Winter, Covid and the Flu. A third wave is coming.

[NewMexicoJim]

I have no fondness for being a downer but this shit is real and getting more serious by the day. Covid cases are up across the US and are hitting rural areas hard now too. Winter will drive people indoors and Covid fatigue will cause many to relax preventative measures. Cases this week over last represent a 16% increase in the USA alone. Europe is no better. Now we have the flu coming on top of Covid. Please keep wearing a mask, social distance, wash hands/use sanitizer and get a flu shot. They are free at most pharmacies across the USA and may help ward off the worst effects of Covid. If you have illnesses such as asthma, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, copd among others, you are at much greater risk of dying from Covid.

Homeless shelters will be subject to higher infection rates. Gyms and restaurants will continue to face closures as will libraries and other traditional places of refuge. If you can, go south to the desert where you can remain outside and gather together in relative safety. Get housed for the winter if you can. Form a protective pod of people who commit to keeping each other safe. People need each other. Practice kindness but do not put yourself in danger. Hopefully it shouldn't have to be said that random sex should be avoided. This disease is insidious. You may have it and not know and pass it to someone who will die from it. Think.

There will be no going back to the previous normal. This is going to last a long time, and all the consequences to society have yet to be felt. Good luck. Be safe. You are loved.

 

[NewtonRed]

This is not true as I find hype in this post considering all I see is mass hysteria . The third wave will be govt control is all and martial law .

 

[NewMexicoJim]

We are approaching one quarter million dead humans in the USA alone. Scoff at your own peril. Please don't come knocking at my door with that outlook. Be safe. You are loved.

 

[NewMexicoJim]

I have no fondness for being a downer ....

While you wrestle with your belief system, I will trust the science. Facts:

Amid pandemic, U.S. has seen 300,000 ‘excess deaths,’ with highest rates among people of color

‘At a breaking point’: New surge of Covid-19 cases has states, hospitals scrambling

CDC COVID Data Tracker Maps, charts, and data provided by the CDC

US leads 19 nations in COVID-19, all-cause death rates

5 Little Ways to Protect Yourself During the 2020 Cold and Flu Season

 

[Jimmy Beans]

This is not true as I find hype in this post considering all I see is mass hysteria . The third wave will be govt control is all and martial law .

It isn't just hype and mass hysteria. People are dying. I personally know someone who's died from this, she wasn't even 40 years old. On a less personal level I have a friend who just lost a coworker to this, she was around my age.

I don't trust the government either and I definitely wouldn't be surprised if they used this to their advantage. Things definitely smell fishy but the fact still remains, this is a real thing. Is it really that hard to just take a couple extra precautions?

Mask up, wash your hands and do your best to social distance. That's so fucking easy. Personally I like wearing masks. I like knowing my hands are clean because I eat with them. And I like people staying out of my bubble.

 

[NewMexicoJim]

It isn't just hype and mass hysteria. People are dying. I personally know someone who's died from this, she wasn't even 40 years old. On a less personal level I have a friend who just lost a coworker to this, she was around my age.

I don't trust the government either and I definitely wouldn't be surprised if they used this to their advantage. Things definitely smell fishy but the fact still remains, this is a real thing. Is it really that hard to just take a couple extra precautions?

Mask up, wash your hands and do your best to social distance. That's so fucking easy. Personally I like wearing masks. I like knowing my hands are clean because I eat with them. And I like people staying out of my bubble.

Well said man. All we can do is spread the word and hope folks tall it seriously.

 

[iamwhatiam]

Been building up my "medicine cabinet" for flu season.
Nettle leaf, Echinacea flower/leaf/root, Mallow, Prunella v. (Heal All), Raspberry leaf, Fireweed, Elderberry, Chaga, Goatsbeard (Aruncus dioicus) root.

 

[Jimmy Beans]

Where's the doja?

 

[NewMexicoJim]

Vaccines work. They are why you haven't died of smallpox, polio, mumps, whooping cough, measles, and the flu (if you get the shot). Trust the science. Get the shot.

