like a guy who really knows shit. but i do gotta ask. do you feel passionate about history? do you feel like you're totally certain of any of it's accuracy based on what you said....archaeology, anthropology....? you trust all these corroborators ?

 

[RoadFlower33]

I did.

I didn't.

See how this perception thing goes.

 

[RoadFlower33]

I also agree with @roughdraft, @Dameon has an opinion iv found to be knowledgeable, informed and thought through. I agree with both sides of the history shit and allot of the other crap on this post but let's get real. It's all a matter of opinion and nobody is wrong so to say.

 

[Matt Derrick]

not that anyone asked, but my .02 is that all religions are both wrong and right, and there is no one single answer to existence. in my opinion we're all one collective consciousness experiencing itself subjectively and nothing really matters except the journey itself.



so when reading over this, and getting upset at other people's views, or opinions of your views, just take a moment, breathe, and remember.

it's just a ride.

 

[Dameon]

i always like reading from @Dameon he seems like a guy who really knows shit. but i do gotta ask. do you feel passionate about history? do you feel like you're totally certain of any of it's accuracy based on what you said....archaeology, anthropology....? you trust all these corroborators ?

I don't think that recorded history is 100% accurate and reliable, but I do believe that much of recorded history can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, which is more provable than ghosts, which was my original point.

 

[roughdraft]

I don't think that recorded history is 100% accurate and reliable, but I do believe that much of recorded history can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, which is more provable than ghosts, which was my original point.

the best i can do to convey my point is this -> i have not witnessed history, but i have witnessed what was either a ghost or looked exactly like one. i have reason to believe it was a ghost. i can't prove that it was a ghost but I (like to) think even things that cannot be proven can be true or real. lmao....

 

[roughdraft]

not that anyone asked, but my .02 is that all religions are both wrong and right, and there is no one single answer to existence. in my opinion we're all one collective consciousness experiencing itself subjectively.

well of course everyone should put their two cents in!! the most important part is not pinning down the subjective experience but knowing what needs to be known about it - as you say, the journey - and keeping one's emotions in check is a cornerstone of it, by that I have no doubt. i would say most real and avoidable tragedies whether they happen in an instant or are prolonged happen due to emotional mismanagement...but there i go, easy words to put together - now let's see if i can avoid fucking up my actions extensively today based on that concept. xD

 

[Dameon]

the best i can do to convey my point is this -> i have not witnessed history, but i have witnessed what was either a ghost or looked exactly like one. i have reason to believe it was a ghost. i can't prove that it was a ghost but I (like to) think even things that cannot be proven can be true or real. lmao....

I've never seen the pyramids, but I've seen a little green alien in the middle of a dirt field. By your logic, little green aliens are more real than the pyramids. 'course, the problem is that the little green alien was something I saw while I was tripping on shrooms. Your temporary perceptions as an individual are unreliable; your brain can malfunction and show you things that aren't there or keep you from seeing things that are. It's easy for us humans to jump to the conclusion we want based on unreliable perceptions, when what we need to do is verify those perceptions through consensus and experimentation (some of the same tools historians use).

 

[roughdraft]

I've never seen the pyramids, but I've seen a little green alien in the middle of a dirt field. By your logic, little green aliens are more real than the pyramids. 'course, the problem is that the little green alien was something I saw while I was tripping on shrooms. Your temporary perceptions as an individual are unreliable; your brain can malfunction and show you things that aren't there or keep you from seeing things that are. It's easy for us humans to jump to the conclusion we want based on unreliable perceptions, when what we need to do is verify those perceptions through consensus and experimentation (some of the same tools historians use).

right, excellent. But is is easier to believe that the pyramids are there, same as the Eiffel Tower, without MY own eyes seeing it. rather than a complex series of events. Objective vs subjective right? I have seen enough photos of people standing in front of the Eiffel Tower, not easy to fabricate....in my opinion, history is much easier to fabricate, or really, any story. so that is not my logic.

As for the example of a little green alien while on mushrooms - my whole point in even bringing up ghosts is that I have ONLY seen them while stone cold sober - and they are not even the most controversial thing I have actually witnessed, again, sober as a rock. including when I was a mere child. I would personally never speak on things I had seen under the influence of hallucinogens in a discussion on {what is real} because that is just too easy to shoot down. How can we decide the brain is malfunctioning if I see something that resembles a ghost without ANY premonition of say....,wanting, to see one? or the presence of documented hallucination-promoting substances?

 

[RoadFlower33]

I think we got off topic.
As far as religion itself why it exsist how it is used and if it is benifical to the betterment of man is is whare it was going...
Originally (I think...) that @george990 was just ranting on how fed up with how christians who are too small minded, closed minded , concrete thinking, black and white thinking, full cup mother fuckers going around spewing their opinions, forcing their beliefs culture and publicly pointing out the faults of others and Damning them to a fucking fictional afterlife so well known as hell just bc you don't have faith in a God aka "ghost" a "myth" , legend idfk nor do I care how you call him. Honest? I don't think anybody here does. The point. I don't see any other cults, agencies, or clubs of the like ( The Machine excluded) to be going around spewing all over everyone. It's fucking annoying and I get his point. I'm sure some of the nice LDS ladies I talk to about LSD have thought about what I said. Most won't give it a second thought bc their cup is full already... What I have always liked about STP is for the most part ppl on here don't think there cup is full. In fact I believe most of us here are looking for understanding, knowledg and a different point of view than the lies fed to us by mainstream media, culture, schools... Fucking History Books!!! For God sakes.... all I'm saying is let's stop quibbling over words, empty our cups a little and we could have a good conversation here again.

