Effective 'resistance' versus pointless rioting? | Squat the Planet

Effective 'resistance' versus pointless rioting?

stove

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Alright, so I've never been to a rally, protest, organized resistance, whatever you want to call it. But still, looking from the outside, what's the point? Smashing some windows, getting arrested...does that really solve anything, other than indicating how pissed off, and ultimately riddiculously stupid and mob-oriented, people are?

I'd love to hear some EFFECTIVE suggestions.

Here are mine:

PR stunt: Get someone dressed up real nice- clean cute, shaven, suit, tie, buff the shoes, the works. Have a few shooters (VIDEOCAMERAs) discretely taping every second, and maybe throw a bug or two on them. Have the dummy (literally) get picked up by the pigs- walking down a closed street, through a riot zone, whatever. Do it again and again until you get a response. Record and then publish the whole thing as a negative PR smear on cops.

The only problem is, you need someone clean-cut who can take a hit. When I get back to the states, if I'm not busy, I'll volunteer, assuming I can find a trust-worthy video crew.


Also, as someone mentioned an upcoming IMF meeting in April in DC- DONT SHOW. Seriously, just have a few guys show up, shoot some vids and pics, and then get out. Show absolutely overwhelming police prescence, without any real need. Again, negative PR. But all of this "we can beat the cops" shit is riddiculous- violence begets violence, and when it comes down to it, they've got more guns. And they've got a history of killing. Do you want to really go head-to-head against that?
 

LovelyAcorns

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I have a question. Why is it that pacifists have to say the exact same thing, fucking over and over again? We get it, breaking stuff is useless mob mentality (tribe mentality?), PR is God, and violence begets violence (which, in fact, would justify our violence as inevitable if true).


Everybody has already heard this, and you know everybody has already heard this. Are you simply going for "power through omnipresence" or something?
 

Franny

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The POINT is visibility. Not saying that's always accomplished, but that's usually the goal. People get confused on this issue though: the point is not to make yourself visible, but to make the issue visible.

I see both mob-riots and pacifist sit-down strikes effective depending on the situation. A lot of the problem in my mind is that some want to make direct action a fashion show. The original purpose of black blocks was to allow a group to be easily identified without letting the individuals be easily identified. My mind is not working properly right now, I didn't explain that very well. I'm going to come back when I can organize my thoughts.
 

wizehop

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I have to be honest here. I see protests on TV and they don't even register. When those huge protests took place regarding the war it did nothing for me...it was a 30 second news clip. If anything they all look like a bunch of idiot.. you have people who kill, lie, cheat, oppress to get what they want and people march in fucking parades..seriously.

Protesting is self righteous masturbation and nothing more
 
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Pheonix

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other than Martin Luther King, who remembers the non-violent protesters. but I do remember that the unibomber mailed bombs to protest technology and Timothy Mcvay bombed the federal building in OKC to protest the ATFs actions at Waco,TX
 

joemojave

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Since nobody has said anything yet, I am going to assume that a lot of people here dont understand the true power of nonviolent resistance. The point is not to get lots of publicity and pressure those in power to do what you want, but to get those in power to sympathize with you. Pressuring those in power into making change is only a side effect. I cant explain it very well, so I'll just say that you want to show those in power how important the issue is to you. Thats why hunger strike is such a powerfull tool. You are showing people that the issue at hand is more to you important than food, and ultimately life.

I am sure that everyone reading this either thinks I am crazy or already knows what I am talking about. If you think I am crazy but you are willing to take the time to learn yourself, check out this youtube video.



This is a one hour video that will give you an idea of the basics. If you are still interested you can watch the rest of the course by searching PACs 164A on youtube.
 

Stargazer

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I HATE 99.9% of protesters, Notice how they're always the same broke ass crusty losers with a bandanna, dreadlocks and a chez Guavera T-Shirt calling anyone with a tucked in shirt, haircut and job a "facist"?.....And they always put so much effort into rioting, they should put more commitment into getting their lives together. And they're always so informed about how the "Facist Establishment" is investing in the "war machine"....So what are we left with, some broke, "neo commie anarchist?" sitting on a sidewalk drunk off no name beer, sharing a joint with his other friends who are also real winners......and remember, these are the guys trying to give people political advice. lol
 

MoetThePoet

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is nobody here gonna talk about community organizing? lol

the most opressed people in the system can't put on balaclavas, risk getting arrested or drop out.

