San Fran bans sitting, lieing, sleeping on side walks (1 Viewer)

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FawnDroke

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Dec 18, 2009
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A lot of places have this law in effect actually.
I've been fucked with in both Seattle and Portland by cops who say they'll ticket us if we sit on the side walks. You can busk and spange - you just can't be sitting.
Fucking stupid.
 

colorado

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Nov 14, 2009
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f//k this it isnt a sf laws it is HAIGHT ST law people still sit on market the way i see it is kill the oogles and let god sort em out if ya dont like frisco go to berkley for me haight is home so what the cops will jack ya up for somokin a cig in the park olny if yer fu.in up though come home if your a haight kid its still the same mabee if we policed are shit better this wouldent happen we lost half the kid citys allready so lets work on this one ,if yer from round these parts you know that one cop comes in on his day off to play a kids guitar and plays grateful dead better then the rest they know what we do its all RESPECT......I LOVE HAIGHT CRIMES......
 

GutterGrayse

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I usually just get away with the loophole of sitting on a structure that is not attached to the sidewalk. Like my backpack, or guitar case. That really messes with them, "Oh, but only my feet are touching the sidewalk, occifer." They'll grumble a lot, but if you're polite they'll usually stop harassing you.
Now, in San Fran, I don't really blame 'em. There's a lot of obnoctious people causing all sorts of disturbance while they're sittin' on the sidewalk. If I was a business owner, I'd realize they're driving most of my business away by being either insane or very, very rude. San Fran is a melting pot, of course, but you've got to look at it from the small downtown business owner perspective. Plus, if you're sitting there playing music alone (as in, without a fleet of street kids not playing instruments or busking in some way, selling their art in some form), then they'll usually be pretty cool about you.
 
Joined
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San fran was kinda lame when i was there couldn't make any money by spang undies running all over the place. I hear the drunk stump is gone? I gotta lot of laughs with spare change and save the park squirrels from a hungry hillbilly with a stick but barley enough to get drunk the booze all day team did well there. I also learned about chicken Tuesday from forest. anyone know brandon a gdf kid ussaly in bueno vista.
 

shwillyhaaa

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im with grayse... the people who really deserve to be cut a break are the people who are making something of themselves while being there. playing good music or selling art you put time into i think is a reasonable way to spend your time as a "homeless" person. but screaming about anarchy at passerby and breaking shit...being drunk and disorderly... pissing yourself and hitting your dog... fuck yea id make you walk too. people arent evil, they arent out to get us... if anything the musicians and traveling folk that actually have talent and reason make a town look cooler. everyone has to have some breathing room, small businesses need to make money too...

so sorry to the kids who cant drink their 40s and yell at everyone on the streets of s.f.
if you dont like it, dont go there... leave... isnt that what we do anyways?
 

Dameon

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Sorry, but this idea that the streets of SF are just lined with people sitting on the sidewalk and screaming at people is complete and utter bullshit. And this idea that businesses lose business because of people sitting on the sidewalks asking for change is baseless. If anything, businesses on the Haight are MAKING money because of people sitting on the sidewalks asking for change. That street is famous because of people like us, and people go there to see people like us. The businesses will call the police instantly if they see any behavior they don't like, because they're almost all run by assholes who could give a fuck about the history of the place, and what REALLY attracts tourists to their businesses. Hint: It's not their overpriced shit.

It's not as if there's even many places on the Haight you could sit down legally even before this stupid law passed, since businesses own the sidewalk in front of them and most of them don't allow you to hang out there.

As a busker, I hate elitist buskers who pretend that they are awesome while people out there spanging are pieces of shit. You aren't better than anybody else just because you have an instrument. As for "if you don't like it, don't go there", as long as we stand (literally) for this shit, the more cities it will pass in, and eventually there won't be anywhere you can go without being harassed simply for resting your weary bones.
 

shwillyhaaa

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Sorry, but this idea that the streets of SF are just lined with people sitting on the sidewalk and screaming at people is complete and utter bullshit. And this idea that businesses lose business because of people sitting on the sidewalks asking for change is baseless. If anything, businesses on the Haight are MAKING money because of people sitting on the sidewalks asking for change. That street is famous because of people like us, and people go there to see people like us. The businesses will call the police instantly if they see any behavior they don't like, because they're almost all run by assholes who could give a fuck about the history of the place, and what REALLY attracts tourists to their businesses. Hint: It's not their overpriced shit.

It's not as if there's even many places on the Haight you could sit down legally even before this stupid law passed, since businesses own the sidewalk in front of them and most of them don't allow you to hang out there.

As a busker, I hate elitist buskers who pretend that they are awesome while people out there spanging are pieces of shit. You aren't better than anybody else just because you have an instrument. As for "if you don't like it, don't go there", as long as we stand (literally) for this shit, the more cities it will pass in, and eventually there won't be anywhere you can go without being harassed simply for resting your weary bones.
then do something about it instead of just talking about it... i see an aweful lotta bark and no bite in this thread
 

venusinpisces

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the people who really deserve to be cut a break are the people who are making something of themselves while being there. playing good music or selling art you put time into i think is a reasonable way to spend your time as a "homeless" person. but screaming about anarchy at passerby and breaking shit...being drunk and disorderly... pissing yourself and hitting your dog... fuck yea id make you walk too.
The problem here is that there are already laws in place to deal with these situations. And the SF mayor, Gavin Newsom, really is an evil bastard who wants to exterminate homeless people. Formerly, there was a welfare program in SF where, contrary to popular opinion, you actually did have to work to get your check. He replaced the program with Care Not Cash, a program where homeless people have to clean out the tanks under buses, full of the aforementioned piss as well as who knows what other bodily excretion, at 7AM for the privilege of sleeping in a nasty, overcrowded city shelter that kicks you out every morning at 4 AM. The shelter has an 9PM curfew and you don't even get to choose what you eat.

