Travelling with a 'problem' dog / advice on training

[Stinkyyy]

Okkk so about a month and a half back I rescued a sweet little staffie cross of aout 18 months from some dickbags who were gonna chuck her under a train. At most times, she's cuddly, friendly and though we've not been together long is getting more and more obedient by the day, coming when I call her, not tugging at the leash, sit, wait blah blah blah.

My only issue is her reactivity with other dogs. On the leash, every dog she sees sends her into a barking, pulling, mental frenzy and if that other dogs actually gets close she starts snarling and will definitely bite. Off the leash, she's not at all vicious, but again if she sees another dog she just goes total tunnel vision and legs it as fast as she can to the other animal, no matter how much I try to get her to stop, listen or come back even if it means 'yeah lets fucking run across three lanes of traffic to play'.

I guess im lucky that off leash she doesn't bite, but it's still too much with her not fucking listening or coming back as soon as she sees another dog.

She's also pretty anxious and just doesn't really chill out when we're stationary unless she's allowed to sit in my lap but to me this is totally less of a problem.

Does anyone else travel with a pooch with similar behavioral problems? (especially if you have to hang onto a leash all damn day) How is that going for you? I've found I can't sleep rough any more for worry she's just gonna disappear and i'm not open to tying her up while I sleep because she's my fucking friend and thats not cool.

Got any advice on how to train her outta this? When she's going for it on or off lead no amount of shouting, standing in front, waving arms whatever can make her stop and I don't really wanna have to smack her butt or anything (not that I think she'd pay attention anyways)

Blah blah blah help me

 

[Deleted member 2626]

Well avoid most dogs as much as possible and I might add using some force with a dog is alrite. I don't mean beating but the ole newspaper over the snout or whatever done is if he doesn't listen I say sit and have him sit and kneel in front and try to get his attention and say no.

 

[Deleted member 2626]

Try to be one on one with the dog I treat then like I do people to a point. .. All dogs are different

 

[Stinkyyy]

Well avoid most dogs as much as possible and I might add using some force with a dog is alrite. I don't mean beating but the ole newspaper over the snout or whatever done is if he doesn't listen I say sit and have him sit and kneel in front and try to get his attention and say no.

Aye, i've tried giving her a (light) smack over the snout but even then she pays no attention. It's like there's no way of even getting through to her at all when she's going crazy.

I keep my eyes out for other dogs as much as possible, but it would be preferable if I could train her out of this behavior since I go a lot of places with a lot of dogs regularly.

 

[Deleted member 2626]

I think there's just some.things that are hard to get rid of like I said all critters are different. My dog is a great listener I can walk him around other dogs sometimes without a lease but hell whack any dogs that get close to his food gotta be aware at all times. . . and you got him over a year first few months are critical

 

[Shakou]

Ma'ii is leash reactive with other dogs. It's a royal pain in the ass, but not the end of the world. You gotta try and remember what kind of a past this poor dog has and what it went through. That's probably why he's so neurotic. In Ma''i's case, he lived his whole life on a farm up in NY without ever being taken out and being exposed to anything. Can you imagine living your whole life in just one place and never seeing anything beyond the walls of that place, than suddenly one day you're world is turned completely upside down, and you're seeing EVERYTHING? That's my dog. It's a sensory overload in every sense of the word. He WANTS to please us, but he get's distracted way to easy for so many different reasons. And that's where his problems lay.

Whatever you do, no matter how frustrated you get, don't treat your dog like it's his fault/he's bad, and DON'T let other people treat him like he is either. Leash reactivity is usually the result of insecurity and anxiety problems from being restrained and feeling vulnerable to other dogs. It's NOT because your dog is "stupid" or purposely trying to be an asshole (these are all things I've had dickheads say about Ma'ii, and it get's me extremely angry). It's something that's beyond their control, like people with anxiety problems. But it CAN be helped if you work on it and stick to it.

