some times motion is the only thing that keeps me alive

[xmaggotx]

freepizzaforlife, that's a pretty sorry argument. it's like saying that you can't be an anarchist if your young because your just playing into the idea of "youthful rebellion". besides, alcohol being illegal when you're underage don't mean a damn thing. the only reason its illegal that i can see is so they can collect fines from those who sell to or buy for minors in addition to the minors' parents. that and because if it wasn't illegal for youngsters to drink, many people would be outraged. besides that, obeying vs disobeying the law is not some black and white dichotomy. i don't rape, but this does not mean that i'm simply "obeying the law" it has to do with living according to my own morals, and my own logic. society as a whole-and yes that includes government and particularly big business-DOES want minors to consume alcohol. i'm sure that underage folks constitute a huge percentage of their sales. same goes for drugs. so as far as i'm concerned, if you do drink and do drugs, period, that fits in to doing what "they" want you to do. im not saying its bad or that that's everyone's intention, but i'd say its fairly accurate nonetheless.

 

[Grasshopper]

i'm sure that underage folks constitute a huge percentage of their sales. same goes for drugs. so as far as i'm concerned, if you do drink and do drugs, period, that fits in to doing what "they" want you to do.

Agreed!

 

[freepizzaforlife]

its all personal choice, I drink, I smoke weed, I smoke cigarattes, I occasionally drop acid. I and many others wouldnt neccissarly consider marijuana a drug would they? all though the drug in marijuana is THC. which you probably know. I used to be vegan, I since stooped to vegitarianisim. you arent FREEGAN if you are eating meat or dairy, you are a WEEGAN, no matter how much you want to say you are vegan you arent. have you eaten a snickers bar? have you drank an energy drink? then you broke vegan. have you used bathroom products that were tested on/derived from animal products? then you arent vegan. do you wear a leather vest or leather shoes? then you arent vegan.

as far as the straightedge thing goes, a lot of you kids take being straightedge way out of hand. and this is what pisses me off. I dont go to shows to get drunk. I actually started going to shows when I was younger so I can stay away from alchohol/drugs. I dont think you are getting the big picture here. Ian mackaye isint even straightedge anymore because kids took it from what it was ment to be, and made it into something else. straightedge is suppose to be a positive lifestyle, but a lot of these kids (not neccisarly you kids) are very militiant about this. how ever there are pleanty of people involved with the punk/hardcore culture that dont drink, dont smoke, dont do drugs, and dont claim to be straightedge. its just a label for a clean lifestyle, and nothing more.

do you kids have premiscious sex? because if I can remember right, this was a big part of being straightedge.

 

[MrD]

its all personal choice, I drink, I smoke weed, I smoke cigarattes, I occasionally drop acid. I and many others wouldnt neccissarly consider marijuana a drug would they? all though the drug in marijuana is THC. which you probably know. I used to be vegan, I since stooped to vegitarianisim. you arent FREEGAN if you are eating meat or dairy, you are a WEEGAN, no matter how much you want to say you are vegan you arent. have you eaten a snickers bar? have you drank an energy drink? then you broke vegan. have you used bathroom products that were tested on/derived from animal products? then you arent vegan. do you wear a leather vest or leather shoes? then you arent vegan.

as far as the straightedge thing goes, a lot of you kids take being straightedge way out of hand. and this is what pisses me off. I dont go to shows to get drunk. I actually started going to shows when I was younger so I can stay away from alchohol/drugs. I dont think you are getting the big picture here. Ian mackaye isint even straightedge anymore because kids took it from what it was ment to be, and made it into something else. straightedge is suppose to be a positive lifestyle, but a lot of these kids (not neccisarly you kids) are very militiant about this. how ever there are pleanty of people involved with the punk/hardcore culture that dont drink, dont smoke, dont do drugs, and dont claim to be straightedge. its just a label for a clean lifestyle, and nothing more.

do you kids have premiscious sex? because if I can remember right, this was a big part of being straightedge.

LIKE I SAID you are right about the vegan shit, i eat meat/dairy, but ONLY if its waste!
That means im not vegan, im not vegetarian.
I would never pay for that shit, that's the problem.
What the fuck do you take us for anyways?
Do you NOT think we know what we are talking about?
It didnt need to be said that if you eat dairy, or use animal products, then your not vegan...
Think about it, I dont know what your trying to prove....

