how do you deal with past abuse you have committed? (1 Viewer)

wokofshame

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Not something I usually post on, but I just finished reading this https://carrotquinn.com/2018/01/17/...unting-in-the-long-distance-hiking-community/

(Long-ass page but worth reading. At the end are testimonials from the subject's former partners, and then some writing about the person's defenders/enablers. Edit: the subject was at one point a STP member)

A lot of the behavior mentioned isn't stuff remotely close to what I've done (I love cats, dislike guns, haven't hit someone since puberty etc), but I have emotionally and sexually abused partners in the past.
The two specific people I think of, I'm no longer in touch with. One broke ties with me and the other I broke ties with.
Wondering how people-specifically men, but I'm interested in hearing from women also- deal with realizing that they have been an abuser.
One thing that got to me from Carrot's article was that the subject posted a fake-ass apology, and Carrot's reckoning on it that it was not only self-righteous but failed to specifically mention harmful actions made. It made me think.
Thoughts?
 
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otch0z

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Hey

This is not a subject about which I open often, or easily, but the fact that you openly talk about having be an abuser and the fact that you're not a cis man (??? not 100% sure but if your picture is you then it would be surprising) makes stuff easier.

I was a sexual abuser to my ex. We were each other first partners and at the time, my idea of relationship and sexuality was very different from now. In fact, I had not questioned the socially constructed idea I had of it, which had led me to toxic behaviour. I was a girl and he was a boy, so I was just assuming that he always wanted sex.
Maybe it's just me making up excuses to cope with the idea of being an abuser, but I think that I lacked knowledge in the subject of consent, mostly. I was just trying to fit my imaginary norm that was socially constructed by porn and the heteronormative image of sex in our society.

I made a lot of progress now, as I became more and more interested in stuff like consent, feminism, polyamory etc... Ideas that question what society "teaches" us about romantic relationships. I slowly became aware that my idea of consent was twisted. I became aware that I had been abused multiple times, if not most of the times I had sex, and worst, that I had abused too.
It's funny you begin this thread now, because a few months ago I saw my ex and we talked about it. Our relationship, and the way we experienced sex, as it was our first times both, deeply shaped how we act in that matter. I see him approximately once a year but this time we had a deep, meaningful conversation about what happened, in which I aknowledged having abused him. He said he was relieved that I did agree on that matter, and that it was important to him that I said it.

To answer your question about how I cope with the idea that I have been an abuser, well it's super hard and I never told any of my friends about it. I do feel better since I had this conversation with him, and at the end it's the only conversation that matters, but I feel terrible about it, especially since I make consent a really important thing in my life now. The only thing that makes me feel better is that now that I am aware of my behaviour, I will be able to question it and change it if I need to.
 

FenrirFox

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Personally I don't require for my partner to seek consent if we are already in a relationship. Takes away from the point of a close, intimate, trusting, and romantic relationship.

If I don't want to be intimate at the moment then I will refuse.
 
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Not something I usually post on, but I just finished reading this https://carrotquinn.com/2018/01/17/...unting-in-the-long-distance-hiking-community/

(Long-ass page but worth reading. At the end are testimonials from the subject's former partners, and then some writing about the person's defenders/enablers. Edit: the subject was at one point a STP member)

A lot of the behavior mentioned isn't stuff remotely close to what I've done (I love cats, dislike guns, haven't hit someone since puberty etc), but I have emotionally and sexually abused partners in the past.
The two specific people I think of, I'm no longer in touch with. One broke ties with me and the other I broke ties with.
Wondering how people-specifically men, but I'm interested in hearing from women also- deal with realizing that they have been an abuser.
One thing that got to me from Carrot's article was that the subject posted a fake-ass apology, and Carrot's reckoning on it that it was not only self-righteous but failed to specifically mention harmful actions made. It made me think.
Thoughts?
If you beat them up you could give them money or say that you are sorry. You could say that you have a problem. As long as one doesn't suffer from antisocial personality disorder, he or she will feel at least some regret if enough damage to another's life was done unjustly. As for the article, I think it is kind of an alpha-male thing to want to show dominance and control. Beating up a woman because she did not do the dishes, is, I think, considered taking away someone's quality of life and freedom - similar to slavery. How do the southern slaveowners apologize to the black people they held as slaves? It depends on whether the abuser sees the abuse as necessary. A lot of cruel people have antisocial personality disorder too, where they cannot have sympathy for others. Some people have anger problems where the drop of a hat makes them want to murder someone. An abuser could tell the survivor that it is in the survivor's best interest to cut the abuser out of his or her life.

In regard to the article, if I was in a group that was run by someone that had it out for me, I would leave and find a new group.
 
