Travelling with a 'problem' dog / advice on training

[Matt Derrick]

i'm going to politely ask the two of you to end your debate here and let some others chime in. ya'll are getting a little heated.

 

[Deleted member 2626]

Yes please damn people, its the internet. And as much as you may think you know its still an animal and one you are not.

 

[Shakou]

its still an animal and one you are not.

Exactly. We're not dogs. And training them like we are is stupid. I don't know everything about dogs, but I DO know that.

Stepping out now

 

[Deleted member 2626]

I totally agree on the assumption most people have no idea how to well maintain or develop a dog. Example, people that have their dog in a house all day to come home given a sligg acknowledgement then let them out for less than five minutes just to release two orifices and run them back inside. Main ingredient for a mildly behaving dog, time spent and getting to really know the animal face to face.

 

[johnnymarie]

so, i stopped reading the comments a long time ago, when someone said dominance is outdated and etc. whatever.
i am not interested whatsoever in debating this. i just do not care.
to the OP, i had a dog exactly like yours. what i did, was tried the whole "don't dominate be nice show some love see what i get" thing. didn't work.
after i got over myself enough to school the fuck out of him, that's what i did. the difference was night and day. you (GENTLY) swoop her feet from under her, pin her on her back, put your entire body over hers, don't let her move, look her right in her eyes and say NO. hold her there until she stops trying to get away, and submits to your authority. if you do it in the right moment, it will be insane the amount of difference this makes. i only had to do this once, but i've done it a couple more times thru the years, just to remind him that godDAMNIT you're gonna listen. my dog is literally, LITERALLY the happiest animal i've ever met, but he also knows that if he doesn't listen to me and tries fuckin with other dogs, he's gonna get his ass embarrassed in front of all of them when his mommy puts him on his back and makes him submit.
dogs NEED dominance. anyone who says otherwise, well, i don't even know.. i won't get into this. all i'll say, is that if YOU are not in control, if YOU are not the alpha, your dog is confused as fuck. dogs are pack animals. there is only one leader of every pack. it's either you or him. if your dog has nobody to be their alpha, they are really frustrated animals and think they have to lead by example. dogs need to be dominated. point blank period.

 

[Kadidlehopper]

you (GENTLY) swoop her feet from under her, pin her on her back, put your entire body over hers, don't let her move, look her right in her eyes and say NO. hold her there until she stops trying to get away, and submits to your authority. if you do it in the right moment, it will be insane the amount of difference this makes.

thank you, this is exactly what i was trying to say, you dont have to be a dick about it and hipcheck them on the ground, its more the symbolic nature of the move then the actual force behind it. your putting the dog in a position where its freaking out for whatever reason, and your telling him its not alright, youre ok, and youre in charge, if anything the dog feels threatened and is trying to protect you, which would explain why he stops after a while when he realizes there is no actual threat.

the dog fuckin loves ya too much man, you just gota let him know youre ok.

 

[johnnymarie]

yeah, definitely don't *hurt* her, just let her know that everything is okay and you are in control. dogs need that. they need to know they have someone they can trust. they want to please you, they just don't know how to unless they know they are in submission to you. or, maybe that was a poor choice of words, i dunno. it's all about communication and exchange between you and your dog.

i can't even count the number of times my dog noticed something weird at the same time i did, be it a fight across the street or a homebum who's getting too close or a wolf in the woods scoutin out our camp, and before he will act on it or run towards whatever, he looks up at me like "mom what is that what's going on are we okay do i need to bite someone or are we gonna walk away". dogs look to their alpha for leadership, or at least that's what my dog does. ever since the first time i ever put him in check, we read each others' body language enough to know how to act in unison when shit goes down.

 

[Kadidlehopper]

people have tendency to think theyre the absolute boss of their dogs and they should do everything you say, theyre your buddy, your friend, your brother/ sister and if anything your kid! you wouldnt act like a cruel dictator to your kid unless your a fucking asswipe, guide your dog through life with kindness, control, and consistency and youll have a good turnout everytime.

 

[Shakou]

I totally agree on the assumption most people have no idea how to well maintain or develop a dog. Example, people that have their dog in a house all day to come home given a sligg acknowledgement then let them out for less than five minutes just to release two orifices and run them back inside. Main ingredient for a mildly behaving dog, time spent and getting to really know the animal face to face.

Spending time with your dog one on one and coming to understand just what's causing them to do the things they do (because leash reactivity can be caused by many different reasons, although it's essentially anxiety based) is always a good first step, and will make work with a trainer go a lot quicker if you know the emotional source . Exercise and mental stimulation is ALWAYS a great help, but not a fix to the problem. Now that I'm on a computer, and not my phone, I'm going to post some links that will be of good use here at the bottom.

OP, when Ma'ii and I went to a professional trainer, this is what we did to help curve his re-activity. The exercise is called de-sensitizing and it worked wonders, far better than the "submissive pinning" and alpha dominance bullshit that I've seen ruin so many dogs. The idea of de-sensitizing is to help your dog not be so bothered by the presence of strange dogs, and to focus on you. If your dog doesn't like other dogs, it won't help there. Some dogs just don't like other dogs, just like some people don't like people. Nothing can train that to happen. But you're dog won't feel the need to flip out and react.