 

[iamwhatiam]

Where's the doja?

oh that is well stocked too of course

 

[obey no one]

there is no reason to freak out about covid unless you are in an at risk group. the science on what measures should be taken, and what is effective is still being debated. there is no hard science that wearing a mask is all that effective, especially if it is not medical grade & disposable. wearing a cloth mask that you reuse may actually be worse, especially if you have touch it often.

you provide no links or sources for your claims. the covid deaths & infection numbers are not all that accurate, and vary considerably because of different methods being used in different locations, and at best they are mostly estimates. just because a person had covid and died, does not mean they died of covid, especially if they had other health issues. instead of looking at the number of estimated dead, we should be looking at years of life saved / lost.

some people are going to die every year for all kinds of reasons. does taking a certain action have a benifit, and if it does what is the cost, or unintended consequences of that action.

the panic and shutdowns have a very real cost, and very real negative consequences for alot of people. the benefit is very hard to measure.

we would save alot of lives if everyone was required to only drive 20mph. would that restriction make sense? hitch hiking is potentially dangerous, so lets make that illegal and through anyone who participates in that action in jail. think of all the lives we would save. why not make everyone where protective helmets and pads all the time. think of all the injuries that would be prevented. why not just live our entire lives in safe padded room where nothing bad could ever happen.

i'm not telling you not to wear a mask, if you want to do it, i really don't care. but dont tell me what to do, i am a thinking adult, and i can decide for myself what risks require what actions and precautions. if you wanna freak out and isolate yourself go for it.

life is a risk, we are all gonna die. this risk is minor for most people. i'm not gonna worry about it.

 

[Coywolf]

there is no reason to freak out about covid unless you are in an at risk group. the science on what measures should be taken, and what is effective is still being debated. there is no hard science that wearing a mask is all that effective, especially if it is not medical grade & disposable. wearing a cloth mask that you reuse may actually be worse, especially if you have touch it often.

you provide no links or sources for your claims. the covid deaths & infection numbers are not all that accurate, and vary considerably because of different methods being used in different locations, and at best they are mostly estimates. just because a person had covid and died, does not mean they died of covid, especially if they had other health issues. instead of looking at the number of estimated dead, we should be looking at years of life saved / lost.

some people are going to die every year for all kinds of reasons. does taking a certain action have a benifit, and if it does what is the cost, or unintended consequences of that action.

the panic and shutdowns have a very real cost, and very real negative consequences for alot of people. the benefit is very hard to measure.

we would save alot of lives if everyone was required to only drive 20mph. would that restriction make sense? hitch hiking is potentially dangerous, so lets make that illegal and through anyone who participates in that action in jail. think of all the lives we would save. why not make everyone where protective helmets and pads all the time. think of all the injuries that would be prevented. why not just live our entire lives in safe padded room where nothing bad could ever happen.

i'm not telling you not to wear a mask, if you want to do it, i really don't care. but dont tell me what to do, i am a thinking adult, and i can decide for myself what risks require what actions and precautions. if you wanna freak out and isolate yourself go for it.

life is a risk, we are all gonna die. this risk is minor for most people. i'm not gonna worry about it.

So, fuck everyone else, you gonna do what you gonna do?

The reason this bullshit rhetoric pisses me off so much is this:

My Mom fucking died this year because there was not enough specialty care to treat her. The doctors were all providing for COVID19 patients that were overfilling ICU's all over the state.

I was in the hospital. Two of them. I saw it. I listened as people were gasping for air and being intubated. I watched the EMTs roll people out of the ICU with blankets over them. I have friends who are nurses tell me their stories.

Your conspiracy bullshit will get people killed.

It isint about YOUR freedom. Its selfish whataboutism, and it has no place if you wish to be anywhere near other people.

I'm so done with this. You want this to end? Wear a god damn mask, socially distance, and listen to medical professionals.

If you think that we would tank the global economy for a conspiracy theory, you obvious have no schooling in global economics.

My question is this:

What's the end goal? What would the conspiracy accomplish? I'll wait.

I swear people with this mentality would say the same shit about an Ebola epidemic or the freakin' T-virus.

 

[NewMexicoJim]

I literally posted 5 links to data too. lol. What's the old saying? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Stupidity, another good reason for social distancing...

 

[Jimmy Beans]

You can put a man through school but you cannot make him think.