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I think learning or having compassion for yourself and your victims helps tremendously. I was raped when I was around 25 by a "friend". He got me drunk and I should have known. I do take partial responsibility since in my travels I am the only one watching out for me and I should have saw it coming. But I don't harbor any hate for him. I dont think he even realized it. I have had other things happen but realized they were coming from a broken place. I only have bitterness towards one person and abuse but thats because there were dreams broken.

I know at times in the partnership I am in right now I can be verbally abusive. He chooses to stay and knows we are both being mildly abusive to each other. I dont feel alot of remorse over it. Relationships are complicated and with most actions unless you are chained/ slave to them you must look in your own mirror and take responsibility even the victims.
I think as a previous poster said in youth its harder with such a grossly maligned society you could easily grow up to be a teenager or adult that abuses. Rather than feeling sorry for yourself for choosing the dark side its best to forgive yourself, apologize to no end to the abused, seek them help (since they may choose unknowly abuse for themselves) and then know you won't be that person again. You will choose to control your emotions, urges and seek out the truth that resides within us all, whatever that may be for your journey.

I really hope for all the abusers and victims out there that you all reach clarity.
 

salxtina

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"… When an abused woman refuses to “look at her part” in the abuse, she has actually taken a powerful step out of self-blame and toward emotional recovery. She doesn’t have any responsibility for his actions. Anyone who tries to get her to share responsibility is adopting the abuser’s perspective."
 
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@salxtina Hi I see where you are coming from but I don't feel that way. I have little emotions connected to the rape, at the time I was sickened by it but then let it go.

I am an attractive woman who knows how male sexuality works. In an ideal world yes obviously he should have never tried to take advantage of me but we don't live in an ideal world. Cis men and women have different sexualities and when base males who just react from their sexual urges see an attractive woman they get horny and many want to hump. If I am around atypical males as a woman I definitely make sure I don't get wasted around them and put myself in a situation where I could be raped. It is the way some men operate that as a woman equal to them in their eyes if I am drunk or very drunk you take responsibility for yourself and make plans accordingly.

Obviously people who purposely get someone drunk to have sex with them or till they pass out then rape them should be prosecuted. But being aware of alcohol and males in the first place would avoid the situation. We definitely need more awareness.

The guy that raped me in his mind it was a sex act. I would never prosecute him because he really believed that and well he's an idiot. He really had no clue. Though I am sure you will see that as an excuse for my predator but he is an equal to me. Another sad misinformed human being with a poor upbringing. I feel compassion for him.
 

OBIWAN616

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Me and my ex Mouse, where in a pretty bad relationship, I mean we where great for a few years, then she started getting violent and thinking it was ok to beat the shit out of me, I ended up defending myself one day when I was asleep and she woke me up by jumping on me and punching(for what reason I can't remember)me in the jaw. but I punched her back without even knowing wtf was happening(I was woken from a dead sleep) I realized what I did and we don't even talk anymore, I had to get out of that relationship, I knew that day it wasn't gonna get better, the emotional manipulation,the gas-lighting, the hitting, wasn't going to stop and for her sake and mine we broke up. I am glad I don't speak to her anymore, that had to be the most Poisonous relationship I ever been it, the partners I had after her where alot healthier, I guess some people just don't click, it takes two to have a good relationship or a bad one, there is no real victim and I might get shit for saying that, but it is true, even if someone is the abused they are just as guilty because they let the abuse happen, which is what I did, I let her abuse me, use me, mistreat me, then it just escalated it took that me defending myself without thinking to make me realize this was bad, that if we where to stay together it wouldn't stop, I mean being woken up from sleep by violence is a sign that it ain't gonna get better, who knows next time I might have not woken up at all or we would get violent more and more.
 
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@OBIWAN616 you can't blame somebody for being abused..

I mean, speak for yourself. We all have choices, yes. Inevitably, you are the only person who can get yourself out of any situation; by leaving. But emotional abuse, such as gas-lighting, for instance- is so fucked up because it convinces a sane person, that they are insane, and that whatever they may be feeling, or experience, is illegitimate. At this point, it's not as easy to just decide the situation is fucked up, and leave. It makes you question your reality. And not in a good way. It makes you question your own validity, even more than say that of the person who undeniably fucked with you.

This shit is dangerous, and makes extremely strong willed, and outgoing people, shove their faces in the ground and keep their mouths shut.

Deep rooted shit. Our society loves fucking gas-lighting the populous.