First, I brought some treats with me to the training session. When Ma'ii get's into that tunnel vision, it's hard to pull him out of it, and he would ignore everything we shoved under his nose. So I started bringing pieces of slim jims. No dog can resist those fucking things, and it leaves a good after taste in their mouth that they remember. First class took place in a training facility.

I would put him in a heel and we would walk towards dogs that were brought into the room. We would get as close as we could, until he started barking and going nuts. This is called his "thresh hold". As soon as he did so, we'd immediately turn and walk away until he calmed down. The second he calmed down, I'd have him sit, say "YES" and give him a treat and tons of praise. Than we'd try it again, and see how close we could get to his thresh hold. The second time, we were able to get a little closer, and once he reached his thresh hold, we'd repeat the process all over again.

Soon, we started doing this outside in public with the trainer. Dog parks are great for this. We'd never go into the park, but would walk towards the fence and see how close we could get before he started acting up, than turn and do what we did in class. We'd walk back and fourth, around the circumference of the field, etc. All those dogs in motion were GREAT for this!

We still work with our trainer, but do a lot of his re-activity training ourselves now while walking him. He still strains a bit at the leash, but very rarely do we have to turn and walk the other way due to his barking, and a lot of the time he looks back at me when dogs approach as if to ask "I'm doing this right, right? You gonna give me some of that good shit?"

Dogs do follow confidence and leadership, but it's not the same as dominance. You want to be something your dog can look to for leadership, but it should be a relationship that's built on mutual respect, NOT intimidation. You're dog should WANT to please you because YOU are better than anything else. Not because you're manipulating them with fear.

One last thing on the whole "dogs are pack animals and there is only one pack leader". They're not pack animals, actually. They're social animals, meaning they'll chill with other dogs and even work together to accomplish a task, but they don't live together the way wolves do. I guarantee you, if people died off tomorrow, and dogs were left to their own devices, even dogs that lived together as pets would separate and go off on their own. They might meet up and hang out, but they wouldn't LIVE together. If you go to areas with feral dog populations and sit and REALLY observe, you'll see it. It's COMPLETELY different from how it is with wolves. The alpha bullshit thing is associated with wolves, which is what is believed dogs descended from. Wolf packs are made up of a family unit. A mother and father wolf (the "alphas") and their off spring (the pack) which stick around until they themselves are of breeding age and than take off to find a mate. That's it. That's your fucking pack and hierarchy. Parents bitching at their pups to stop fucking around and being annoying.

A lot of it is very similar shit to how people work, which is one of the reasons why dogs and people have had such a successful relationship and been able to live together for thousands of years. Our social aspect is very similar. But we're still a different species, and don't teach right from wrong the same way.

Unfortunately a lot of people still believe in alpha theory in dogs, and are going to try and tell you training your dog any other way is wrong. The thing is, these people are generally (always) extremely ignorant and seriously out of the loop, going of a very old, outdated myth that they remember their parents using on their childhood dogs growing up back in the 1980's and 90's. I think a lot of them mean well, and do care about their dogs, but are just ignorant. A little genuine research and reading up on recent studies will reveal a LOT. But I understand that takes effort, so I'm sure they'll continue to remain ignorant. Kind of like people that still believe the world is flat. Silly.

Here's some links:

On leash reactivity:

http://positively.com/2013/06/18/choice-training-working-with-a-leash-reactive-dog/

http://www.whenhoundsfly.com/on-leash-aggression-towards-dogs/

http://www.spiritdog.com/sanesolutions.htm

Good sites and forums for training advice:

www.dogforums.com

http://www.chazhound.com/forums/index.php

Beyond Ceasar Millan on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/20444826822/

Let's Talk Paws-itive Training on facebook (run by a long time personal friend of mine who is a professional dog trainer)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/514868735245280/



Info on "pack" and "dominance" with dogs (very important for dog training):

http://www.caninemind.co.uk/pack.html

http://www.greatshakesdogtraining.com/are-dogs-really-pack-animals/

http://www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/dominance.aspx


Books:

DOGS by Lorna and Ray Coppinger.

An AWESOME book written by a biologist that conducted a study on the taxonomy of dogs and their evolution. Lots of great info on their psychology and how they work.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0684855305/

There's sooooo much more out there that can be said, but this post is already a lot longer than I intended. These are all a start!

ETA: Just wanted to add before anyone says other wise, I'm not debating anything here. I lost interest in that back on page 1. Believe me, if I was debating this post would be 3 times longer than what it is, with about 20 more links to back up my case. At this point I only care to help the OP.

 

[MFB]

I love how dogs can get tempers flared higher than religion or politics ever could!

Noone seemed to mention this; All dogs are different with a different personality, and each will respond to training and it's techniques differently. Regardless of studies and research it's a subjective matter, a false science. There's no 1 equation; the only universal variables are first and foremost appropriate amount of exercise and secondly an owner spending the time to deal w/ any issues a dog may have, ie. it took me at least an hour a day for 3 months to get my pooj to not freak out over the sound of a skateboard, but eventually she got it.

 

[Deleted member 2626]

I actually said exactly that a few times