You'll want to try and desensitize him from other dogs. It's to much for me to go into detail about while just typing, but the idea is to regain his focus on you. Getting a trainer involved who is familiar with leash reactivity and fear issues is worth it's weight in gold!

EDIT: I kept calling your dog a "he" throughout this, my bad! Didn't realize it was a female.

 

[Shakou]

One more thing to add, that may make me sound like an asshole, but it's seriously meant in good nature. This isn't meant just towards you, but to everyone on here that has dogs.

If you know your dog has problems with other dogs that could result in a fight, PLEASE do NOT put them in situations where you're setting them up for that shit! It might be inconvenient for you and your dog, it may be unfair, but the end results could be a massive vet bill, a lawsuit and your dog possibly being put to sleep.

If you're going into an area where you may run into other dogs, and you can't completely keep an eye on your dog or control them, do NOT let them off leash, no matter how much it sucks! It's not a punishment, no matter how bad you may feel, you're protecting them! Some shit is unavoidable (other idiots that disobey the leash law and let their dogs charge you), but that way when/if shit does hit the fan, it's on them because YOU were being responsible and retraining your dog.

Love the shit out of your dog, but recognize it's issues, be realistic, and protect them and others, because the alternative it going to be massively heartbreaking.

 

[Deleted member 2626]

Well well said shakou. I think a lot of these people take on dogs thinking it'll be cake at all times and not realizing if your a good dog owner everyday is spent with them and total awareness of every move. My dog is with me every day Everu minutes. Depending on availability of work. But like you said gotta be on your toesm my dogs a dick with food. I don't feed him around other dogs or a bunch of people.he gets snarly. Your dog has to be on your mind all the time. Still out beats a kid anyyyyyday

 

[Kadidlehopper]

one of the only things you can really do in this case is to try and socialize her on the leash more, a good way to start this is to have someone else with a dog as well.

have your friend stand with their dog nearby, 20 feet or so from you and your dog, when your dog starts going apeshit, stand infront of her between you and the other dog and grab her snout and make her sit, saying something like heel, or no, be loud, stern, and simple, none of that pleading shit. dont release her snout until she calms down, if she dosnt calm down within 10 or 15 minutes move the other dog farther away and start again, if she does calm down, bring the other dog closer.

for on the street, when shes sees another dog, do the same thing, grab her snout and make her sit or lay down until the other dog passes, be sure to be encouraging when she listens and treats obviously help the process.

'de-sensitizing' your dog, and avoiding other animals is the exact opposite of what you want to do, if anything itll make her worse, your dog needs to LEARN how to act around other dogs, the only way you can do that is to expose her to the problem until she knows the proper way to act.

my step father bred malamutes.

 

[Stinkyyy]

One more thing to add, that may make me sound like an asshole, but it's seriously meant in good nature. This isn't meant just towards you, but to everyone on here that has dogs.

If you know your dog has problems with other dogs that could result in a fight, PLEASE do NOT put them in situations where you're setting them up for that shit! It might be inconvenient for you and your dog, it may be unfair, but the end results could be a massive vet bill, a lawsuit and your dog possibly being put to sleep.

If you're going into an area where you may run into other dogs, and you can't completely keep an eye on your dog or control them, do NOT let them off leash, no matter how much it sucks! It's not a punishment, no matter how bad you may feel, you're protecting them! Some shit is unavoidable (other idiots that disobey the leash law and let their dogs charge you), but that way when/if shit does hit the fan, it's on them because YOU were being responsible and retraining your dog.

Love the shit out of your dog, but recognize it's issues, be realistic, and protect them and others, because the alternative it going to be massively heartbreaking.

Thanks for the advice, plus This, all of this!
Now I have Pig I know there's a lot of shit I can't do but I don't see it as a bad thing at all. I love her more than I love being able to go in certain places or hang out with certain people. I'm very lucky in that once she's spent about 10 minutes freaking out on her leash with another dog, she gets used to it and has actually made a little group of doggie friends, the problem is more passing by in the street etc.

