The Watchtower

[Coywolf]

I'll usually fuck with these sorts of people.

I Wil tell them that I am Pagan and worship the Old God (which Is true).

If that doesn't work, or scare the shit out of them, causING the to immediate grasp their cross, I will tell them a REAL story. Not something out of a constantly edited book for the past 2000 years.

My story is about the destruction and genocide of an entire people in europe, by the christian and catholic church.

Pagans, druids, and most other old religions were stamped out during the rise of Christianity, killed for their beliefs.

Then the Church did something that would solidify their efforts forever. They took the "old god", a horned and hoofed looking creature, and turnEd it into the most evIL and feared creature of THEIR religion....Satan.

Aint that some shit? Fuck organized religion.

 

[AlwaysLost]

I'll usually fuck with these sorts of people.

I Wil tell them that I am Pagan and worship the Old God (which Is true).

If that doesn't work, or scare the shit out of them, causING the to immediate grasp their cross, I will tell them a REAL story. Not something out of a constantly edited book for the past 2000 years.

My story is about the destruction and genocide of an entire people in europe, by the christian and catholic church.

Pagans, druids, and most other old religions were stamped out during the rise of Christianity, killed for their beliefs.

Then the Church did something that would solidify their efforts forever. They took the "old god", a horned and hoofed looking creature, and turnEd it into the most evIL and feared creature of THEIR religion....Satan.

Aint that some shit? Fuck organized religion.

Lol I always wondered why Christians think everyone is going to Hell aka Hel aka Helheim to sleep amidst the roots of Ygdrasil.

 

[nivoldoog]

Epic video. I realized now that I screwed up the whole negotiation. I should have told her that I'd love to listen to her over breakfast if shed go buy me a diet Pepsi and a couple more breakfast sandwiches. Maybe a little whisky and cigs for after.

I don't know.... screaming Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh seems like a good tactic to.

But he basically said what I said on how to handle them. If you flee from talking about God and the bible... who do you work for?

 

[nivoldoog]

I'll usually fuck with these sorts of people.

I Wil tell them that I am Pagan and worship the Old God (which Is true).

If that doesn't work, or scare the shit out of them, causING the to immediate grasp their cross, I will tell them a REAL story. Not something out of a constantly edited book for the past 2000 years.

My story is about the destruction and genocide of an entire people in europe, by the christian and catholic church.

Pagans, druids, and most other old religions were stamped out during the rise of Christianity, killed for their beliefs.

Then the Church did something that would solidify their efforts forever. They took the "old god", a horned and hoofed looking creature, and turnEd it into the most evIL and feared creature of THEIR religion....Satan.

Aint that some shit? Fuck organized religion.

Just had a convo about this with my cousin. He basically said what you said, including the part about the horned devil.

 

[VikingAdventurer]

Lol I always wondered why Christians think everyone is going to Hell aka Hel aka Helheim to sleep amidst the roots of Ygdrasil.

"Hell" is not the Same place as Hel or Helheim.

"Hell" is a concept invented by the church in order to terrify converts into blind obedience lest they suffer eternal torment, and they got the name of it by bastardizing the ancient norse name for the underworld.

Don't believe me? Find some mention of "hell" in the old testament, or even older, the Torah.

 

[AlwaysLost]

"Hell" is not the Same place as Hel or Helheim.

"Hell" is a concept invented by the church in order to terrify converts into blind obedience lest they suffer eternal torment, and they got the name of it by bastardizing the ancient norse name for the underworld.

Don't believe me? Find some mention of "hell" in the old testament, or even older, the Torah.

Nope that s totally what I was getting at bro! Sheol (garbage pit) in the torah and Hades in the Greek bible.

The catholics edited in hell right around the time the Danes invaded England.

I say this totally Heterosexually but I love that you and Odin get me.

 

[AlwaysLost]

Nope that s totally what I was getting at bro! Sheol (garbage pit) in the torah and Hades in the Greek bible.

The catholics edited in hell right around the time the Danes invaded England.

I say this totally Heterosexually but I love that you and Odin get me.

Well actually I agree with everyone on this thread.

 

[DrewSTNY]

TL/DR - I partly disagree with Coy, but believe what you want man, just be civil towards others if you want them to respect you and not give you a bunch of shit.