The "residents" spend 85% of their income on paying "rent" to the shelter. The SF mayor has basically completely robbed them of any ability to have a decent standard of living while also taking away their autonomy and ability to make independent decisions about their own income. This is especially disturbing because the shelters are overwhelmingly black while most of the people who voted for the measure are white. What Newsom did was really not too different than reinstituting slavery, short of the part about being allowed to beat people. How can you possibly say this is not evil?

The problem with these bullshit "quality of life laws" is that they just funnel more people into jail for victimless crimes. And there is a very slippery slope between targeting people who are completely insane pissing-themselves home bums, and regular "respectable" squatters who "contribute" to society. In NYC, an entire network of squats has been destroyed because of similar laws. And the residents were very productive, hard-working people who had done construction on the buildings, tended organic gardens, were active in community organizing, etc. Mayor Giuliani's anti-homeless crackdown was initially justified by violent crimes and the idea that the homeless were an eyesore that chased away shoppers. Pretty soon you could not have sidewalk sales, sleep in your own car, and the hot dog vendors were shut down. So before placing supposedly productive squatters in a separate category, it may be worth taking history into consideration.

Here is a site made by several neighborhood groups organizing to fight the sit lie law in SF. Hopefully somebody reading will be rich enough to send them a donation. Cuz there ain't no nation like a donation! Sidewalks are for People
 

ericafuckyea

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great, what a good idea! now all the kids who were previously silently flying their signs on powell or haight not really bothering anyone are gonna be walking around aggressively crack spanging. or snatching purses at the wharf, or selling can openers and ipod chargers on hyde and turk. or breaking into cars. or stealing razorheads from walgreens and selling them on fifth and market. or selling their foodstamps to mamasans. or stealing bikes. or selling meth. what a fucking improvement.
its stupid for the city because they dont realise that the people sitting or lying around represent by far the most harmless faction of 'street people' in sf. its like that broken window theory with graffiti, that the appearance of crime going unpunished (ie - unbuffed graff, visible homeless people) in a certain area leads to more real crime. so if you clean up the tags and sweep the homeless into shelters and shit the bigger problems magically dissapear, obviously flawed logic... it's surface level bullshit and politicians, especially newsom, are lazy shits who just want to look like they've got the publics' best interest at heart...
you learn to adapt to this shit. from my experience it's illegal to loiter and panhandle everywhere. you get tickets for sleeping outside, spanging, and obstructing the sidewalk all the time in nyc and new orleans and every other major city. this is the type of shit you get fined and arrested for even if it's not actually a written law or ordinance...
 
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i travel alone and rarely (if ever) do i have run ins with the cops. occasionally down south i will get hassled for hitchhiking but a lot of the time the cops just give me a ride anyway. its all about how you carry yourself. san fran. has a large homeless population. the city is probably tired of dealing with a majority of them. this just makes its easier for them to sweep us up, but realistically the cops aren't going to arrest every single homeless person seen sitting down. again how do you carry yourself? i don't sit on the sidewalk with a 40 in my hand begging for spare change. if i needed money i'll work for it. i don't beg for anything. if you don't act like an asshole the cops will leave you alone. believe it or not people sitting on the side walk pissing themselves and asking for money is annoying!
i've traveled for well over a decade now and the only times i went to jail are when i probably deserved it. when i wasn't being a drunk shithead the cops leave me a lone. no cop really wants to deal with a stinky homeless person. i was on the road for 4 or 5 months last year and i even had one bull drive me to the jungle. i had one state trooper drive me and hour down I-20. couple other run ins but nothing but warrant checks and free to go.
cops can't realistically lock up all homeless people. usually there locking up the ones being obvious nuisances.
 

venusinpisces

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Actually, there are many places where cops can and will arrest you just for looking a certain way or just about anything else. This is why New Orleans laws like "molesting a hamburger" exist: to get rid of undesirable elements. Yes, you can certainly make this easier for them by acting like an idiot and unfortunately many people do. Police crackdowns tend to come more often when there is any hint of organization, which is probably why solo travelers get harassed less frequently.

But the problem with being apathetic about unnecessary laws is that it prevents the establishment of long-term squats that can exist in much better conditions than ones where squatting is illegal. Where homelessness is illegal, there is no incentive to maintain your camp or building because it will only be evicted anyways. That's why you find so many disgusting squats and camps that are basically uninhabitable. Whereas, in Europe, squats are much cleaner and full of regular people who are working, going to school, etc. When I stayed in any of the long term Lower East Side squats like Dos Blockos, C-Squat or ABC No Rio, not once did I see piles of garbage, uncapped needles or people pissing in the corner. Because these were people's homes and they wanted to maintain them. Squats can serve as a community organizing/arts space and this is a better goal to aim for than temporary buildings that attract police, even though these will be necessary at times as well. The history behind squatters movements is that the people involved in them believed that everyone had a right to housing. Living conditions were only unsanitary because they were illegal--the practices of urban homesteading mean that you can maintain a building without it turning into a dump. Quality of life laws prevent this idea from becoming a reality because they criminalize everything except for wage slavery.
 

CXR1037

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The Bay's been making it easy to be a homebum. So many "altruists" out there, always giving. It's like the birds in the park, don't feed them and they'll go away.
SF is tired of having homeless people everywhere. Isn't it their right to do so? It should be put to a vote amongst people who actually contribute to society.

All the homebums will probably come over here to Oakland and Berkeley, now. :(
 

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