I personally agree with @Matt Derrick

not that anyone asked, but my .02 is that all religions are both wrong and right, and there is no one single answer to existence. in my opinion we're all one collective consciousness experiencing itself subjectively and nothing really matters except the journey itself.



so when reading over this, and getting upset at other people's views, or opinions of your views, just take a moment, breathe, and remember.

it's just a ride.

I get pretty deep in this kinda philosophy in my own way all the time. I love hearing other praspectivs, ideas and experiences bc as far as I am concerned all of our emotions, praspectivs, opinions and experiences are just as valid as my reality is to myself and therfore I can not condone anybody anyplace for anything they believe bc I can only hope to be able to relate enough to understand a hint of their respective lives. As is my struggle every day.
Have a nice day, I'm done here.

 

[roughdraft]

I love hearing other[s'] praspectivs, ideas and experiences bc [.....] I can only hope to be able to relate enough to understand a hint of their respective lives.

i feel that this is the best reason to debate, i hate when people want to dominate or prove themselves a "right" vs a "wrong" party. i see pushing the envelope in any debate as a way to, hopefully. procure a more deep understanding of others. and the more different the two perspectives, the more to be gained cheers man

 

[Deleted member 20683]

Wow did this thread blow up! I was shy to check back in...I want to point out that there are kind of two wildly different subjects in discussion here, 1. The Bible 2. Religion per se. or to bring them together, the Bible as an interpreted text, of which there are many interpretations. I didn’t grow up with religion at all, and I profess respect to those who did along with whatever negative or positive feelings and ideas they have about whatever affects it had on them. But I started learning the Bible (particularly the Hebrew Bible as I am of Jewish background) while over 25 and working on a degree in philosophy and I have a lot to say about it as a work of literature.

Too much really to fit in one readable post but here’s a start. The Bible as we know it is a mosaic of texts that derive from the oral traditions of one or more tribal societies, that were written down and woven together over about a millennium- so to speak of it as a unified text at all is already to adopt a certain theological discourse about the generation within which its final redaction took place. I find value in e.g. Daniel Quinn’s interpretation of genesis 1-4 regarding the conflict of nomadic gatherer-hunters and early Neolithic agrarians, but then again the era of biblical patriarchs are described as pastoralist (herding) nomads. Some historians like Norman gottwald hypothesize that the Israelites were a tribal confederacy of people who escaped forced labor in the city states of Canaan and the empires of Egypt and Mesopotamia, in short ‘maroons’. While eco-radicals like Derrick Jensen may point to the passages of Torah that proscribe destruction of the canaanites, most historians now see that the Israelites in fact *were* canaanites (or closely connected to them) and understand such passages to have been written centuries later than the era they purport to describe, revolving around that times social political and religious conflicts. History or historianship as we now conceive it did not exist in 1000 bce... Reading the Bible as though it did provides fuel for the ingrained anti-semitism of western civilization, whether in its avowedly fascist or most ‘radical’ variants.

 

[Deleted member 20683]

Oh and as for religion per se...I was brought up with a very standard western secular scientific perspective that it’s exactly as the title says, a ‘fairy tale’, a factually incorrect narrative. But I see it now more in terms of a way to live. If you have a belief that there’s a more real level of reality than what’s material (as the material needs to come from somewhere, the meta-physical) and you have a point of view that this force behind existence is benevolent then that’s maybe a better thing to believe than in mere metaphysical nihilism, as much as more than to believe there’s a personal deity who cares what you eat, wear etc...it doesn’t rule out, either, the value of ancient texts written by people who considered themselves related to such a power. Yes the Bible is often horrifically patriarchal (also, where are the women/non-binaries in this thread?) but consider the prophets who were basically anti authoritarian performance artists

 

[Dameon]

Yes the Bible is often horrifically patriarchal (also, where are the women/non-binaries in this thread?) but consider the prophets who were basically anti authoritarian performance artists

How can you be "anti authoritarian" while serving the supreme authority of a god? We're talking about the same god who told dude to sacrifice his son and expected that he'd do it, that commands complete and total obedience. The same god that turned Lot's wife into a fucking pillar of salt for disobeying him and looking back while he destroyed multiple cities for, you know, disobeying him. And they weren't "performance artists", they were mentally disturbed religious zealots. People who believed a giant magic sky man was telling them the future. Before psychology, schizophrenics were prophets. Why do you think the entire book of Revelations sounds like the ramblings of a crazy dude on the bus?

The bible is beyond horrifically patriarchal. It's twisted and messed up. It tells people to kill for a whole range of minor offenses, encourages genocide, and portrays a god who will strike down basically anybody for any transgression any time, or entire cities of people, or will command his people to kill an entire city of people; men, women, and children. Because being all powerful, he needs to have some people just brutally slaughter children for him.

 

[Deleted member 24782]

Most inspirational song of my youth back when I was a born-again Christian:

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Our God is an awesome God he reigns
From heaven above with wisdom, power and love
Our God is an awesome God

Yes, this is the ACTUAL song, and this how many times you have to sing the chorus. At least 16 times.

 

[RoadFlower33]

@Brodiesel710 what's your point?

 

[Deleted member 24782]

@Brodiesel710 what's your point?

Point was, I was recounting how absurd it was to have to sing this shit during the "praise and worship" services I had to attend as a teenager. The "inspirational" part was sarcasm.

 

[roughdraft]

Most inspirational song of my youth back when I was a born-again Christian:

Our God na na na na short edit

Yes, this is the ACTUAL song, and this how many times you have to sing the chorus. At least 16 times.

not kidding, i think i heard that song on the radio going through Roseburg one time. it was inspiring after the first couple repeats, then i went thru about every uncomfortable emotion realizing how bad of a mantra it is