so true brother john. you straight htich for a few days no probs and then get that one sketched ride. I have bitten my dogs nose, sign of dominance i read once and smacked him before, because of what others say when their extremely stubborn. My dog is so damn smart though and not much correction was needed. he protects me and almost anything i or he lays claim to. But i think like some of the better posters said a little physical action is very neccesary in some circumstances when it comes to teaching or keeping your dog in control. helps in the long run for on the road you know that same old tune