One thing that pisses me the hell off is people telling me to just let her off the lead and 'trust her'. I keep her leashed for her own safety knowing that she could easily bound up to another dog and be attacked. She'll react and because of her breed, guess who's the bad person? Im fucking sick and tired of people trying to make me feel like a dick for it saying shit like 'Well maybe if you gave her some independence she'll just learn for herself' um fucking no thats not how it works. I let her off leash when im 100% certain no other dogs are about or its only dogs she's chill with. I give her responsibility then and she responds well and it's something that maybe we can work into every day life AFTER this leash reactivity thing has been calmed.

I was totally thinking looking for a behavioral therapist. Obviously what im trying isn't working and maybe i'm even making the issue worse so for the sake of chucking a few bucks at someone it would change our lives.

 

[Stinkyyy]

one of the only things you can really do in this case is to try and socialize her on the leash more, a good way to start this is to have someone else with a dog as well.

have your friend stand with their dog nearby, 20 feet or so from you and your dog, when your dog starts going apeshit, stand infront of her between you and the other dog and grab her snout and make her sit, saying something like heel, or no, be loud, stern, and simple, none of that pleading shit. dont release her snout until she calms down, if she dosnt calm down within 10 or 15 minutes move the other dog farther away and start again, if she does calm down, bring the other dog closer.

for on the street, when shes sees another dog, do the same thing, grab her snout and make her sit or lay down until the other dog passes, be sure to be encouraging when she listens and treats obviously help the process.

'de-sensitizing' your dog, and avoiding other animals is the exact opposite of what you want to do, if anything itll make her worse, your dog needs to LEARN how to act around other dogs, the only way you can do that is to expose her to the problem until she knows the proper way to act.

my step father bred malamutes.

This is pretty much what i'm doing, so far no luck but I know patience is key and i've not had her long (When she's obviously been allowed to act this way for the 18 months of her life) She always does eventually calm down when introduced to other dogs in a 'we're staying here with these guys' situation but passing in the street I still get no fucking response from her, not even a split second of her taking in what im saying or taking in that im saying / doing something at all.

 

[Deleted member 2626]

If your traveling this goes without saying but of not try to really wear her the hell out before public appearances. If I go down to the front desk at a motel to get a cup of coffee my dudes along, if I go outside to my car or what have you wherever I'm out he's there. Always at your side kinda gives them the idea to somewhat behave at all times. Trying to help on the internet fuckin sucks. . .

 

[Shakou]

one of the only things you can really do in this case is to try and socialize her on the leash more, a good way to start this is to have someone else with a dog as well.

have your friend stand with their dog nearby, 20 feet or so from you and your dog, when your dog starts going apeshit, stand infront of her between you and the other dog and grab her snout and make her sit, saying something like heel, or no, be loud, stern, and simple, none of that pleading shit. dont release her snout until she calms down, if she dosnt calm down within 10 or 15 minutes move the other dog farther away and start again, if she does calm down, bring the other dog closer.

for on the street, when shes sees another dog, do the same thing, grab her snout and make her sit or lay down until the other dog passes, be sure to be encouraging when she listens and treats obviously help the process.

'de-sensitizing' your dog, and avoiding other animals is the exact opposite of what you want to do, if anything itll make her worse, your dog needs to LEARN how to act around other dogs, the only way you can do that is to expose her to the problem until she knows the proper way to act.

my step father bred malamutes.

This IS desensitizing, all but the grabbing their snout and yelling at them when they react. That's a great way to make problems worse and eventually get bit. Dominance theory in dogs is outdated and a huge fucking joke.

Again, leash reactivity is NOT a matter of your dog not knowing how to act socially. It's a fear/anxiety/insecurity based issue.