As far as the straight edge thing goes, it is ONLY a personal choice, those who have made the choice, did for a reason that is their own.
It is stupid to judge an entire idea just based on a part that takes it too far.
I think militant straight edge is fucking stupid and take no part in it, yet i choose to still not do drugs, etc, for my own reasons.
but yeah, no permiscious sex

freepizzaforlife, your preaching to the quire here, your not saying anything we (assuming WE) dont already know........
:sucks:

 

[xmaggotx]

first off, if you want to be completely literal about it just for the sake of argument, then no one is vegan. film isnt vegan, lots of vinyl isnt vegan, fertilizer for growing vegetables isnt vegan, etc. veganism doesn't have to be completely black and white. for instance while i was vegan, during my last year or so i used second hand leather, because its going to be wasted otherwise, i wasnt supporting the industry and its far less ecologically destructive than buying a new vegan pleather imitation. that being said, if you eat meat or animal products at all, you are no longer vegan. and everyone knows freegan means you only eat waste products. however amongst vegan/punk kids its largely used as a term describing those who wont buy non-vegan shit but will eat dumpstered animal products. its fucking semantics.

and as for straightedge, i haven't ran across a "militant straightedge" earth crisis kid in quite a while. that has died out a lot since the 90's. and besides that, i have NEVER met a traveller kid who considered themselves "militant straightedge". i'm not sure why you brought up marijuana being considered a "drug" or not. whatever word you want to use to describe it, the only thing i'm getting at is that by using it, or any other mind altering substance, you aren't "rebelling" against some sort of "mr. rodgers" mentality. you are doing the same thing people do when they come home from work and watch TV. you're numbing yourself and your mind, instead of doing something proactive. i'm not saying that people are consciously looking for escape through drugs, at least not most people. what im saying is that "they" want people watching TV, and doing drugs and alcohol. not just because they profit off of it but because without those things hindering people's progress, there'd be a hell of a lot more thinking and a hell of a lot more rebellion going on. and just because some shit heads want to beat people up in the name of straightedge, or just because some shit heads want to turn hardcore into a group of sports fans, or just because people want to turn punk into a bunch of oi kids who shop at hot topic, doesn't mean shit. real straightedge, just like real punk rock, always has and always will be nothing more than a decision not to partake in drugs, alcohol, smoking, or promiscuous sex. (yes you're correct that is part of straightedge)

 

[Apples]

Welcome Mr. D i'm Apples. Hope to see you on the road.

Thought i'd throw in my 2 cents, just cause i can.

freepizzaforlife you crack me up. I'm curious as to where you got the whole vegan deal. From reading his intro he never called himself a vegan. Vegan nowadays is two different things. A dietary choice (the food aspect) and a lifestyle choice (food + cosmetics + toiletries + etc.). Very few people are able to live a completely vegan lifestyle no matter how much they believe they might be doing so. As for the straight-edge bit. A lot of todays straight-edge kids (at least the MD/DC area) are a little over the top and it bothers me. How they look down on me for doing drugs and drinking and even smoking a simple jack. God damn I wanna punch a lot of these kids. Also, as for the promiscuous sex, all the straight-edge kids im friends and even know dont do promiscuous sex.

 

[Sneaky Hobo]

its all personal choice, I drink, I smoke weed, I smoke cigarattes, I occasionally drop acid. I and many others wouldnt neccissarly consider marijuana a drug would they? all though the drug in marijuana is THC. which you probably know. I used to be vegan, I since stooped to vegitarianisim. you arent FREEGAN if you are eating meat or dairy, you are a WEEGAN, no matter how much you want to say you are vegan you arent. have you eaten a snickers bar? have you drank an energy drink? then you broke vegan. have you used bathroom products that were tested on/derived from animal products? then you arent vegan. do you wear a leather vest or leather shoes? then you arent vegan.

Weegan? Hell I've never heard of that. But you're arguing semantics. He got his point across, right? And in fact, Freegan doesn't have to pertain to just eating homegrown/non-purchased fruits and veggies. A lot of Freegans feel that if they don't eat thrown-out meals, despite what's in them, that it'll just be a waste anyway.

What I'm getting at is that Mr. D's point was made clear, despite what he could have called it.