 

[obey no one]

my mistake i didn't realize they were links. but what you linked to were news stories, not scientific studies on the effectiveness of wearing masks. a few studies have been done, not specific to this disease but to transmission of airborne disease and mask wearing. and what they showed is that medical grade masks might offer some protection. but puting a regualar peice of cloth over your face that you reuse are not effective, and may even be detrimental.

if this is a highly contagious disease like the cold or the flu or a cold then we are all going to get it, if we haven't already. there is nothing anyone can do about it short of leaving society. panicing over it and shutting down the country is not gonna stop it. and it has not stopped it. wearing masks has not stopped the spread of the disease., social distancing has not stopped the spread. nothing will.

i understand your emotional reaction if your mom died from it. you responding from emotion not reason.

some people need to work to eat, shutting down the economy and driving the poorest among us into poverty or into the streets is not gonna help anyone.

i never said anything about a conspiracy, just mass panic over an uncontrollable relatively minor new disease. i worked at a place were 4 or 5 people tested positive. i do not know specifically who they were but we where notified. no one died. i was almost certainly exposed to it. i'm not really worried about it.

if you are in a finacial position where you can just not work for 6 months then you are lucky.

i disagree with you, and you getting mad about it is not gonna change my mind. and it is probably not gonna change annyone elses mind either.

 

[ali]

I don't think it's very constructive to ask other people to provide scientific studies for their claims when you are not providing them for yours. The bottom line is that every major health organization in the world, from WHO to the CDC, recommends social distancing and wearing a mask. This isn't some wacky brand new science, this is the exact same mechanisms for avoiding the spread of any contagious disease that is transmitted on the same vectors as COVID-19.

You are correct that a plain cotton mask helps less than a surgical mask in preventing sick people from spreading the virus to others. However it still protects more than if they had worn no face covering at all. Please note that the whole point of mask regulations are to prevent sick people from infecting healthy people. If you are healthy and wearing a mask, then it does little to protect you. But the point is, you might be infectious and not know it, so wearing a mask is just the right thing to do when you are around other people, especially people who may be at higher risk of complications than you.

It is not the case that there is nothing anyone can do about this virus. We have hard evidence of several countries around the world successfully controlling the spread. We know how to control this virus. It's only spreading out of control in the places where public health measures were not sufficient to contain it, or (seen another way) where a critical mass of people chose not to take appropriate measures.

I understand that the economic impact is hard. Everyone knows the economic impact is hard. It's affecting literally everyone - even people in those countries that have successfully stamped it out, since they're not getting tourist traffic. This sucks for everyone. And it especially sucks for the poor. You know what the solution is? Tell your government to have those people who are in the financial position to not work for 6 months to cough up their share so that the poor can also survive! Calling for the poor to go back to work while the rich continue sitting on their yachts or teleconferencing with their white collar colleagues is not really a noble fight.

 

[Jimmy Beans]

The reason why wearing masks hasn't stopped it. The reason why shutting down the country hasn't stopped it. The reason why social distancing hasn't stopped it. The reason is because we have so many selfish assholes pushing back. People aren't all wearing masks, people aren't all social distancing. A lot of people are half wearing the masks, nose exposed.

Of course these measures aren't working. All the mask deniers and Karens pushing back, cancels out the efforts of those trying to do his right. Like are you even thinking about what you're saying?

Imagine we have ten guys. 6 of them are wearing condoms, 4 are raw dogging it. Someone catches an STD and you're sitting there saying "see, condoms aren't effective! They don't work!"

Duh, if they're not being worn of course they don't work. Just like masks. Just like social distancing. But whatever, go on and keep killing grandparents. You sleep with that, not me. And medical professionals have been using and trusting masks for the last century. It's amazing that all those doctors and nurses were able to breathe through masks perfectly fine but now that Karen is forced to wear one she has a medical exemption because she can't breathe. Bull fucking shit.

Quit spreading misinformation.