 

[Shakou]

Thanks for the advice, plus This, all of this!
Now I have Pig I know there's a lot of shit I can't do but I don't see it as a bad thing at all. I love her more than I love being able to go in certain places or hang out with certain people. I'm very lucky in that once she's spent about 10 minutes freaking out on her leash with another dog, she gets used to it and has actually made a little group of doggie friends, the problem is more passing by in the street etc.

One thing that pisses me the hell off is people telling me to just let her off the lead and 'trust her'. I keep her leashed for her own safety knowing that she could easily bound up to another dog and be attacked. She'll react and because of her breed, guess who's the bad person? Im fucking sick and tired of people trying to make me feel like a dick for it saying shit like 'Well maybe if you gave her some independence she'll just learn for herself' um fucking no thats not how it works. I let her off leash when im 100% certain no other dogs are about or its only dogs she's chill with. I give her responsibility then and she responds well and it's something that maybe we can work into every day life AFTER this leash reactivity thing has been calmed.

I was totally thinking looking for a behavioral therapist. Obviously what im trying isn't working and maybe i'm even making the issue worse so for the sake of chucking a few bucks at someone it would change our lives.

It's really not the end of the world. Leash reactivity sucks, but CAN be worked on. Just DON'T use physical corrections, whatever you do! "Alpha rolling", pinning, grabbing the face, biting the dog when it's over it's thresh hold... This is going to freak your dog out more and possibly escalate to the dog biting you!

I'm not a trainer, but I am VERY heavily involved in the dog world. It's more my hobby than traveling (and part of the reason we do travel - driving to events!) I've done agility and stock dog training for a very long time and have seen a LOT!

Going to a trainer is a great start to help! I also reccomend this forum: WWW.dogforums.com

I been a member on there for years and have learned tons!

 

[Kadidlehopper]

This is pretty much what i'm doing, so far no luck but I know patience is key and i've not had her long (When she's obviously been allowed to act this way for the 18 months of her life)

Pretty much has gotta change to exactly, depending on the age and type of dog it is it could take a long time, raising a dog properly is a hard task, and leash training should have started around 6 weeks and you have already said shes over a year, while its not impossible it will be hard and you will have to be aswell. The exercise I mentioned is a really good one, if shes that insane you may have to go with a submission roll instead of sit or lay down, but practice this exercise on a daily basis until she learns, practicing it with random dogs on the street isnt very practical, nor effective, but if you control the environment the situation arises in you have a better chance of rewiring her thought process, and its less stressful for the dog.

you may not like it, it may seem old, but 'dominance theory' is one of the only means of training an animal we have, you reward and encourage good behavior and discipline/ discourage bad behavior, no matter what you do this is what training comes back too. disciplining can be taken overboard with some people, you obviously dont want to beat your dog, but if nothing gains its attention you have to assert yourself somehow, and pleading and waving treats isnt going to cut it. the snout grab and submission roll is not 'desensitizing' your dog, you are not yelling and screaming, your saying a simple command in a loud & stern voice, its a means of maintaining its attention, what you do next is what may desensitize your dog, if you hold your ground and maintain control, your dog will realize this behavior is wrong/gets it nowhere and eventually will stop, if you pin your dog and start beating it, or shove treats in its face youre only confusing it, and thats whats going to fuck your dog up.


stunt training and behavioral training are two different ball games, and Id never recommend snout grabbing or submission rolls in the prior, this is for correcting problems in dogs that will plainly not listen, not traditional reering, this is one of the reasons millan was cancelled, people where using his techniques on puppies and shit, and going overboard with it to boot.


Im not interested in arguing the validity of alternate theories, in my opinion too many people have involved these liberal psuedo teaching techniques into everything when all thats needed is a level head and consistancy, just because a few dumb people take it overboard and ride their dogs like pack mules dosnt mean its an incorrect practice. we have a method that we know works, and has been seen implemented in the wild, and Ive personally seen it in our dogs. In a way we learned more from the dogs then anything else, to watch an animal be raised and grown within a pack, the amount of consideration and respect between dogs in a hierarchy, it really is an amazing thing, an art that should be taught by a pro and not sought on the internet, especially a forum of social misfits.