Food not bombs, worker coops and takeovers, land take overs, student, worker and housewife strikes, arming the neighborhood and organizing assemblies is where it's at

notice im not hating on demos because demos do have political weight, but demos alone can't replace community organizing, ever.

btw, "chez guevara"? lol.
 
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Eviscerate

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i think any type of dissent is good. i think the real problem with society today is that nowhere near enough people are politically active. if people arent willing to go the whole way and riot well so be it. its not the way i think they should go about voicing their dissatisfaction but its better than ol stargazer who couldn't give two shits about anything.

we need more protests more strikes more riots because we have to teach people that this is how they should be.

Stargazer, you post in all of these threads as if you know ever single protester ever in existence. these are the people that fight for your rights. these are the people who keep the internet free that try to keep government surveillance to a minimum and you have the balls to tell them that they dont know what they are talking about? Maybe, infact probably they know a fuckload more about politics and the way the world works than you ever will. the middle and lower classes have fought and fought for their right to speak and you dare tell us now that all that is worthless?
 

Gudj

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I'd love to hear some EFFECTIVE suggestions.

Here are mine:

PR stunt: Get someone dressed up real nice- clean cute, shaven, suit, tie, buff the shoes, the works. Have a few shooters (VIDEOCAMERAs) discretely taping every second, and maybe throw a bug or two on them. Have the dummy (literally) get picked up by the pigs- walking down a closed street, through a riot zone, whatever. Do it again and again until you get a response. Record and then publish the whole thing as a negative PR smear on cops.

The only problem is, you need someone clean-cut who can take a hit. When I get back to the states, if I'm not busy, I'll volunteer, assuming I can find a trust-worthy video crew.


That doesn't make sense.
Right now, the very best that bad PR (say, a video of cops beating someone to death) accomplishes, is getting pissed people out in the street for a "pointless" riot.
What else could it be good for? If enough people youtube the video, you think that we are going to peacefully vote the cops out of existence?
Neither tactic is anywhere near perfect (rioting and PR...voting doesn't count as a tactic), but ALL possible tactics must be used together to get anywhere. Boycott is useless, small riots are useless, protests are useless, sabotage is useless, even targeted assassinations are useless. Historically it's when all these are combined, that shit gets going.

Disclaimer to whoever is reading this: I am not going to assassinate anyone or convince anyone else to, I said that as an example of historical tactics during revolutions.
 
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connerR

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the most opressed people in the system can't put on balaclavas, risk getting arrested or drop out.

I think that's an important thing that a lot of protestors and activists overlook. If you want to start a revolution, shouting a bunch of bullshit slogans and waving pretty signs isn't going to do much. You need to understand what demographics you'll be going after and how you plan on relaying the message to them. Protesting is marketing; the protest itself is perhaps the most primal form of advertisement available.

The best way in my mind to start any kind of revolution - peaceful or violent - is to make it both palatable and encompassing. While the average people may agree philosophically at the end of the day, they're going to see punk kids with patched up clothes, crazy hair, tattoos and piercings, etc, and think, "these kids are crazy!" I think the Anarchist Bookfair in SF a few months back was the quintessential example of this: I think I saw three people there who looked "normal" (inb4 shitstorm, you know what I mean; there are people this society trusts and people society doesn't trust). The rest were tat'd, pierced, dirty punk kids. You can boycott, riot, protest, sabotage, and bust caps, but if the general public aren't on your side, you're going nowhere.
 

MoetThePoet

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I don't know if my last post was too harsh or whatever
Just wanted to point out that I think demos are fun to attend and it's a nice activity to get out of closed room meetings, and all the boring crap that activism can be. It's an important thing, but not "good enough"

I just wanna make it clear that im not definitely putting down demos and riots. But I still think we need more than that (ESPECIALLY neighborhood, household and workplace assemblies)

As for people dressing up and looking like punks and it alienating people, I don't think it alienates anyone, and I think we should celebrate a variety of identities and "sub"cultures within the movement. From crustie kids to moms who look like moms.

Otherwise, would you leave out bboys cause their looks alienate people? What about cultures who don't dress "mainstream"? Do you supress them?
 

connerR

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Punks, bboys, goths, metalheads...whatever stupid classification that humans have lumped themselves into...none of those people are considered serious in the world. There are more people pursuing the American Dream than there are protesting.
 