-------

ANYWAY, Welcome aboard, Mr. D.
Damn, how many 17 year-olds are there here? I thought it was just me, haha.

 

[christianarchy]

first off, if you want to be completely literal about it just for the sake of argument, then no one is vegan. film isnt vegan, lots of vinyl isnt vegan, fertilizer for growing vegetables isnt vegan, etc. veganism doesn't have to be completely black and white. for instance while i was vegan, during my last year or so i used second hand leather, because its going to be wasted otherwise, i wasnt supporting the industry and its far less ecologically destructive than buying a new vegan pleather imitation. that being said, if you eat meat or animal products at all, you are no longer vegan. and everyone knows freegan means you only eat waste products. however amongst vegan/punk kids its largely used as a term describing those who wont buy non-vegan shit but will eat dumpstered animal products. its fucking semantics.

and as for straightedge, i haven't ran across a "militant straightedge" earth crisis kid in quite a while. that has died out a lot since the 90's. and besides that, i have NEVER met a traveller kid who considered themselves "militant straightedge". i'm not sure why you brought up marijuana being considered a "drug" or not. whatever word you want to use to describe it, the only thing i'm getting at is that by using it, or any other mind altering substance, you aren't "rebelling" against some sort of "mr. rodgers" mentality. you are doing the same thing people do when they come home from work and watch TV. you're numbing yourself and your mind, instead of doing something proactive. i'm not saying that people are consciously looking for escape through drugs, at least not most people. what im saying is that "they" want people watching TV, and doing drugs and alcohol. not just because they profit off of it but because without those things hindering people's progress, there'd be a hell of a lot more thinking and a hell of a lot more rebellion going on. and just because some shit heads want to beat people up in the name of straightedge, or just because some shit heads want to turn hardcore into a group of sports fans, or just because people want to turn punk into a bunch of oi kids who shop at hot topic, doesn't mean shit. real straightedge, just like real punk rock, always has and always will be nothing more than a decision not to partake in drugs, alcohol, smoking, or promiscuous sex. (yes you're correct that is part of straightedge)

LIKE I SAID you are right about the vegan shit, i eat meat/dairy, but ONLY if its waste!
That means im not vegan, im not vegetarian.
I would never pay for that shit, that's the problem.
What the fuck do you take us for anyways?
Do you NOT think we know what we are talking about?
It didnt need to be said that if you eat dairy, or use animal products, then your not vegan...
Think about it, I dont know what your trying to prove....

As far as the straight edge thing goes, it is ONLY a personal choice, those who have made the choice, did for a reason that is their own.
It is stupid to judge an entire idea just based on a part that takes it too far.
I think militant straight edge is fucking stupid and take no part in it, yet i choose to still not do drugs, etc, for my own reasons.
but yeah, no permiscious sex


:sucks:

i agree with both you guys.
question though, i'm not completely freegan but i do what i can, and when i do buy i buy as ethical as possible. and i never buy anything with dairy. in my group of friends we use the term vegan just to describe that we'll never buy animal products. but a lot of us wear second hand/recovered leather, eat recovered bread with whey, etc.
what do you guys consider vegan? even if you never bought it and were reducing waste in the process, you'd say eating stuff with whey in it is "breaking vegan?"
just wondering.
also, maggot like your commentary about companies wanting minors to drink/smoke etc. makes immediate sales and increases the chances of having a lifelong customer when you get em nice and young!

 

[MrD]

i agree with both you guys.
question though, i'm not completely freegan but i do what i can, and when i do buy i buy as ethical as possible. and i never buy anything with dairy. in my group of friends we use the term vegan just to describe that we'll never buy animal products. but a lot of us wear second hand/recovered leather, eat recovered bread with whey, etc.
what do you guys consider vegan? even if you never bought it and were reducing waste in the process, you'd say eating stuff with whey in it is "breaking vegan?"
just wondering.
also, maggot like your commentary about companies wanting minors to drink/smoke etc. makes immediate sales and increases the chances of having a lifelong customer when you get em nice and young!

Thats what i am doing, i will never buy non-vegan, but if it is waste, then im all for it.
The term freegan covers it pretty well.
I consider wearing second hand leather, and being vegan, still ok
But as far as eating non-vegan food, even if waste, break's the basic rule of veganism,
at least in my opinion...

