Anarchy is actually far right (1 Viewer)

Coywolf

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There is a gay immigrant american man by the name of Milo Yianopolous who is definitely provocative but who was banned from twitter and CNN refuses to interview. When he went to speak at Berkeley a riot in sewed and so they cancelled his speech. This is an attack on his right to speak. There are many of examples of this and most of the violence and intolerance is coming from the so-called left in america contrary to popular belief.

Ok this is where I have to stop you. Milo Yianopolous is a fucking scum on the face of this earth.

That fucktard is one of the main causes of hate speech in this country. Fuck that guy.

And I am not sure you understand what "free speech" is in the country.

Free speech means you can say what every you want, but that doesnt mean anyone else has to listen to it, or host you to be able to promote it.

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And I, for one, coming from a more of a leftist background will say FUCK Nazis, FUCK hate speech, and FUCK anyone who thinks they can regulate what one can do with their bodies, sexuality, religion, race, or personal decisions. Seriously.
 
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AlwaysLost

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Its illegal to use solar power in certain parts of the country punishable by imprisonment. Enjoy your free speech while it lasts lol. I dont agree with NAZIs, my grandpa killed quite a few, but unfortunately as long as no crime is committed they do have the right to speak.
 

paiche

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I've had the misfortune of being caught up in this attack on free speech debate. I've come out of it with the perspective that it is a strategy that white supremacists are using to normalize their platform which is a danger and I think that is the fundamental reason the far left is shouting them down. I will admit though the whole thing is confusing and messed up and they are finding themselves putting far too much effort in fighting soft targets for an easy 'win'. Also i'm skeptical and thinking it may be another tactic the elite is using to push us peasants into us vs. them mini battles so that we will never have the energy to actually organize to do anything productive and make any real positive social changes. (If you dismiss that as a crazy conspiracy theory first check out the cointelpro papers) This URL is to a video of one person's perspective on it. I agree with much of it, you may find it worth your while to watch, especially if you don't understand the issue, it's 9 minutes long:
 
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Anarchism is neither left nor right. Anarchism is, as Renzo Novatore put it after WWI, "the eternal struggle of an aristocratic minority of outsiders against every society.."
One would think, by how the vast majority of "anarchists" today talk, that anarchism has always been composed of rabid collectivists, impotent whiners, and bourgeois pseudo-intellectuals. A great deal of anarchist history was made by individualists and egoists, and at one time, these wings of anarchism were large enough to overshadow the stultifying collectivism that infected anarchism at the turn of the century.

On the right private property is worshipped.
On the left private property is hated.
To the anarchist, what one has the force or cunning to seize or control is their property. All ethical systems implying the contrary - that is, both left and right - fail to understand how rights work: rights are social fictions invented by the weak to attempt to obtain by guilt what they could not by force. The whining leftist says "we have a right to the means of production" but is afraid to shoot, has never stolen much, or subverted anything, and so his talk about rights is an aesthetic talk designed to display his tribal affiliation with other high-minded weaklings. At least he belongs somewhere. But these people are irrelevant in the winds of history.. the ones who alter history's course are generally solitaries with a penchant for subversion and tactics, who arm their high aesthetic values with gunpowder and brilliant schemes.
Who, left or right, manages this? All follow their herds and engage in their outrage like birds of a feather...
 

Cracker

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Anarchism is neither left nor right. Anarchism is, as Renzo Novatore put it after WWI, "the eternal struggle of an aristocratic minority of outsiders against every society.."
One would think, by how the vast majority of "anarchists" today talk, that anarchism has always been composed of rabid collectivists, impotent whiners, and bourgeois pseudo-intellectuals. A great deal of anarchist history was made by individualists and egoists, and at one time, these wings of anarchism were large enough to overshadow the stultifying collectivism that infected anarchism at the turn of the century.