 

[Matt Derrick]

@obey no one, it looks like others have already covered what I was going to say for the most part, im just going to point out that you're so woefully, shamefully wrong in this scenario it's actually kind of embarrassing to read. That you can continue to deny the facts under such an enormous pile of scientifically proven evidence really shows a special kind of ignorance. It borders both on dangerous, stupid, and sad all at the same time. This kind of thinking is why we're so fucked in this country. So, I leave you with this:

 

[obey no one]

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/covid-19-face-mask-advice-explained/bull

bullshit, if your policy recomondaions are recomended by sciience then show me the study. i believe in the scientific method. show me the study. i have no problem with admiting that i am wrong and that i fucked up prove me wrong

https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

in the end we can all post links supporting our views, but show me hard science that supports present policies. this is a new event there is very little hard science about it.

do not think that stopping economic activity does not have problems. crime & violence are a direct result of having no other options. people will do what they have to do to survivie.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...ar#1.-Masks-offer-no-protection-to-the-wearer

my point has not changed the value of presoent policy is still being scientifically debated. there is no hard science one way or the other.

panic helps no one. and shuting down the economy has consequences and cost to workers and the poor. who do you think are most hurt by an economic downturn. who do you think is most hurt by shuting everything down. it is not the rich, or people in the government, those people get paid no matter what happens. the rest of us are left to fend for ourselves.

i respect your right to disagree with me. but if you believe in consent, and not force. then you have to convice me that i am wrong, and find a way that we can work togenther. or you can just be authoritarian and try to use force to make me comply.

 

[ali]

Literally none of the links you posted are peer-reviewed scientific studies.

Here are just a handful of actual scientific papers that I could find in a 5 minute web search. Full disclosure: I am not an epidemiologist, or a medical doctor, so I cannot comment on the quality of the studies. It's important to remember that you cannot take the results of all scientific papers as gospel, because they all require peer review, and the findings remain provisionary until they are confirmed by ongoing studies. Which... is exactly the scientific method.

- Association Between Universal Masking in a Health Care System and SARS-CoV-2 Positivity Among Health Care Workers | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network
- Absence of Apparent Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from Two Stylists After Exposure at a Hair Salon with a Universal Face Covering Policy — Springfield, Missouri, May 2020 | MMWR (cdc.gov)
- Community Use Of Face Masks And COVID-19: Evidence From A Natural Experiment Of State Mandates In The US | Health Affairs
- (PDF) Association of country-wide coronavirus mortality with demographics, testing, lockdowns, and public wearing of masks (Update June 15, 2020). (researchgate.net)
- Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks | Nature Medicine
- Visualizing Speech-Generated Oral Fluid Droplets with Laser Light Scattering | NEJM

There are dozens more. Like I said earlier, this is not some kind of brand new wacky medicine. This is literally how healthcare workers have been protecting their patients and one another for a century or more. There is nothing controversial about the following statement: if a person is infected with a virus that is transmitted via droplets (or aerosol), then wearing any kind of face covering will reduce the incidence of transmission.

Since it seems you did not read my last comment, let me reiterate: a mask does not protect the mask-wearer. The whole point of a mask is to protect other people from a virus that the mask-wearer may be carrying. Since COVID-19 does not always exhibit symptoms, it is the responsible thing to do for everyone to mask up just in case they have the virus and don't realize it. Of course, if you know for sure that you have the virus, then you should just stay home for the 1-2 weeks it takes for most people to recover from it and avoid putting everyone around you at risk.

In countries that succeeded in stamping out this virus, there are additional checks - not just swab testing, but simple temperature checks so that people who are showing fever symptoms can be immediately isolated. Fever is a strong indicator of this virus in people who otherwise may not show symptoms that require them to be hospitalized.

If you don't consent to wear a mask, or have your temperature checked, or isolate when you have been confirmed to have been exposed, or whatever, then I suppose you can feel happy that you're an anarchist free spirit. Just know that people who are acting this way are exactly the reason why an entirely controllable coronavirus outbreak turned into a worldwide pandemic.

Listen, I was in China when this virus broke out. I went through REAL fucking authoritarianism in response to the virus. You think America right now is authoritarian?! Don't make me laugh. I came out of lockdown in China - a lockdown where the police literally erected fences around my neighborhood, went door-to-door doing tests and set up checkpoints on every street - and the first thing I did when I got out was get a tattoo saying "give me liberty or give me death" because fuck the police. I am the furthest thing from an authoritarian and I would never wish the kind of restrictions on movement that the CCP did to their people on anyone in any country. But you also got to think about the society you want to live in. Do you really want to be the person who is causing the panic in folks who are vulnerable, just because you didn't want to put a mask on for a few hours each day? Is it really that big of deal?