Long version -

Coy, I agree about organized religion, but disagree about followers of Christ - ie. Christians. The early Christians were burned alive for their beliefs until Caesar figured out that co-opting Christianity as a religion was cheaper and more profitable to the empire. Thus, he created the church as a state organization and ordained pagan priests as the new christian clergy en mass. Every Judaic holiday was corrupted with pagan ritual in order to create an ecumenical abomination. That is why the orthodox churches split with Rome. It is also why Martin Luther wrote the 95 theses. Maybe I'm reading more into what you said, but most people equate Christianity with organized religion which it is more certainly not.

To belittle the bible, but hold up mystical writings originating from equally questionable sources as "enlightened" is complete bullshit. Most people pursuing an ascetic lifestyle genuine enlightenment respect all mystical writings although they may follow one more closely than others whether they be Muslim, Hindu, Jain, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Pagan, Druid, etc.

Throughout history, people have killed other people in the name of one religion or another. To paint vast swaths of people into that bloodbath is ignorant and out right hateful towards fellow man to be honest.

With regard to Francis Chan, he's a pretty cool dude that shoots straight. He speaks what he believes as the truth and has had some pretty crazy shit happen in his life.

 

[AlwaysLost]

TL/DR - I partly disagree with Coy, but believe what you want man, just be civil towards others if you want them to respect you and not give you a bunch of shit.

Long version -

Coy, I agree about organized religion, but disagree about followers of Christ - ie. Christians. The early Christians were burned alive for their beliefs until Caesar figured out that co-opting Christianity as a religion was cheaper and more profitable to the empire. Thus, he created the church as a state organization and ordained pagan priests as the new christian clergy en mass. Every Judaic holiday was corrupted with pagan ritual in order to create an ecumenical abomination. That is why the orthodox churches split with Rome. It is also why Martin Luther wrote the 95 theses. Maybe I'm reading more into what you said, but most people equate Christianity with organized religion which it is more certainly not.

To belittle the bible, but hold up mystical writings originating from equally questionable sources as "enlightened" is complete bullshit. Most people pursuing an ascetic lifestyle genuine enlightenment respect all mystical writings although they may follow one more closely than others whether they be Muslim, Hindu, Jain, Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Pagan, Druid, etc.

Throughout history, people have killed other people in the name of one religion or another. To paint vast swaths of people into that bloodbath is ignorant and out right hateful towards fellow man to be honest.

With regard to Francis Chan, he's a pretty cool dude that shoots straight. He speaks what he believes as the truth and has had some pretty crazy shit happen in his life.

I'm afraid your right Drew. People have been awful to each other since the beginning. The history suggests that Abraham conquered Israel by genocide.

I actually have no issues with Jehovah except for their disdain for holidays and extreme rudeness. Their beliefs are just too foreign to my core ideology. I think I don't trust their or Mormon faith because it was invented too recently.

I'm sure even Christianity seemed cultish in the beginning. I've actually become more a Judaic in my beliefs over time. So I dobtry to keep an open mind.

 

[Coywolf]

I'm hoping that everyone on this thread realizes that there is a difference between religion, and organized religion.

Religion is a belief system, and organized religion is a way to control people by a certain group telling the rest that they are closer to a diety than the general populous.

I'll stand with my original statement. Fuck organized religion.

The "Church" has been the downfall of every belief system.

 

[AlwaysLost]

Agreed I don't need any corporation to sell me salvation just cheeseburgers.

 

[Coywolf]

And also, the bible has many great teachings, the problem is that most people believe it is the word of God, and has not been edited over the years by any and every person who thought they knew better than the last. That is the problem I have with people taking that book withough a grain of salt.

As far as belittling anyone. Yes, you are reading way too far into what I wrote

 

[Coywolf]

ALSO. Im usually civil with people. But when you come up to me and tell me that I am going to their imaginary "Hell" for not believing the same thing that they do is an incredible insult. And, in my mind, that makes me think they might be going to their own imaginary shithole.

I have had this multiple times while traveling, and I will ask them why they wouldnt be going to the same place for telling me that. There is never a straight answer.

 

[nivoldoog]

So I am a "Cosmic Christian"

I believe heaven and hell exists like parallel universes.