On the right private property is worshipped.
On the left private property is hated.
To the anarchist, what one has the force or cunning to seize or control is their property. All ethical systems implying the contrary - that is, both left and right - fail to understand how rights work: rights are social fictions invented by the weak to attempt to obtain by guilt what they could not by force. The whining leftist says "we have a right to the means of production" but is afraid to shoot, has never stolen much, or subverted anything, and so his talk about rights is an aesthetic talk designed to display his tribal affiliation with other high-minded weaklings. At least he belongs somewhere. But these people are irrelevant in the winds of history.. the ones who alter history's course are generally solitaries with a penchant for subversion and tactics, who arm their high aesthetic values with gunpowder and brilliant schemes.
Who, left or right, manages this? All follow their herds and engage in their outrage like birds of a feather...

Dude that was amazing, thank you for your input. I totally agree
 

Cracker

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And I, for one, coming from a more of a leftist background will say FUCK Nazis, FUCK hate speech, and FUCK anyone who thinks they can regulate what one can do with their bodies, sexuality, religion, race, or personal decisions. Seriously.

I do actually agree with you, but aren't Leftist doing that very same thing when they say that a religious institution must marry gay couples, and they are using the federal government to do it. Isn't calling someone a Nazi or white-supremacist kind of hateful speech (when in fact they are not)? There are working class people in america who have been marginalized and told by BLM that they are a bunch of privileged racists and that's not okay. The left is actually responsible for Trump becoming president for this very reason good job now we all have to deal with his dumb-ass.

And I also think it's funny how the very first response was that Anarchism is on the left and made it seem like that was a given and I was dumb for asking. I'm here to learn and I'm trying to stay humble and open-minded even if others won't. I'm trying my best to show respect for everyone's views and my own views are not set in stone. Life is a journey and I am always looking to grow. But please people don't bash someone walking the journey like they are less-than.
 

Cracker

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Oh and that article I posted about the 3d printed guns is fucken bad ass you should check it out, and it is relevant because the guy considers himself a crypto-anarchist and gun control is big on the lefts agenda.
 

Tadaa

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@Cracker
1st Question: can you define free speech as how you see it?
Cause you disagree with my view on protesters shutting down events.

2nd. I understand that you use 'leftist' as a general term for people disagreeing with the ruling 'rightwing'. And sure, i understand using the term somehow. But i hope you know that they are way more diverse and even divided.
For example BLM . Its a group protesting to make a point on racial issues happening in the usa.
Antifa is a doing the same with the extreme right gaining power.
Does this mean they are all leftist and could work together ruling a leftist goverment? No.. they are adressing problems happening in society.

When you say leftist are demanding religous institutions to marry gay people. Those are idiots. Find a differwnt church. Or change the church from within. But this has nothing to do with the 'left side' demanding rights from the goverment.
I believe people have to keep their mouth shut about others peoples lives and bodies. Everybody has the right to marry whomever they want, end their lives when sick, get an abortion,.. and yes. We should fight till every person in the world has these rights. Meaning if you are conservative and against any of these.. sure, speak once, then keep your mouth shut and let everybody live their lives. But you will not rule my body and life.

3th. Me being a white male with a european passport does make me privileged in my opinion.

4th. Also.. can you explain how the left put trump in power?



Kind of wish we can just sit at a bar and have this discusion with some beers..
 
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I do actually agree with you, but aren't Leftist doing that very same thing when they say that a religious institution must marry gay couples, and they are using the federal government to do it. Isn't calling someone a Nazi or white-supremacist kind of hateful speech (when in fact they are not)? There are working class people in america who have been marginalized and told by BLM that they are a bunch of privileged racists and that's not okay. The left is actually responsible for Trump becoming president for this very reason good job now we all have to deal with his dumb-ass.

And I also think it's funny how the very first response was that Anarchism is on the left and made it seem like that was a given and I was dumb for asking. I'm here to learn and I'm trying to stay humble and open-minded even if others won't. I'm trying my best to show respect for everyone's views and my own views are not set in stone. Life is a journey and I am always looking to grow. But please people don't bash someone walking the journey like they are less-than.

