External vs internal frame packs.

[wartomods]

As far as punk points go,I'm about 25 years out of date with what works,but the best method I can think to test the two out would be as follows:get 5 1 gallon jugs,fill with water.Put them in one of the packs and try dealing with the pack for 12 hours(carrying,keeping track of,running;the standard day to day on the road).Whichever of the two doesn't make your lower back and knees feel like they are going to fall off,that's the one!

there is always the chance that both will make you feel that way

 

[Peregrin]

thanks for the replies, as you said lee... there is only one way to find out.

 

[IBRRHOBO]

if ur hiking to hike and not travel much go w/the LL Bean. also, when u say non framed u may be talking about internal frame (LL Bean has some); regardless, for just going out and hiking ditch the army pack unless u r hiking to get into shape for travelling then use it.

concur w/Lee by the way except i use sand instead of water and run it in garbage bags because sand will move more like gear w/o being constrained in the jugs.

welcome aboard and maybe type stuff in the search field on all things about packs (i.e.; packs, internal frame, army pack, alice pack, etc.)

 

[Peregrin]

great advice, thanks everyone. im definitely going to put them to the test before heading out.

 

[IBRRHOBO]

yeah, wider is pretty spot on. i remember a greenhorn in my early days catchin w/me and Long Gone. well'p here comes fucking rain from hell and we pulled the fins outta the interior slots on our internal frame packs and slid right in the hole and this kid had an external frame (kinda like the old coleman boy scout shit) and was stranded on the porch. sad thing was that he was on a grainer going into the wind and we were in what i call the apartment grainers (canadian double hole no porch).

i currently have a gregory 6200 cu inch for long hauls (gotta understand here that when i go cross country i tend to never hit a town and climb off a lot at sidings to see how often trains stop there for strategic reasons). for tristate runs i use a EMS 4700 cu inch (Big Red --- Rise and some of the folks know it).

the reality is that wider is spot on in his statements about not REALLY needing the kind of huge gear i pack; see when i started you had to be REAL self sufficient and that's simply not the case. also i'm a VERY anti-social person; i'd rather hang out cooking coffee and drinking my bourbon ALONE! i also like wider's point about hitchin'. you're GONNA have to do it at some point because the bull throws u off, etc. virtuallly ALL rides i got (and i always asked for future profiling data) told me the only reason they stopped was that it looked like i would never get a ride as my gear was huge!

 

[wartomods]

I strongly disagree with your statement! Also if you ask me a statement like that just shows your ignorance to any form of travel weather it be train hopping, hitching, flying, Amtrak, buses, hiking, or just spending real time in the wilderness

Almost all packs have a time to shine... Example when I go on long hikes with my 12lbs of gear, a pack that light does not need a frame of any kind, internal or external... So that pretty much blows your statement "framed packs are superiour to any non framed pack" out of the fucking water!

External frame packs are good for humping a LOT of gear a long ways but they suck for riding trains or hitching... Good luck getting your external frame 5000 cubic inch pack with all that shit hanging on it into a hole of a CP grainer, or maybe into someones tiny car that is packed with crap when your hitching....etc.

Internal frame packs are good for most people doing most thing, and packing standard amount of stuff 20-30lbs... Hitching, trains, hiking...etc. That's why the majority of packs are this.

Ultra light weight packs are good for just that... If everything you carry is under 15lbs you really have no need for a frame support in a pack.

There is a reason you don't see people hiking with ALICE or MOLLE military packs... Its cause they suck and they are heavy as shit... They are made bomb proof for going to war... and often times they are very over built for riding trains, hitching, hiking...etc.

If you look at the 'traveler' community and I use that term loosely here and you look at the type of packs different people use you will likely see the same trend I see...

People that are all fucking 'HardCORE!' dirty kids like to portray the look that they got going for them and have that beat to hell ALICE pack, these people will often live and die by that pack since its part of there image and having a well fitting quality pack would likely get them made fun off by there shitty friends... Your average lower-middle class rider that is not all Mr. Crusty Punk that may have started riding trains with a $15 ALICE pack will likely upgrade to something better when they have the means to since they are not fun packs to own and use.

Any larger bag nowadays, except army surplus shit has some kind of frame, even if you dont see it, it has plastic or something to give it rigidity. And i stand my point any pack bigger than your average school backpack has to have a frame for support or it will be an unbearable ride.
Btw i am not here to prove anything, i dont care if people think if i know or dont know anything about travelling or any other topic.
Just point one good pack that hasnt a frame and is big enough for hauling all the street gear, you know not everyone ride trains as a sport, and goes to the yard by car get off in the next city and get the bus home, i rarely ride trains in my travels, but for everything else during months, a big framed bacpack is the only way to go, as i dont think there are many big unframed packs that are worthwhile. Of course some people cant get hold of framed packs and just get by with a duffle bag, but getting to choose a framed pack is the best.

