Jay/Rhubarb Dwyer/Snorting Nitrons

[Dameon]

*I think now is a good time for me to pull the plug here on STP, because I'm at a point where I can no longer contribute anything without it going wrong*

That's an unfortunate decision...I'm not trying to attack you; in our culture victim blaming is so built in that it's easy to do without realizing it. Rather than feeling attacked, you could take it as a learning moment. You could also avoid these kinds of controversial threads where emotions run high and it can be a little like walking through a minefield.

I'm not blaming the victims.
I'm just stating that the victims should have gotten away from this individual asap.

That is literally blaming the victims. Instead of focusing on the fact that this individual shouldn't have been doing these things, you're focusing on the fact that the victims didn't get away from him quickly enough. How quickly they should have gotten away from him is irrelevant to his shitty behavior. If somebody's in an abusive situation and, rather than criticizing the abuser, you criticize the abused person, you're implying that the blame rests with the one being abused, or at least that they share some amount of blame.

 

[roughdraft]

ok one more time and i'm leaving this alone: this isn't too tough a psycho-analytic nut to crack folks... the testimonies indicate that the guy has got rapist tendencies, i don't see room for debate.. i imagine myself in the position of croc or snailor as mentioned and it's pretty damn clear. what a fucktard to do the things illustrated itt, does anyone wanna say it doesnt qualify as "shady/untrustworthy"?

if you wanna split hairs on what it means to be "predatory" then have a ball, all i know is that if i ask someone not to do something, especially something intimate, and they do it anyway that's violating my person. and since that's just one component of the story here, I don't see how this is a case to wax philosophical on.

and for sure people should air each other's behavior out on this forum, when it comes to this. You got one life to live (for all intents and purposes) nobody needs to get caught up with people who do shit like this

 

[croc]

@OTTERWOLF someone doesn't have to hold u down to constitute sexual abuse or misconduct. I'm honestly so disgusted with how ur trynna act like it's so easy to see what's happening in the moment when ur used to being taken advantage of and have trusted this person.

I'm sorry for what happened to u as a kid. I'm happy for u that u had the strength to stay away from them after. But I think these situations are really different bc those "kids" weren't someone 20 years older than u, when ur frontal lobe isn't fully developed (decision making skills haven't fully developed) and they've lived a life twice as long as urs. They tell u that they love u. They show u that they care about u. They earn ur trust. Then disregard boundaries. A lot of us freeze up in times of abuse. Sometimes neither fight nor flight come in to play.

I've been raped before and before that happened I'd been sexually assaulted. After being assaulted I swore to myself I'd never let anyone do anything to me that I didn't want. And then I was full on raped (by someone I'd befriended and who'd earned my trust) and I froze for a couple minutes instead of running immediately.

U don't know what you'd do in a situation until ur in it. I hope u never experience this and I hope that if u do, u look back on this thread and realize firsthand what we're talking about.

I had to give a well spoken reply first but out of respect for myself and snail I must include: fuck u and ur victim blaming bullshit.

 

[croc]

@Yody I entirely respect and agree with what u shared about the experiences of women (I was raised as a girl). But let's expand that bc both me and the 19 year old he's been targeting are guys. And sexual abuse of men isn't talked about enough.

His preference is afab folks but not limited to cis women.

 

[WyldLyfe]

Whiles the guys behavior was definitely not great at all, going by what he is being accused of here. It could have been a lot worse, and Im not victim blaming when I say you ladies should really learn how to ditch people effectively, its for your own benefit, you tell them your going to do something, you go off and you don't come back, if his in your car, you say something to get him out of the car and take him somewhere away from it or something, like into a shop ex: "hey were gonna get food, come" then lose him in there go back to the car and leave, even if you have to dump someone on the side of the freeway in the middle of woop woop at midnight. I know Snailer is new to travel, hopefully you use this as a learning experience and don't let it stop you from travel and living free.