Here's why you are being poorly received: Most of politics is, as I said above, basically a form of tribal aesthetics. You are speaking like Trump supporters speak, using similar buzzwords and similar nodes of outrage, and as such, regardless of the content of what you are saying, those who are committed anti-Trump folks must oppose you first and foremost in form - the content of your speech is irrelevant.
That said, this doesn't make you the victim of leftist rabble-rousing here, because beyond simply speaking like a rightwinger, you've actually apparently taken the bait by indulging distinctly rightwing fantasies. BLM is not "racist", they are misguided. They diagnose actual problems (at least insofar as they discuss material elements of how the present system is racist) but employ idiotic tools like identity politics to address these problems. And so it is much more complicated than simple "reverse racism" or whatever.
Again, my focus on the particular problems that surround race focuses on material struggle. Offense and outrage are only relevant insofar as they are a gauge for material suffering - poverty, death, shortened life expectancy, physical injury, etc. Generally, the offense that the left takes is indicative of real material struggle. Women are raped more than men, enough to indicate that their material struggle is systemic. Blacks are more likely to be poor, not because of their own stupidity, but because in the five-hundred-year race for American wealth, they were chattel for the first 300 years, thus giving bourgeois anglo-whites a 300-year head start - it takes money to make money, and when you've been born with more, you'll make more. So while much of the outrage culture that the left has created is, I agree with you, idiotic, it is mostly rooted in actual material struggle. Thus, I reject their goals and means, but find more comraderie with them in the origins of their anger than those on the right.
Conversely, rightwing rage is generally not rooted in material struggle. Those on the right have, for the most part, nothing but manufactured grievances that serve the elite. They are mad about things like taxes (mad? don't pay them) immigrants stealing jobs and being criminals (jobs you don't want and crimes that are blown out of proportion to stoke race war as a means to break working-class solidarity), free speech "rights" (again, "rights" do not exist unless you take them by force - stop bitching and carry a gun) and similar grievances that revolve around rights. Whites were never lynched, men are seldom raped, and Nixon-style "squares" only get the shaft because they are dumb enough to continue participating in a system that doesn't work anymore. The appropriate response is to become self-sufficient, practice self-defense, be humble and generous, understand the root of your political antagonists rage, and stop giving bait to trolls, as well as stop offering yourself as cannon fodder for the state-corporate complex.

That said, there are legitimate non-material grievances of the right that are valid and are, to a large extent, why Trump is currently in power - because the left won't consider these grievances or adjust to them. This is mostly because, for all their altruistic care for the oppressed, they simply have a fear and loathing of poor whites. Most liberals, if they go enough generations back, have country roots their ancestors forsook for a city life, and as such, shudder to look back at what was formerly their own ignorance. They'd rather tell poor white people to shut the fuck up, move to the city, and start drinking lattes like they did. In reality, the libs don't want to look at the facts about the history of poor white America, nor do they want to speak the language of us poor white trash here and now. Most of us came here in the 17th and 18th centuries against our will, kicked out of Ireland and Scotland, and forcibly placed in "indentured servitude" which never really ended until we said "fuck this" and headed to Appalachia. At one point, we led multi-ethnic slave rebellions alongside blacks and indians, and lived together in rebel slave and runaway indentured servant communities, interbreeding and protecting one another. It was only later that the ruling class made an effort to sow the seeds of white supremacy among the rural poor in order to serve Federalism, and later the Union, over and against multi-ethnic working class resistance. Now, both tendencies - racism / conservatism and a fierce anti-establishment sentiment - exist alongside one another in poor whites as a walking contradiction. History is glazed over to make it seem as though these two tendencies are one in the same, when in fact, one was manufactured by the largely urban, largely northern liberal culture of the rich.

This history is too complex for our political Twitter culture and its short attention span, and as such, all sides glaze it over completely and act smug about idiotic half-truths. The left says to poor whites - shut up and be like us because you're racist, and that's all there is to the story, and the right sells them a cheap and half-assed picture of their own history as an attempt to fuel sentiments that will only further entrench them in the very exclusion and disenfranchisement they currently suffer.