Almost all packs have a time to shine

you are absolutely right i love to sport my louis vitton when i am heading to the local gentlemen's club

 

[wartomods]

Are you implying that's what I do?

i am not implying nothing, cause i dont know you, plus it would be unfair to make any judgment or something.
I just think you should not be so zealous. I prefer the framed packs, i had bad experiences with unframed packs applying weight to wrong areas and crooking my back.

 

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

All depends on what I am planning on packing I own both each serves a purpose

 

[theitchtohitch]

I prefer internal myself. And that's for backpacking and hitching. I find that my internal bag sits better on my back than most externals that I've tried, which is nice for long distance hiking. You do lose some compartmentalization with the internal bag, but I organize my stuff in dry bags anyway, so it's moot point. I like internals for crawling around in brush and whatnot too, less bits of bag to get caught on thorns and branches.

And that goes double for hitching. I'd much rather have a compact internal frame for getting into/out of rides and running around on the shoulder.

 

[dharmabumpkin]

If you are packing light and decided to take a pack without a frame or make your own DIY pack w/o a frame you can use a bed roll as the frame. just put it in and let it expad and stuff you shit in the middle like a taquito. this can be a comfy really light option if weight is a concern. most external fram packs weigh over 5lbs, internals are usually 5-2 lbs and no frame packs are basically just fabric (not always a durable fabric). but making your own is not that hard, just borrow your mom or grandmas sewing machine, buy some cheap tough fabric online, and follow an online step-by-step

 

[3t87]

i have a cfp-90 and so i have to go with internal frame, but have had external frame alice packs before and like them as well, but the cfp-90 i think is alot more comfortable and versatile then the alice overall,i have had my cfp-90 for 3yrs and it is in medium condition but has seen alot use.

 

[Linda/Ziggy]

Hey,
I have 'vintage' Kelty from the late 1970's.
I love it !
I have modified it, cut the metal head/roll mat rest off of it.
Will probably cut it down even smaller at some point.
Only thing I don't like is the waist belt is toooooo short !

I prefer it to big floppy bags because , well it doesn't flop around
and I can lean against it, practically sit on it standing up when I'm stuck hitching, hanging out.

I had big no frame bags for years, and big floppy bags with inside metal strips.
Thus thing is much better and well I'm nostalgic having grown up in the
70's and 80's with old frame packs.

 

[Myechtatel]

^I LOVE vintage frame packs! I'm actually starting a collection. on the road I use a Kelty Trekker 3950 external frame pack. hands down best travelin pack ever.

 

[Redd Capp]

picked up a metal frame pak from goodwill. As a trainhopper I found it hard to get on and off trains and could not squeeze into the grainer holes and it interfered with me getting on a off trains as I usually swing my pack on and off.Even Amtrak/Metro North was a pain in the ass as I could not sqeeze my pack into the luggage compartment and kept nicking other commuters.
Plus it held less because it did not have the ability to stretch. I have had some internal frame packs with plastic frames but never again will I do a metal frame.

 

[HUMANCONTRAST]

do you mean those 80's metal frame hiking packs? I had one for about 3 days last winter cos my pack broke when i was in philly so my friend gave me one... it lasted from when i caught the joose from philly to jax and broke when i threw it off.

 

[wildboy860]

sounds about right. there's a reason you dont see most traveler's with those kinda packs. cuase they fuckin suck all around!!! the only thing they're goood for is the 'weekend warrior' types.

 

[Mouse]

i find that the metal frames just add pointless weight to the pack also. Cheaper ones don't provide enuff support to be worth it.

those super expensive hiking packs with internal frames to fit on your back really comfortably but if you need anything in terms of maneuverability yer SOL.

 

[travelin]

ive got this crazy idea to build an internal frame for the alice type packs. they are great non frame rucks, but the external frame is bulky.

 

[Johnny P]

I got one kicked down in Eugene and have been using it for about 6 weeks now and yes they fuckin suck! Hopefully I will hae a new one soon. It really limits my rides to Boxcars and 48's. It doesn't even fit thru the door of a DPU. I'm sick of it! I'm gonna throw it off a train when I finally do get a new one!

 

[Kim Chee]

ive got this crazy idea to build an internal frame for the alice type packs. they are great non frame rucks, but the external frame is bulky.

If you are that ambitious, maybe consider cut/weld the metal frame to reduce the bulk as long as strength isn't sacrificed. Check out my avatar, my unaltered alice frame is in a CDN grainer.
I'll admit, getting into a unit is a bit sluggish and awkward.