 

[Matt Derrick]

Whiles the guys behavior was definitely not great at all, going by what he is being accused of here. It could have been a lot worse, and Im not victim blaming when I say you ladies should really learn how to ditch people effectively, its for your own benefit, you tell them your going to do something, you go off and you don't come back, if his in your car, you say something to get him out of the car and take him somewhere away from it or something, like into a shop ex: "hey were gonna get food, come" then lose him in there go back to the car and leave, even if you have to dump someone on the side of the freeway in the middle of woop woop at midnight. I know Snailer is new to travel, hopefully you use this as a learning experience and don't let it stop you from travel and living free.

Okay, so while not directly involved in this situation, I feel like as part of the staff of StP I need to step in here and say a few things.

First off, we don't need any more posts about "you should have done this" or "you should have done that". I know you think you're helping, but you're not. You weren't present in the situation, and telling victims what they should or should not have done is victim blaming, plain and simple. Victim blaming also makes the perpertrator's actions acceptable by completely ignoring the fact that they should not have been done, no matter what the victims reactions were.

It's the classic, "she shouldn't have been wearing that dress in a dark alley" scenario. That statement ignores the fact that, in a ideal society, someone of any gender should be able to go wherever they want presenting however they want with the expectation of not being raped/beaten/killed.

"But Matt, we live in the real world, not some utopia!" While true, we need to stand up for the kind of world we want to live in, not the kind of world where people have to hide themselves in fear of retaliation. By not calling it out and laying blame to the victims (by telling them what they should have done) you're are conveying the message that the violence against those individuals was acceptable.

"But Matt, I honestly don't think those actions were cool, i just think they should--" Then shut the fuck up. Take a step back. Listen to their side of things without trying to pass judgment on it and just accept that is their truth. Remember, you weren't there, so shut the fuck up, listen, and support them however you can.

As all posts to this section of the forums is heavily moderated, any further victim blaming 'advice' is going to be rejected from this thread from here on. It's not productive and I'm tired of it.

 

[Deleted member 24782]

What is the end game here? As most STP members are acting autonomously are we all supposed to agree that Jay Rhubarb guy is in fact a sexual predator and treat him as such? Without his defense this forum is simply acting as the judge and jury in a matter that may have profound impact upon someones life. As with most call outs I've watched unfold (since 2003 or so) the accused simply gets hostile, write offs the community, and moves onto different social circles. Not much for a resolution or real social justice. In my opinion internet call out's do little for creating/maintaining supposed safe spaces and rather act as a direct agent in community ruin.

 

[croc]

Whiles the guys behavior was definitely not great at all, going by what he is being accused of here. It could have been a lot worse, and Im not victim blaming when I say you ladies should really learn how to ditch people effectively, its for your own benefit....

WE ARE NOT ALL LADIES, READ THE FUCKING PREVIOUS COMMENTS IF U WANNA ADD UR TWO CENTS.

Some education for those of u that think vagina = woman or don't put thought into how non women get taken advantage of: we are out here. We exist and we experience abuse too. Me and the 19 year old mentioned are both guys.

"It could have been worse?" are u kidding????????
What the fuck part of ur narrow brain thought that was a good idea to say or did u not even think about it?

Ur comment absolutely disgusts me.

I don't care how fucked this is to say- I hope some awful shit happens to u by someone u trusted and loved and that u freeze up and realize firsthand it's not always that easy. Especially when the person is manipulating ur emotions and u don't realize what's happening at first. That is ESPECIALLY WHY I CALL THIS PREDATORY. A teenager or early 20 something is way less likely to realize that they're being taken advantage of by someone 20+ years their elder who's told u they love u n care about u n wanna help u. This isn't some stranger attacking u. It's way different, way sneakier.

 

[Deleted member 125]

What is the end game here?

I dunno, maybe to give a heads up to people who might not have otherwise known of this persons behavior. Like ya know "stay away from this guy hes not exactly a cool fellow". I can't speak for anyone else but possibly preventing further assaults would I guess be a good end game. So I'll go with that.

Without his defense this forum is simply acting as the judge and jury in a matter that may have profound impact upon someones life.

As of me writing this, this user isn't banned and has just as much opportunity to defend himself as his victims had to out him, although i doubt hes gonna bother to do so. So would you prefer that when somebody does something fucked up in this community we just ignore it and dont address it because someone's life could be negatively impacted? Just kinda ignore the people he hurt and worry more about something potentially happening to Jay in the future as a result of his actions?