The anarchist says, "fuck all of this", looks at the real history, listens to the voices of everyone skeptically and finds the kernel of truth that drives every loon in the pond to say what they are saying. They distinguish themselves from the horde, hone in on what disgusts them, and subvert and make war upon it. This process tends, again, toward the origins of leftist sympathies, but generally does not contain the means and the ends of the left. They get their means and ends from the right: subsistence, self-defense, and old-fashioned neighbors-helping-neighbors community.

All this is to say: Some of what you're saying is right, but you need to look deeper to begin to grapple with the sorts of things you're talking about. Look beyond BLM toward the Black Panthers, beyond complaining about taxes and welfare to tax resistance and local, community-based welfare systems, and beyond all the short-attention-span shenanigans of politics today toward real education and real discussion of the issues and their history.
 

Coywolf

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but aren't Leftist doing that very same thing when they say that a religious institution must marry gay couples

Yes, you are correct, and I think it is a terrible idea to force people to go against their religious beliefs, no matter how effed up they may be.

Isn't calling someone a Nazi or white-supremacist kind of hateful speech (when in fact they are not)?

Haha! No, because most Nazis and white supremacists will be the first one to admit they are one. I am not sure why anyone would call someone else a Nazi if they werent displaying Nazi-like behavior.

Also, have we not established that Milo Yiannopoulos is quite Nazi-like in his behavior?

The left is actually responsible for Trump becoming president for this very reason good job now we all have to deal with his dumb-ass.

Correction, DEMOCRATS are one of the main reasons Trump was elected (The DNC in particular) (Not leftists, no leftist wanted that guy in office) . Bernie Sanders should have won that primary.

But there are still a whole bunch of un-educated conservatives who voted for that asshole. In all reality, it is the Right's fault he is in office
 

Coywolf

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Conversely, rightwing rage is generally not rooted in material struggle. Those on the right have, for the most part, nothing but manufactured grievances that serve the elite. They are mad about things like taxes (mad? don't pay them) immigrants stealing jobs and being criminals (jobs you don't want and crimes that are blown out of proportion to stoke race war as a means to break working-class solidarity), free speech "rights" (again, "rights" do not exist unless you take them by force - stop bitching and carry a gun) and similar grievances that revolve around rights. Whites were never lynched, men are seldom raped, and Nixon-style "squares" only get the shaft because they are dumb enough to continue participating in a system that doesn't work anymore. The appropriate response is to become self-sufficient, practice self-defense, be humble and generous, understand the root of your political antagonists rage, and stop giving bait to trolls, as well as stop offering yourself as cannon fodder for the state-corporate complex.

A-F***ing-men

Damn @Hillbilly Castro that conversation got deep real quick, I appreciate your input on this conversation.
 
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I see the attack on free speech in the US coming from the left and true liberalism moving to the right...
Though both sides are guilty, I would think suppression of speech comes more from the already established conservative majority. I would imagine the push back we are seeing from the left is a counter movement.

There was a random quote from Dune, "that every movement sows the seeds to its own demise". I think what was meant is that we adopt the strategies of those we are fighting. By "using the masters tools to dismantle the masters house" I think it leaves a mark on us, and changes our character to resemble the very ideas we have been fighting all along. Its very much what Nietzsche must have meant when he said "when we stare into the abyss it stares back at us".

I remember reading a phycology study done a few years ago on a Neo - Nazi group. They concluded that the members see themselves as not instigating hate, but as a reaction to what they saw as "oppressive new norms".

I been hearing this a lot that the left is being oppressive. But considering all this that I said, the only thing that ever keeps popping in my mind is that one group, the left, is more compassionate then the right. I just think Western politics has had this problem of looking at people and the issues as robotic and technical. I don't think I ever heard of "love" being in any political theorists work since Rousseau waaaay back in the day.

I know it sounds dumb. But I just always go back to Augustine, that there are just some people who are gifted with the sight of some heavenly form and try to fly up to the heavens, while others see the "impracticality" of it and pull them down to the Earthly realm. This very much, I think, is that "double movement" I referred to in the beginning played out in a older language.

I know that's really abstract. I'm sorry.
 