Now, take two circles, have them over lap in the middle. The place they over lap is earth and the circles are heaven and hell. We get to choose heaven or hell. It is as simple as a step to the left or right which one you are in. Hate... or love. Your choice.

 

[DrewSTNY]

Coy, thanks for clarifying. I still disagree with you about the authority of the Bible, but that's OK. Archeology tells me that the original manuscripts are essentially unchanged over time. Translations of those manuscripts are just that, translations that are prone to error and interpretation. That's why scholars of the Quran and the Bible insist on studying the text in the original languages. I just wish I could read Hebrew and Greek, but I can't so I have to rely on potentially flawed translations; therefore, I have several to compare against each other.

 

[AlwaysLost]

Coy, thanks for clarifying. I still disagree with you about the authority of the Bible, but that's OK. Archeology tells me that the original manuscripts are essentially unchanged over time. Translations of those manuscripts are just that, translations that are prone to error and interpretation. That's why scholars of the Quran and the Bible insist on studying the text in the original languages. I just wish I could read Hebrew and Greek, but I can't so I have to rely on potentially flawed translations; therefore, I have several to compare against each other.

Aren't most of the original Texts in Aramaic? One reason I don't take an absolute take on the he bible is that Rome has a lot of the original texts locked away.

 

[DrewSTNY]

Depends on which books, I don't really know. Since Aramaic was the lingua franca of Hebrew, you certainly would be right; however, I don't know the history of that relationship.

The oldest manuscripts regardless of original language are kept by the Coptic church in Egypt. With the constant threat of historical revision, they are fearful that most of those will be destroyed if the Copts are pushed out of that country. It would be a great loss to all humanity if those scrolls are destroyed. They have an incredible library of the earliest Christian writings as well as ancient scroll transcriptions of the Torah and the writings of the desert elders.

Despite it's prominence, I don't really trust the archives of the Vatican although they certainly do have verified copies of import dating from the Council of Nicea. To require unflagging trust in an ordained priest's interpretation of the biblical text is pretty sketchy. That's why the Guttenburg Bible is so important to ordinary people like us. Without it, we would continue to be ignorant to the teachings of the Bible and Torah.

 

[AlwaysLost]

Depends on which books, I don't really know. Since Aramaic was the lingua franca of Hebrew, you certainly would be right; however, I don't know the history of that relationship.

The oldest manuscripts regardless of original language are kept by the Coptic church in Egypt. With the constant threat of historical revision, they are fearful that most of those will be destroyed if the Copts are pushed out of that country. It would be a great loss to all humanity if those scrolls are destroyed. They have an incredible library of the earliest Christian writings as well as ancient scroll transcriptions of the Torah and the writings of the desert elders.

Despite it's prominence, I don't really trust the archives of the Vatican although they certainly do have verified copies of import dating from the Council of Nicea. To require unflagging trust in an ordained priest's interpretation of the biblical text is pretty sketchy. That's why the Guttenburg Bible is so important to ordinary people like us. Without it, we would continue to be ignorant to the teachings of the Bible and Torah.

You are a lot more knowledgeable than me lol.

 

[Coywolf]

You are a lot more knowledgeable than me lol.

Yes, it seems his knowledge base exceeds mine on the subject.

 

[VikingAdventurer]

...I say this totally Heterosexually but I love that you and Odin get me.

Psshh, we're all adults here. Ain't nobody got time for any of that Jr high "no homo, but" bullshit. LMAO.

TL/DR - I partly disagree with Coy, but believe what you want man, just be civil towards others if you want them to respect you and not give you a bunch of shit...

Agreed!::drinkingbuddy::

... I actually have no issues with Jehovah except for their disdain for holidays and extreme rudeness... I don't trust their or Mormon faith because it was invented too recently...

SAME!

And also, the bible has many great teachings, the problem is that most people believe it is the word of God, and has not been edited over the years by any and every person who thought they knew better than the last. That is the problem I have with people taking that book without a grain of salt

This is also one of the problems that I have with the "Christian" Bible.

... To require unflagging trust in an ordained priest's interpretation of the biblical text is pretty sketchy. That's why the Guttenburg Bible is so important to ordinary people like us. Without it, we would continue to be ignorant to the teachings of the Bible and Torah.

I agree with this 100%.

This is a good thread.