I can guarantee if you take your dog to a trainer [and you should] the aforementioned exercise will be brought up.

good luck

 

[Shakou]

No GOOD, well educated trainer would ever reccomend training a leash reactive dog using "dominance" and physical corrections. It's a very outdated method that has been proven to do more harm than good. You're putting even more fear into a dog that already has fear and insecurity problems rather than building their confidence, and thus NOT addressing the real problem.

Dominance the way that was commonly believed amongst dogs is a myth. It doesn't even exist among wolves. And even if it did exist, people are NOT dogs. Dogs KNOW we are not dogs. There for trying to train our dogs by disciplining them the way a dog would not only looks dumb, but is ineffective and can cause MAJOR issues.

There isn't much of a difference in performance training and behavior training, but that wasn't my point. My point was that dogs are not just something I like. Dogs are my hobby, borderlining an obsession. I'm not an expert, but I KNOW dogs, I have a LOT of experience with them and with what works and what doesn't and the results of both of those simply by years of involvement in dog sports and events alone.

 

[Kadidlehopper]

Dominance the way that was commonly believed amongst dogs is a myth. It doesn't even exist among wolves

Im not even going to start a debate on that one.

Dogs are my hobby,

Like I mentioned, My step father bred and trained malamutes, dogs were my life.


look, I gave my input, you gave yours. Im not interested in arguing over 50 years of animal behavioral study. In the end its up to her to choose the appropriate means of training, and we both agreed on her seeing a trainer so lets just run with that and let it go..

 

[Shakou]

You realize the original biologist that lead those 50 years of canine behavior studies and coined the term "alpha" in wolves retracted the statement, right?

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha-Dogs_20416-1.html

http://www.davemech.org/news.html

True story, bro. There's nothing to debate, it's a fact.

Knowing someone who bred and trained malamutes doesn't make an outdated method justified. The OP is free to do as she pleases, snd take the advice of whoever, but I've seen WAY to many dogs ruined and put to sleep because the owners took advice from people like you.

If you're not interested in learning something new, drop it and stop arguing with me.

 

[Kadidlehopper]

You realize the biologist that coined the term "alpha" in wolves retracted the statement, right?

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha-Dogs_20416-1.html

http://www.davemech.org/news.html

Oh wow, theyre talking about in terms of breeding structure, this has been known for ages now, its also can also be reffered to as the natural selection gene. The term 'alpha' is still correct, its just the meaning has been changed. Its obviously not one boss wolf bossing the others around, its a complex relationship amung everyone for the group effort, discipline is still there, a hierarchy is still there, it is not a free for all.

you started this debate, you responded to me, despite me not even acknowledging you.

 

[Shakou]

Okay. I think it's safe for me to say you really don't know what you're talking about at ALL. It's not in terms of breeding structure, it's in terms of social structure as well. You obviously didn't read the entire articles. There is no heirarchy and there is no dominance. Not the way you're claiming. And even if there was, we are NOT dogs. I'm not going to waste my time with you anymore. But I will address this:

you started this debate, you responded to me, despite me not even acknowledging you.

'de-sensitizing' your dog, and avoiding other animals is the exact opposite of what you want to do, if anything itll make her worse

Yeah, you did acknowledge me. Maybe not directly, but indirectly, and even if you didn't, you're still offering God aweful fucking advice, to which I'll ALWAYS comment on when it comes to dogs.

OP, you are always welcome to PM me if you want further advice, but a trainer that uses positive reinforcement is the way to go. You can also go to the forum link I gave you. A lot of people there are professional trainers, breeders, involved in rescue and sports, and the list goes on. VERY very dog savvy people!

Best of luck to you!