White Privilege

[Matt Derrick]

Yet based on ratios of black/white nonviolent and violent crimes one would predict 26% more blacks shot by cops. Obviously these statistics will vary depending on local demographics, but I still do not see this argument of widespread indiscriminately shooting or beating blacks. The facts do not support it.

if you look closely your own facts refute your own statement. in your scenario 26% more blacks are shot by cops because black people live in more heavily patrolled areas where crime is more likely to occur, so that statistic does in fact support widespread shootings of black people.

You're all shitheaded hypocrites.

just a reminder that you need to cool it on the accusations, it's against the forum rules. you're perfectly capable to conveying your point without name calling.

 

[Mankini]

Still waiting for male privilege thread. White privelege exists in most aspects that matter and in countless ways most people take for granted or don't even recognize. There is so much denial and pushback over this topic and I think much of it is for good reason. White men understand the hateful bitter attitude many people have towards them and can often be pushed to the extremes of fully opposing these social justice movements or becoming a self hating black apologist.

Statistically there just aren't the facts to support some kind of full scale black genocide as some are suggesting here. Look for yourself:
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

Twice as many whites are killed by cops. Yet based on ratios of black/white nonviolent and violent crimes one would predict 26% more blacks shot by cops. Obviously these statistics will vary depending on local demographics, but I still do not see this argument of widespread indiscriminately shooting or beating blacks. The facts do not support it. The argument of laws and enforcement tactics and poverty and the legal system churning out criminals is there but that isn't a debate most simple minded people want to take up.

I've had 2 teenage kids pull a gun and rob me. When I told people about several separate folks about this they didn't seem bothered or surprised at all. I've had a group of guys circle me and grab for my pockets right around the corner up the hill from the shelter in Austin. Had a guy try to carjack me for some pills they thought I had when I was disabled. All were black men and in more than one instance I was told directly I was being targeted because I was white or in wrong area. This kind of crime doesn't widely happen in white neighborhoods or in most suburbs, fact. And that is one reason poor black communities are targeted.

Sure people can argue these crimes are a result of poverty or an unjust criminal system but as I said people rarely seem to want that discussion. Oh no! cause it doesn't make them feel good and it's not stupid easy like hating white people, and lamenting "white cis male privelege", and assuming cops are out there hunting down black people. It's so juvenile.

This topic requires intelligent discussion but many people are too dense, ignorant, misguided, or caught up in their own anger to look at facts and make rational conclusions. And that's another reason people want to dial this BLM dialogue back down, ignore or deny things. Because the irrational anger it causes in many instances is likely to only make race relations worse. Anger and action and discussion is only useful when it is purposefully and rightly directed otherwise it's just a self righteous, ignorant tantrum.

race relations -need- to get worse before they can get better. And they are\will. it doesnt matter if you, I, and everyone -we- know is enlightened about race. The fact is millions of Americans are perfectly happy to allow indecency to continue because it's no business of theirs.

Those in power must be forcefully relieved of power. They will never willingly surrender it.

 

[sasquatch]

There is widespread shooting of black people, but not more relative to whites based on crime statistics. I misquoted the 26% more, something I didn't intend to do here are the statistics direct from the article with the misquote underlined:

"1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to Mac Donald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as Mac Donald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods.""

One of my points is that relative to crime statistics black people are not being shot more than whites.

People will quote things like this:

"African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population"

BUT it doesn't take into account crime statistics. it's being loose with the facts. Consider this again:

"Blacks commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population."

So if again if you take into consideration crime statistics there is a much different picture.

That was only one small part of a larger statement I was making though. It is possibly ignoring larger issues or root cause.

 

[Mankini]

There is widespread shooting of black people, but not more relative to whites based on crime statistics. I misquoted the 26% more, something I didn't intend to do here are the statistics direct from the article:

"1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to Mac Donald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as Mac Donald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods.""

One of my points is that relative to crime statistics black people are not being shot more than whites.

People will quote things like this:

"African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population"

BUT it doesn't take into account crime statistics. it's being funny with the facts. Consider this again:

"Blacks commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population."

This is all just sad, sad, sad. That we should have to discuss this bullshit at all reminds me of how silly people are.
Sasquatch read Guns Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond.
It hasnt always been white people, though. This is not a white/black conundrum: its a human one.

Europeans invaded and enslaved much of the planet.

But.....

The Mongols invaded much of the world. So did the Assyrians, Romans, Lakotas, Aztecs, Mayas, Byzantines, Greeks, Persians, Moors, and Polynesians.



When empire occurs, people get displaced and stratified. People get enslaved and treated like shit.

Race is a stupid issue- it shouldnt be an issue.

Why are there high crime and low crime parts of the US?

Why are there poverty areas?

Wm Blake said some are born for sweet delight...
and some are born for the endless night.

heheh.

What do you think? Both Whites and Blacks worship Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln wanted to ship all slaves to Liberia. He, if you read his speeches and letters, felt rather indisposed towards Blacks.

Most people feel no moral requisite towards other people whatsoever. However, soon all of us are going to be under the gun and skin color will be the least of your worries.

"First, they came for the trade unionists. And i wasnt a trade unionist, so i didnt say anything..."

 

[sasquatch]

Haven't read the book but I watched the series that features Jared Diamond years ago and thought it was really good. That's a great point to make too if whites never had access to agriculture, and the resources to make steel and domesticate animals and roles were reversed people would instead be moaning about asain privelege etc.

A caste system isn't unlike racism. People are born into a class of workers, merchants nobles, untouchables etc and stuck there for their entire lives regardless of merit. And skin color has nothing to do with it. Yet people still find a way to enforce social stratification where differences in race and culture don't even exist.

People in power will always find a way to take advantage and beat down the powerless and then find some way to justify it. Whatever system is built around that people will reflect it. Racism is only one of many symptoms of a larger system of oppression and unequal share of resources.

Guns germs & steel:

 

[Mankini]

Yes, caste is what its all about. There are lots of gypsies (roma) in europe who definitely feel put upon. Even though many Europeans flick shit at us for our race problems. Say Gypsy or Pikey in Paris or London and watch your enlightened friends smirk for a second and then return to being sanctimonious.

We can discuss this all we like but racism lies in the human heart and it is the human heart that must purge itself. South Africa is a perfect example of what, essentially, we are dealing with. Except there it was simply overt and unapologized...

Cruelty has a Human Heart
And Jealousy a Human Face
Terror the Human Form Divine
And Secrecy, the Human Dress
The Human Dress, is forged Iron
The Human Form, a fiery Forge.
The Human Face, a Furnace seal'd
The Human Heart, its hungry Gorge.