 

[finn]

Vegan is not partaking in animal products, though there are honey vegans who justify eating honey by noting that relationships that bees and humans have through agriculture can be viewed as a symbiosis. This is taken from the argument that a mother's breast milk is vegan for the child because it is given with consent of the host within a relationship, though the opinion is not universal, many accept that interpretation in an ethical view. This "looser" form of veganism concerned with ethics is usually associated with animal rights.

Freegan is not encouraging the production of animal products, typically through a monetary sense, but has no restriction upon the diet so long as that requirement is met. Freeganism is associated with dumpsterdiving, though one definition of freegan is one whose diet is solely met via dumpsterdiving, it's not a popular nor typically practical one. Freeganism is more associated with environmental conservation than animal rights.

Here's a link if you're really interested: http://freegan.info/?page_id=45

 

[xmaggotx]

its really interesting/funny/ridicuolus/telling of our "scene", that all the other introduction posts have a few responses, and because straightedge was mentioned in this one, its got over 30!

 

[MrD]

its really interesting/funny/ridicuolus/telling of our "scene", that all the other introduction posts have a few responses, and because straightedge was mentioned in this one, its got over 30!

Im just that interesting ;]

 

[berserker]

since when do straight edge kids not smoke cigs? y'know since theyre all tough and hardcore

 

[A better World]

im gonna have jump on the bandwagon what does your age have to do with your decision not to do drugs? Im 18 and ive done enough drugs to last a lifetime, today i choose not to do any drugs because ive realized whenever i touch anything i go right back to shooting dope and when i shoot dope i cant live i aint straight edge i smoke cigarettes and drink coffee like a motherfucker what im trying to get at is doing drugs are not doing drugs is a lifestyle choice and i dont judge anyone for the way they choose to live as for the roadkill thing im a vegetarian (not ready to commit to the full veganism thing yet) and i got a lot of respect for someone who can eat meat when its free and turn it down when its not i dont think i can do that myself not enough will power not to mention the thought of chewing a piece of meat after four years with out makes me sick okay ive been rambling moral of the story live the way you want to causeing the least harm to others peace

 

[steelcitybrew]

I consider wearing second hand leather, and being vegan, still ok

have you been smoking pcp??
I smoke ciggarettes and im str8 edge as fuck. And I drink. Riddle me that.

 

[MrD]

have you been smoking pcp??
I smoke ciggarettes and im str8 edge as fuck. And I drink. Riddle me that.

morally, i dont see anything wrong with it, your not doing the animal any wrong if it is seconed hand

 

[Radar Lockey]

I was under the impression that "freegan" meant -if its free you'll eat it- ie: Leftovers given to you from food joints, ground scores, food being bought for you by some nice person, etc.....

I guess I've got that all twisted.

Hmmm..... I'm not really vegan at all, or vegetarian. I will eat it, if its edible. Shit, I'm even alright with ash in my coffee. Lol.

I read through this whole thread and it was amazing with all the differing perceptions and such.

I'm 24, and I've done acid once, shrooms once and maybe nowadays I smoke pot every 4 or 5 months. I have zero desire for any substance that might alter my perception of what makes me happy. Which is simply to travel. That's what we're all doing right?? We're all travelers going through life our own ways.

So, why the fuck are we arguing about this and that?? Is it even worth it?

I'm not the socially defined "straight-edge kid" but, I choose to not do any drugs.... with consideration of my coffee and cigarettes. Heaven forbid. I also drink sporadically, and even less when I'm on the road traveling. I just don't enjoy being shwilly around areas where I don't know people.

I love my tobacco and my spacebags.

Don't judge me and I won't judge you.

Love you all!

 

[christianarchy]

We're all travelers going through life our own ways.
QUOTE]

Agreed here. I don't think there was too much hostility here, but it is really interesting to see the diversity between people. Diversity is healthy too!

ps mr d, sorry we created your intro into a giant debate.

dunno if ive even said welcome yet. so welcome.

 

[steelcitybrew]

morally, i dont see anything wrong with it, your not doing the animal any wrong if it is seconed hand

Doesnt that support all the things your trying hard not to?

like im not vegan or freegan or strait edge or anything, but I just dont understand. Why even define yourself with a confining word like that? Life's too complicated and short.
I mean I guess its human nature, but just confuses the shit outta me.