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MoetThePoet

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So because they're not taken seriously they should be supressed and silenced? Should everyone wear a westernized shirt and tie so that they can be taken seriously?
What the population needs to acknowledge is that subcultures and cultures should be taken seriously, and change their view of what is considered serious. Not just adapt to their version of what serious is. Otherwise it's vanguardist and it most probably is what "the power" tells them serious is (shirt and tie, westernized civilization)
 
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connerR

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So because they're not taken seriously they should be supressed and silenced? Should everyone wear a westernized shirt and tie so that they can be taken seriously?
What the population needs to acknowledge is that subcultures and cultures should be taken seriously, and change their view of what is considered serious. Not just adapt to their version of what serious is. Otherwise it's vanguardist and it most probably is what "the power" tells them serious is (shirt and tie, westernized civilization)

Well, that's not quite what I'm saying. They should not be suppressed and silenced. But what the population should do and what they will do are two different things. The reason certain subcultures aren't successful is because they do a poor job of representing themselves seriously. For every anarcho-punk who really knows his or her shit, who I actually respect for their knowledge on the subject they choose to take the side of, I can show you probably ten scumfucks who just want to break things and get fucked up. And the population (that really is a terrible word to use) lumps both of them together. Granted, it's a two-way street: assuming you have to wear a westernized shirt and tie is just as much of a misconception.

I think a good example of this is the Canadian G20 protests. The only people who seem to care are other protestors and the anti-Capitalist community around the world which, it seems, is quite the minority. The rest of the world (the people I'd assume they'd be trying to convince?) has labeled them as effete "idiots" who are just making a bunch of noise. This article is just one of many portraying this: durhamregion.com | What it's like to protest the G20. Also, I found it humorous when I read on a message board that Lakers fans caused just as much chaos as the protestors, and they were just drunk sports fans.
 
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Pheonix

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yea them drunk sports fans really know how to riot. I think we should have sports fans riot for us it would be easy just give them free beer than when their nice and drunk talk shit about their favorite team.
 

coldsteelrail

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We live in a fucking capitalistic police state, where protesting is a priveledge, not a right. Everyone has their own way of trying to get their point across that another world is possible. If you've ever been to a protest, you'll notice that not everyone is a youth, and there are a lot of 'mainstream' people out there, shouting for change alongside the kids in bandanas and the neo hippes. The world changes with ourselves, with our communities, and change is created when the people come together, and create actions tenaciously. Knowledge is power. We are coming to desperate times, and when you all find out an 'effective' way to be resistant, or even what it is you are cohesively resisting, let me know.

wizehop wrote: "Protesting is self righteous masturbation and nothing more"

Indeed, any massive social change that a small group of people have created for themselves, has started with protests. A protest only looks like a parade when you don't believe in the issue, when you're uneducated, when there aren't enough consequetive protests, and perhaps when the protest becomes a venue for every active group in the city to come out to promote their own separate issues. Stay aware and get involved, and you might be moved to protest yourself, even if they can feel like a parade. I agree that from the outside, looking in, it can be difficult to decipher chants, or to stop the marchers and ask what is going on. It is about visibility, but how does a protest become coherant and inclusive?

I think the violent actions would make a better statement if done outside of the 'peaceful' protests, and i believe a passive march is most effective if it goes on for days, and is accompanied by other forms of public outreach and community organising. I believe a lot of the rioting is instigated by the police themselves, however when people are rioting, at sport events, or at protests, i think it expresses anger, and discontent, and it's important to harness that energy and use it. It isn't called 'smash the state' for nothing. I advocate sitting peacefully in the face of state resistance, but sitting peacefully is gonna get your ass trampled, even if it does attract positive mainstream attention. I also believe in arming and militarizing the people, but what comforts are we in rich 'western' nations willing to let go of?

Protesting (passive or violent) is an important tool to educate, recruit, build mass resistance, and create a vital energy for change to build within our communities. I agree with those who say we need more protests, full of more people; However protesting must lead to direct action, and if we want the world to change, i think we've got to be prepared to give up our cushy lives and to die for our cause.

Believe in the power of people, and the process of change! If you criticize the actions used, be creative, and try other tactics!
 

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