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Illegal immigration

tallhorseman

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Another case of regular people getting blamed for something that corporate greed has brought about.

Every chicken plant in Northwest Arkansas uses illegal labor. Corporations found the legal loopholes that make it possible for them to pay illegals. Illiterate Pablo didn't go to a corporate attorney and figure that shit out. CEO's did. And they didn't do it because they weren't making any money, but because they wanted to make MORE! More, more, more.

And the more they get away with, the farther they'll go. Fences aren't the answer. Punishing Mexicans isn't the answer. Punishing corporations is the answer. Which ain't going to happen in a greed driven nation.

E.
 

CXR1037

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haha, veggieguy...

Let the mexicans take it all and call it MANIFEST DESTINY sounds fair to me u wanna roof in summer in pheonix for 5 a hour

That's a lot like the plan I have. Except in my plan, the United States annexes Mexico, forcibly (and ruthlessly) kills all major drug leaders (you connected to a drug cartel? Bullet in the head), forcibly overthrows their government, forcibly pushes Catholicism out of the country, forcibly removes external corporations from their country, and sets up a government run by the people there.

This is all my fantasy world.

Actually, in my fantasy world, Mexicans would do this on their own accord. Then, US citizens would be hopping the border and heading there!
 

Eager

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Well, in principle I don't believe in borders - effectively, I will rarely regard them, and I wouldn't impose them. That said, I believe communities can decide what they want or don't want, and that allows for racism or homophobia or whatever. (My guess is that racist communities would find that they don't do quite as well discriminating on any basis other than ability to provide for the greater good.)

Are you fucking kidding?


Oh, yeah, it worked out really nicely when communities could decide whether or not they wanted to recognize Black folks as human beings or property!

Are you totally oblivious to history or just an obliviously racist white dude? You think communities "won't do well" from exploiting and excluding minority groups? Nevermind, that the virtually free labor pool provided by slavery, made the rich, racist white land owners in the south the most prosperous they had or have ever been to date.

Do you really think the current economic system "suffers" from the free labor received from the racist prison industrial complex or in sweatshops globally?

Of course not; it thrives on that sort of exploitation.

Your apologism for majority imposed racism and homophobia because you allegedly believe in "community/individual liberty" shows how fucking clueless you are about the affects of such systematic oppressions on individuals.

Mikhail Bakunin said it best: "Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice; socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."

Anything less is just a bunch of self-indulgent oppressive nonsense.
 

Keith2

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I don't have strong feelings either way about illegal immigration however a nation does have a right to have a border if that is what it wants and people from outside America don't deserve to have the right to live in America just because they have a desire to. That being said I am apathetic about the issue. I am more concerned about legal immigration. I don't understand why the government is having tons of legal immigrants come here when we have widespread unemployment in America.
 

soapybum

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No borders no nations, this world is all of ours and we all belong to the earth. The idea of nations just feeds into the idea of owning land and the privatization of common goods.
 
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Eager

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I don't have strong feelings either way about illegal immigration however a nation does have a right to have a border if that is what it wants and people from outside America don't deserve to have the right to live in America just because they have a desire to. That being said I am apathetic about the issue. I am more concerned about legal immigration. I don't understand why the government is having tons of legal immigrants come here when we have widespread unemployment in America.

Well first off... if anyone "doesn't have a right to be in 'America'" its the white folks in this country, whose European ancestors illegally entered into indigenous territory and stole it from the indigenous peoples.

This being said, around 80% of the population of Mexico have indigenous ancestry; so to argue that they have "no right" to come here and that you supposedly have some innate right to live here just because your great great granddaddy raped and pillaged their settlements and broke numerous treaties so that you could be born here, amounts to a bunch of reactionary nationalist bullshit.

And you want to scapegoat immigrants for a lack of jobs? No, get a fucking analysis and read up on globalized capitalism.
 
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Kim Chee

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As I see it, borders are barriers to those who try to gain entry illegally. For me, they are only an inconvenience (o.r an obstacle which I'll breech whenever I feel necessary). For the people who gain entry legitimately, they are a place where you can make your attempt to convince another that you are worthy of passage.
 

DregeDE

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Two words (one name) Immortal Technique
 
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Keith2

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The notion of indigenous is a racist concept. The idea people are indigenous to anywhere is racist, it is based on the idea of blood and soil. The notion that "germans" are the indigenous people of germany led to the holocaust. Anyone born in America is native and people of all races born in America have as much right to call themselves native Americans as the people who are descended from first nations tribes.

As far as illegal immigrants from Mexico are concerned I dont have strong feelings about them either way.

I don't blame immigrants for lack of jobs, I blame the economy for lack of jobs. However having massive legal immigration while there is a lack of jobs does increase the rate of unemployment. Simple arithmetic demonstrates that. If there are 50 residents of an area and there are only 25 available jobs then that means half of those 50 residents would be unemployed. If you then brought more people into that area you would increase how many people in that area are unemployed.

Native Americans have a right to determine how their land is governed and who is allowed to immigrate to this land. Anyone born in America is a native American.