In my opinion internet call out's do little for creating/maintaining supposed safe spaces and rather act as a direct agent in community ruin.

Do i really have to get into why what happend to these 2 people isnt exactly positive when it comes to community building and how addressing that this shit is unacceptable is important?

 

[Dmac]

So he, a 45 yo guy, sets up a private discord off of stp’s and only invites teenagers, who have not hit the road yet, to join it for the professed purpose to mentor them and then travel with them? Yeah nothing creepy there.
@highwayman, you have kids don’t you? Would you still be okay with it if he was trying this with your kid when they hit their teen years?

 

[Deleted member 28239]

@Yody I entirely respect and agree with what u shared about the experiences of women (I was raised as a girl). But let's expand that bc both me and the 19 year old he's been targeting are guys. And sexual abuse of men isn't talked about enough.

His preference is afab folks but not limited to cis women.

I'm sorry for assuming, you're absolutely correct. What I said applies to anyone in the more "vulnerable" position. I was mainly trying to point out why its not as simple as walking away from the situation. Thank you for clarifying so people can be aware. And thank you for speaking up, some of the reactions and comments you're getting are probably painful but you're doing the right thing and possibly saving someone in the future.

 

[Coywolf]

Without his defense this forum is simply acting as the judge and jury in a matter that may have profound impact upon someones life.

As of me writing this, this user isn't banned and has just as much opportunity to defend himself as his victims had to out him, although i doubt hes gonna bother to do so.

For anyone saying that we need to hear both sides of the story, that opportunity has been presented, multiple times, by multiple people.

So that should not cast any doubt on the obvious disrespectful, unacceptable behavior that was exhibited by a seasoned traveler that not only KNOWS these actions are not ok, but preaches that they are not OK to younger travelers, and who claims to be a person who speaks up when behavior like this is committed.

 

[croc]

So he, a 45 yo guy, sets up a private discord off of stp’s and only invites teenagers, who have not hit the road yet, to join it for the professed purpose to mentor them and then travel with them? Yeah nothing creepy there.
@highwayman, you have kids don’t you? Would you still be okay with it if he was trying this with your kid when they hit their teen years?

I was wondering the same bc I thoughthighwayman had mentioned having kids before.

To clarify about the discord, a lot of the ppl in there are teens or early 20s but not exclusively.

 

[Dmac]

Thanks for the clarification @croc , but it’s still creepy behavior

 

[blank]

So he, a 45 yo guy, sets up a private discord off of stp’s and only invites teenagers, who have not hit the road yet, to join it for the professed purpose to mentor them and then travel with them? Yeah nothing creepy there.

I don't think it was quite like that. Seems to have been more he invited people just on the basis of them not being annoying while the STP Discord was overrun by teenagers. We mostly made (grey) poopuns.

 

[snailormoon]

I don't think it was quite like that. Seems to have been more he invited people just on the basis of them not being annoying while the STP Discord was overrun by teenagers. We mostly made (grey) poopuns.

It's totally correct that not all of the people on Jay's server are teenagers, and I really do think he created the server with the express purpose of having an atmosphere free of drama...but he did single out a couple of people in the chat as romantic/sexual conquests.

And yes, I was flirty with him and agreed to travel with him willingly, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he
a) pulled all of that creepy and gross shit while I traveled with him and
b) seemed to have harnessed his authority in the server to appear as a wise travel mentor that emotionally vulnerable young people could confide in. I have had conversations with him, where he voiced that he was trying to convince the aforementioned 19 year old to just drop everything and travel to come see Jay because he would take care of him...this person was having a very hard time emotionally and had never left home. Can you imagine how fucking confusing things would be for a person who was struggling emotionally to leave everything familiar to them to come see someone who would most like take advantage of them sexually? That's hella fucked up...

 

[Matt Derrick]

just to follow up and bring this all to a close, i'm letting folks know that @Rhubarb Dwyer's account has been banned. They haven't logged in since the day before this thread was started, and it's been a month and a half now, so he's had a chance to say his piece and has chosen not to do so, so I think that concludes this conversation.

thread closed.