We are all products of our society, and upbringing. But it all comes down to identifying this, and understanding your own feelings. Being in tune with what you know is right, not what you're told is acceptable. Then, following through with these beliefs. Turning them into actions.
 

salxtina

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visionquest I'm sorry that poison of it's-just-normal has been put so heavy on you I hope you can get free of it and reclaim yr righteous fury and an insurrectionary historical analysis soon xo xo xo
 

zielum

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I have Borderline Personality Disorder and didn't know it until a year ago. So I abused my ex husband for years in a lot of ways that I shouldn't have. Yes he had a lot of faults, but the justification I felt in blowing up on him and taunting him was absolutely wrong.

But aside from all that, one of the big abuses I've done sticks out--it was only one event, but...Okay so I'm a huge feminist; consent and rape and manipulation are all very big issues to me. Well, at one point my ex decided to let me peg him, the first and only time. I was so excited. We started trying and he was laughing while telling me to stop. His laughing was a sign of his deep discomfort but I took it as "oh, he's not actually serious, I can keep going." Problem was, 1) I knew him well enough to know that he deals with discomfort with humor, so I should have known better to begin with, and 2) there was a point where I could tell his laugh wasn't a real laugh, and he was trying to squirm away, but I was so worried that he'd never let me try it again--this would be my final chance--that I protested and held him and said "No no no! Just hold on, please, I just want to keep trying, I really want to do this"....I stopped about 10 seconds after that but like....I sat there, horrified at myself, realizing that I had just brushed past his boundaries and knowingly kept going after a pretty clear "Stop".....basically, I did exactly what I've always abhorred so much in others.

I apologized to him, sincerely, and though I've never been in that kind of situation since, I know that I never want to do it again. Of all the crappy things I've done in my life, that one really...made me question if I'm a good person at heart. It also gave me a new perspective on men pushing boundaries. I still don't condone it by any means but at least now I understand that feeling of wanting something so badly that you choose to interpret things a certain way in the heat of the moment.
 

onandonward

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Abuse is pretty common in this community and I think unfortunately a lot, if not all of us, have had to reckon with our role within an abusive relationship. Most of us are hurt people reenacting our own pain, living the exact type of lifestyle liable to exacerbate and conjure new types of pain.

I have never been abusive to a romantic partner, as far as I know, and I am terrified of ever being abusive, but I have been, er, "abused" and I feel that the healing process for an abuser is probably one somewhat similar to the healing process of a victim. However much I enjoy reveling in my own hatred for my abusers, said hatred and anger has never given me peace, and, if anything, has just increased the chances that I could foreseeably snap and/or justify my own hurtful actions towards others.

Similarly, I think you should perhaps not "forgive" yourself, but take any reactionary self-hatred you have and put it somewhere else. Self hatred can be immensely self absorbed when it comes down to it. If you really want to do the people you've hurt a favor, methodically go through thought exercises where you liken experiences of your own pain in the past to what your victims may have experienced. Times when you have felt controlled, trapped, silenced, powerless. Imagine you are the one being violated. Understanding is so much more valuable to victims than a recovering abuser's anger at themselves. Oftentimes I have seen abusers and/or the general public roll their eyes at the extreme reactions of victims, and it is extremely important to banish that from yourself. One person's psychic hell may be a brief trip to purgatory for another, and everyone approaches life with their own past experiences: emotional and physical.

Recognizing that you have acted hurtfully in the past is impressive only if you attempt to truly live in opposition to your former self. I have never been an abuser, but I have been a dumb teenager, and I know that identifying negative parts of myself when I was 14/15 was really essential for me growing out of my own protective narcissism and negativity and becoming a person I am proud to be.

What has happened has happened. That doesn't make it okay, but I have found (at least in my case) that almost every unfortunate scenario I have been in and almost every unfortunate role I have played can be made into a mental asset. Some people never experience their own extremes, whether it be deep depression or euphoria or anger or kindness or cruelty, and therefore never know themselves all that deeply. You know what about yourself you have to alter, if you haven't already, and that itself is a gift.
 