Saying that white Americans are guilty of what their ancestors did is holding children accountable for the crimes of their great great great grandfather. The idea that people should be judged by the crimes of their ancestors is the sort of thinking that led to the persecution of jews because people were blaming jews for the death of Jesus when it was over a thousand years since Jesus had died.

There is a theological debate about who or what was responsible for Jesus dying, those debates aside though the principle is the same. People believed the ancestors of jews killed Jesus and because of that belief they blamed the current jews. The principle at work here is people blaming people for crimes committed by their ethnic groups ancestors.

People are not responsible for what their ancestors did or what their ancestors are accused of doing. To hold people accountable for what their ancestors did is racist. White people should not be psychologically harassed for the behaviors that white people engaged in in the past. Furthermore no race should be subject to racial harassment.

Well first off... if anyone "doesn't have a right to be in 'America'" its the white folks in this country, whose European ancestors illegally entered into indigenous territory and stole it from the indigenous peoples.

This being said, around 80% of the population of Mexico have indigenous ancestry; so to argue that they have "no right" to come here and that you supposedly have some innate right to live here just because your great great granddaddy raped and pillaged their settlements and broke numerous treaties so that you could be born here, amounts to a bunch of reactionary nationalist bullshit.

And you want to scapegoat immigrants for a lack of jobs? No, get a fucking analysis and read up on globalized capitalism.
 

Kabukimono

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I say it's all a load of bullshit to cause hate, fear and give the world governments control.
No to borders is my opinion!
 
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Eager

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The notion of indigenous is a racist concept. The idea people are indigenous to anywhere is racist, it is based on the idea of blood and soil. The notion that "germans" are the indigenous people of germany led to the holocaust. Anyone born in America is native and people of all races born in America have as much right to call themselves native Americans as the people who are descended from first nations tribes.

As far as illegal immigrants from Mexico are concerned I dont have strong feelings about them either way.

I don't blame immigrants for lack of jobs, I blame the economy for lack of jobs. However having massive legal immigration while there is a lack of jobs does increase the rate of unemployment. Simple arithmetic demonstrates that. If there are 50 residents of an area and there are only 25 available jobs then that means half of those 50 residents would be unemployed. If you then brought more people into that area you would increase how many people in that area are unemployed.

Native Americans have a right to determine how their land is governed and who is allowed to immigrate to this land. Anyone born in America is a native American.

Saying that white Americans are guilty of what their ancestors did is holding children accountable for the crimes of their great great great grandfather. The idea that people should be judged by the crimes of their ancestors is the sort of thinking that led to the persecution of jews because people were blaming jews for the death of Jesus when it was over a thousand years since Jesus had died.

There is a theological debate about who or what was responsible for Jesus dying, those debates aside though the principle is the same. People believed the ancestors of jews killed Jesus and because of that belief they blamed the current jews. The principle at work here is people blaming people for crimes committed by their ethnic groups ancestors.

People are not responsible for what their ancestors did or what their ancestors are accused of doing. To hold people accountable for what their ancestors did is racist. White people should not be psychologically harassed for the behaviors that white people engaged in in the past. Furthermore no race should be subject to racial harassment.

So recognizing sovereignty of the colonized against the colonizer is somehow "racist" and "nationalist"; yet recognizing the sovereignty of colonized America is not. How convenient. :rolleyes:


You're right; people are not responsible for what their ancestors did; but they are responsible for their own complicity in the remnants of those things in the present. You are responsible for your support of racist immigration law. You are responsible for your complicity in the racist criminal justice system. You are responsible for continuing to ignore the Native treaties in this day and age. You are responsible for perpetuating the white supremacist position.

You want to talk about harassment? Try living on a fucking reservation or statistically being more likely to end up in prison than graduating high school. Try getting into the US because all the "quality jobs" in your country have been replaced by agribusiness and sweatshops run by American multinationals, only to be told there is a 8-year waiting list, and you'll still have to pass a citizenship test after that waiting period. Try sneaking into that country, under constant threat of deportation, only to be told by some flag-waving trainhopping scumfuck, that YOU'RE the reason he doesn't have that super desired under the table dishwashing job he so desperately wants. Because you know, apparently dropping out of society and hopping trains illegally within an imaginary line is a legitimate form of job reduction, but illegally hopping a train across that line and trying to feed your kid isn't.

Fuck off and die whitey. You wanna make Nazi comparisons? Look in the mirror.
 

ProletarianGuerilla

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Cracker ass crackers. I want my Walmart en espanol.

I want white people to be the new racial cultural minority!

I want a Rodriguez, Chang, Mohamed, Baatti, or Varanaj for president.

Imagine a world without white people. Global utopia!

White devils! Get rid of them all.
 

ProletarianGuerilla

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A lot of people wanting to get rid of borders and boundaries in this thread.

Well, what is that? That is getting rid of all territoriality.

Borders and boundaries in all reality is a defined set of territories.

Is it realistic to get rid of all territoriality in the world?

Is that even possible?
 

allenfromallenville

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this land was not founded on illegal immigration, it was founded by people migrating here legally through check points such as Ellis island, etc cetera. I hate illegal immigration.
 

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