Cracker

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Too tired to commit to a long post right now, just got a job assembling boats, been working 12 hr days past couple days, I'm beat. @Hillbilly Castro I think you thought I was calling BLM racist but I didn't say that actually, but some probably are, just like some white people are privileged. Fuck generalized statements that's what racism basically is right? I think you're right though about the talking points that I brought up, and Milo was not a good example. But really there are very few if any good examples in the media. Fuck hollywood fuck cnn fox news everybody. Library here I come and all you young generation people I suggest you do the same because the media, and technology and even the interent is gonna shape young peoples view of history, spirituality, politcs, the whole lot, and I think not for the better.
 

vannevar

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I'm not interested in trying to establish where anarchy falls on a rhetorical spectrum of "left" and "right." But to engage with your example: Milo is a nazi. Buzzfeed recently obtained a number of his private e-mails which demonstrate that he collaborates with white supremacists and considers hardcore neo-nazis supporters of his movement and his allies. I'd link you but I think since I just recently joined I can't post links yet? Just google it. He was banned from twitter for inciting his followers to harass Leslie Jones with a slew of racist messages, images, etc., which is in violation of their terms of service. Cable outlets don't want to give him a platform because he has given interviews seemingly endorsing pedophilia.

At his speeches he has released the personal information of undocumented and transgender persons, putting them at risk of being either attacked/trolled by his minions or by law enforcement. This, in combination with his facist politics, is the basis for the black bloc showing up at his speech, because what he is trying to create is a facist ethnostate through genocide. Giving him a platform is itself an attack on free speech, since his eventual goal is to deprive millions of their rights. One could argue against his innate right to free speech in order organize white supremacists under the idea of the harm principle of classic liberal thought, but I don't want to get into an abstract philosophical discussion here.

When you say that "most of the violence and intolerance is coming from the left," and targeted at "people they don't agree with," that is a serious understatement. Specifically they seem to be targeting nazis, white supremacists, and facists. Someone whose entire political project is to kill you and millions more people is not someone that you simply have a minor disagreement with. This also inherently necessitates the practice of identity politics, as they would not be needed were there not the historical and present existence of persistent structural discrimination in the United States. Hopefully this can give you some additional perspective.

milo...is a whore. And a monkey, just like the rest of his ilk: the pundits, kardashians, ann coulters, perez hiltons, and alex joneses. opinions mean nothing. Value systems and beliefs mean nothing. Ethics can only be expressed through action, and without action ethics are meaningless.
 

vannevar

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Thank you for your reply.


Thank you for your response. I do not agree obviously but I appreciate you.

I don't think Milo's black husband thinks he is a nazi and buzzfeed is an obviously biased outlet. Not saying I agree with Milo. The same people call Ben Shapiro (an orthodox jew) a nazi as well. it seems like it's the go to insult when one does not agree. The funny thing is that CNN has interviewed Mugabe (who committed mass genocide btw) and also al-Assad but Milo is too much. It just rubs me the wrong way when people throw the "white-supremacist" label on those who don't agree with them and that's exactly what I mean by the "attack on free speech". It's not right, just because someone is not as progressive as someone else doesn't make them a nazi. I'm not siding with the left or the right, I'm siding with free speech.

Anyway a cool side note on something I found online: https://news.bitcoin.com/crypto-anarchist-cody-wilson-launches-3d-printed-m1911-handgun-software/

think in terms of obscenity. One SCOTUS geezer said of obscenity “ i know it when i see it”.... Fascism and race politics are similar in that everyones tastes vary: to some tribalism is an elixir, to others (usually the capital O Others,) its obscenity. So can anyone provide an objective critique of the Us/them tribalistic paradigm? Its not going away anytime soon until its edited out of the gene pool. PS If you root for a sports team...any sports team...dont comment.
 

DreaderDread

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Anarchism isn't on the left or right spectrum. Simply don't want to live under any type of organization. Whatever ideologies ONE has doesn't affect the definition of Anarchy which is definitely not an organization but a way to live your life.
 

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