OBIWAN616

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Resentments will kill you, I forgiven Mouse for the abuse she put me through, the last morning we where together, we got into a very petty argument, over cigarettes, she maced me with made I bought her, then jump on me and started choking me, I couldn't see or breathe, so I started to swing, I punched her in the nose, and knocked her out cold, I didn't know what was going on, I literally just woke up, and she told me to buy her smokes, I told her I didn't have enough money, because we spent it one booze, then next thing I know, I can't see or breathe, I didn't know wtf was going on, I reacted, it wasn't like this before, we weren't this bar, it just escalated, mouse though it was ok to hit me, because I let her, and then she started to try to kill me, at this point it was bad, I didn't want to believe that she did this to me, that it was someone else, but when I started to see, I saw her laying on the ground, with blood on her face, I started to cry, cry let me a baby, I didn't want this, at all, and she disappeared, I looked up and she was gone, I got scared that she was behind me or something, but no, she was gone, I had mixed feelings the whole day, I cried, I felt horrible for hitting her, I never hit her like that before, the only other time was a few months before that when she had a knife to my throat and I slapped her(should have left at that point but no, she played the victim) she called me that night crying, saying she was sorry and to meet up with her, I was gonna hitch to Dunsmer and hop south to Colton and east, instead I went 60 miles north to met up with her, only to be set up, she was with two other guys, she basically told those guys that I beat her, and she was innocent, playing the victim, I knew the truth, she wasn't the victim, nether was I, but she played it, she told those guys that I came there to kill her, and that wasn't the case at all, she called me apologizing, anyway, they try to take my dog(that's another thing, I used to have two dogs, Harley and Gonzo, she sold my other one Gonzo, at this pot farm we where working at to the people we where working for,It took me awhile before I had to accept that, I mean everything she go on a town run she you come back with like $300, and I was lucky if I got $5, like that's when I knew something was up, with my dog suddenly missing and her having Mony) she told them that Harley was her dog, which was also bullshit, I paid for every one of her gets visits and shots, I always was the one buying and feeding and carrying her dog food, I was the one who adopted her in the first place! And I just said, you abused me, used me and now you're gonna take my dog? I pulled out my knife and hid it in my bibs, I was ready to kill these kids, the one kid grabbed Harley's leash and then took a swing at me, Harley bit him in his arm, I. Grabbed Harley to her her off of him, then I did, the other guy had a knife running at me, then the cops pulled up(we where in the parking lot of a Burger King in broad Daylight) we all ran in different directions, they didn't case me and these tweakers let me hide in their van and gave me a ride south, but I forgive her, for all that, the physical, emotional, psychological, abuse, the gaslighting, withholding affections, the victimising all of it, I forgive myself too, I hated myself for staying and for hitting her, I knocked her out cold, and I didn't think, I just acted, I didn't even know I got her, be it took me awhile to forgive myself, because I loved her and didn't ever want to hurt her, now wether or not she forgives me or herself is her problem, all I gotta say is resentments kill.
 

bip

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ive just tried to never be the person i was. a lot of stuff i didnt understand was wrong. some stuff i knew was wrong but i was so resentful i was trying to be hurtful on purpose. i never want to be who i was again
 

Brodiesel710

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whoa, warning issued... i mean @Brodiesel710 .... really??
Guess I set myself up for that one. Yes I really said that to my wife, "Sexist or misogynistic material" would have been a better category for your warning. I'm not boasting about being an asshole, I was honestly commenting on the thread topic.
 

Brodiesel710

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@Brodiesel710 - bravo for your candor & I'm sure there's more by way of context. No, I'm not saying abuse is justifiable - I'm commenting on your willingness to openly share something here that doesn't show you in a flattering light. I've been there too - not recently, thankfully, but it's often difficult to admit or face horrible things we do. I hope you're able to grow and improve. I believe most of us are subject to similar impulses; I don't know if it's just getting older (maybe reduced testosterone?) but I'm grateful for mellowing in my anger reactions. You mentioned in the sobriety thread you're giving up alcohol - more power to you.
Yes there is more context but it doesn't justify my actions (it would make them sound even worse) I was dealt with accordingly by my wife, who I very much love and respect, going on 7 years. She's aware of my upbringing so my very occasional outbursts are only somewhat forgivable, this one will probably linger for a couple more years. It had nothing do with booze (it was 7am) but I'm definitely stoked to take this next year off from drinking. Let us grow and improve!
 

Stiv Rhodes

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This is a difficult and important conversation for all communities to be having. I was in a relationship for 10 years in which I was subjected to extreme abuse. My partner dominated our finances, contributed nothing to the care of our home or our children, assaulted me and kidnapped our children to retaliate against me for trying to leave the relationship many times, tried to murder me 5 years after the relationship ended, and continued stalking me 2 years after that. I've been dealing with this person in one way or another for almost my entire adulthood, and I'm middle aged now. One of the ways this affected me was to desensitize me to smaller forms of abuse which I have at times been guilty of. While I've never been physically coercive, I've definitely been sexually manipulative. I've also taken advantage of a partner's kindness and generosity without much reciprocation. I do think victems usually play a part in the abuse, mostly by making immature or naive decisions and not realizing early warning signs, I sure did. This is not to say they are to blame, a person does not deserve to be hurt just for putting themselves in a vulnerable position. This is also not to say that a person is entirely free to leave once they are in a coercive relationship. Rather, that recognizing this is the first step towards preventing future abuses. Perpetrators will not stop preying on people just because you explain to them how it makes those people feel or why it's wrong. The only proven method for correcting abusive behavior patterns is negative concequences.
 

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