Is white people stretching their ears cultural appropriation? (1 Viewer)

Roxy

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Cultural appropriation happens in 2 phases. First, it's done by a counter culture seeking to distinguish themselves from the larger mainstream culture they come from. Then, it is gradually adoped by the mainstream culture simply because they come to like the asthetic of it. This does to the counter culture what was first done to the traditional culture: stripping their cultural signifiers of their meaning. I agree that ear stretching is a bit of a grey area, for reasons already mentioned, but with as many people who seemed to agree that cultural appropriation is no big deal, I think we should reflect on this point. The way a person looks to us, who gets dreadlocks done in a salon, is the way any white person wearing them looks to a person from a culture who wore them traditionally. Nobody is trying to deny you freedom of expression, they are asking that out of respect, you refrain from adopting asthetics that have special meaning to them which you are not a part of.

Okay, like in the example of dread locks, i have "white" friends whose naturally curly hair happen to lock naturally. Being that that already occurs they may decide to adapt the dread look out of convenience. Say, someone whose has hair who naturally dreads did not dread their hair before because they thought of it as an inconvenience and not a style. Then this hypothetical person sees a Rasta (hypothetically) for the first time and decides hey i think i wanna do that with my hair, it would be easier than combing my dreads out. Obviously this person is not trying to harm anyone, yet i have heard stories of Rasta's punching dudes in the stomach for having dreads, and dreads for them is natural, not cultural but natural, even if it wasnt they can. Not all cultural appropriation situations are like this of course, but the nature of the human being exists here. The same human beings who create a culture, create sub cultures, borrow from other cultures, having respect for other cultures i get. Humans have just been doing this for so long, what once belonged to the Sumerians, now belongs to the Babylonians. We just live in a hyper sensitive culture, yet, this topic probably has always been sensitive. I think this is a topic on ethics, my ethics are culturaly abnormal, and i attack mental advances on my freedom , including ones that come from those who want some moral ethical idea out of me.

I am ranting, thinking and typing.
Sorry about my grammar.
 
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Lee Larson

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Iv had my ears gauged for over 10 years. I dont beleive its cultural apropriation. White people use to be considered barbarians back in the day. Celtic and germanic tribes would modify their looks and do tattoos, whose to say given enough time they wouldnt have started gauging their ears. Plus why worry about cultural apropriation when all christians, muslims, jews and any other follower of any organized religion is apropriating anothers culture. Do what you want for you, and fuck the haters.
 

Roxy

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Main stream culture will never be my culture. Fighting for marginalized groups in main stream culture is only fighting for more white picket fences. Your fighting for the marginalized groups of mainstream cultures right to consumerism, so they can also have people in government who make laws that make it hard for alternative groups. My lifestyle isn't a lifestyle to any of them, i am of no class, and I support none of them. Being a brown person in America comes after to being anarchist, it also comes after being a woman. I can't see any family amongst brown none anarchist Americans actually so it isn't really actually a thing for me to care about. The thought for me is whose culture do u care about and will they ever give a shit about you.
 

Dameon

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I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but frankly, I consider "cultural appropriation" to be kind of ridiculous. Cultural exchange happens, it's been happening for a long time, and it's going to continue happening, because it's 100% natural for cultures to adopt things from a culture they encounter. And guess what? That doesn't diminish the culture they're adopting from in any way, any more than gay people getting married diminishes heterosexual marriages.

Most of the people who talk about "cultural appropriation" are hypocrites, I've found; they're more interested in skin color than actual cultures. For example, which specific tribes have traditionally done ear stretching? Are _only_ people descended from those tribes or current members allowed to stretch their ears, or is it just "POC can stretch their ears and white people can't"? If it's the former, then why isn't the conversation about that, rather than about race?

It doesn't even make sense if you actually want to apply it equally. So only the original people who did something are allowed to ever do it...should we track down the very first tribe to stretch their ears, and tell other tribes who currently do it that they're no longer allowed to because they appropriated it from the first tribe's culture? What are the criteria for something being "cultural appropriation"? Should every culture just get locked into a state in which it must exist forever, ending cultural exchange and advancement? At what point am I "allowed" to engage in a different culture; am I engaging in "cultural appropriation" if I play traditional Irish music even though my closest direct-from-Ireland ancestor is my great-grandfather? Is an Asian guy I know who plays traditional Irish music but has no Irish ancestry engaging in cultural appropriation? The only criteria I've seen is skin color, and skin color is not culture.

I get the point of respecting and preserving other cultures, but I think the idea that we should just magically freeze cultural exchange is ridiculous and impossible. In conclusion, just because some dude was the first person to come up with stretching his earlobes doesn't mean he's the only one that ever gets to do it.
 

WyldLyfe

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Some people it seems have forgotten or don't know there roots, someone above mentioned white people being tribal which is good, Germanic tribes, Nordic shamans, Celtic Druid's, ect.. Some people think they have to go hang with native Americans or aboriginal people to get into that stuff, which is fine we can all learn from each other, but they themselves already have it with there ancestors, and it goes deeper, within the blood of every humans body flows the DNA the blood codes of there ancestors and that information can be tapped into through medatative practices and how humanity may one day peace together the true history of man.

As for OPs I guess do what you want, but some culture things when crossed over would look stupid, like for example someone with a south pacific Polynesian tribal tattoo when they themselves are not of that race or blood line. Bloodlines are relevant and genetic codes, the royals of the world have all been very perticular about keeping there bloodlines "pure" there blood line is evil though and all this goes deeper and can show a person what they are connected with on other planes of reality and off world civilisations, through the ethereal DNA codes as well and everyone has this stuff.
 

Dameon

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Bloodlines are relevant and genetic codes, the royals of the world have all been very perticular about keeping there bloodlines "pure" there blood line is evil though and all this goes deeper and can show a person what they are connected with on other planes of reality and off world civilisations, through the ethereal DNA codes as well and everyone has this stuff.
Just...WTF...
 

MFB

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This was fun to read.

I really dig what Roxy and Dameon had to say.

My opinion, all culture is universal now. The interwebs and profit dictate that.
My homie makes bank at festivals selling middle class gals those comfy thai pants that have efelants on them.
 

coltsfoot

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...frankly, I consider "cultural appropriation" to be kind of ridiculous. Cultural exchange happens, it's been happening for a long time, and it's going to continue happening, because it's 100% natural for cultures to adopt things from a culture they encounter. And guess what? That doesn't diminish the culture they're adopting from in any way, any more than gay people getting married diminishes heterosexual marriages.

Sure, well im guessing that if people dressed like a stereotype of you for halloween or used you as their team mascot but didnt do shit to fight for you while your ancestral lands were being stolen and destroyed for corporate ends i think youd be pretty pissed off. That is a gross example of cultural appropriation but all too real... one group of people having all the power and taking, without ever having to ask or give back.

This is the colonist mind set and is what built every empire we know.

Like i said before, it's not about not having cultural exchange. cultural exchange to me is part of what makes life so interesting. it's just about being mindful of what the power dynamics are in our actions before considering other people's cultures open for business. there's a big difference here.

i just think we need to move away from taker culture in general. so much entitlement and taking taking taking without thinking for a second about who is getting hurt or fucked over by our actions (or inaction).
 

Dameon

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Sure, well im guessing that if people dressed like a stereotype of you for halloween or used you as their team mascot but didnt do shit to fight for you while your ancestral lands were being stolen and destroyed for corporate ends i think youd be pretty pissed off. That is a gross example of cultural appropriation but all too real... one group of people having all the power and taking, without ever having to ask or give back.
That's a bit different from cultural appropriation as I was thinking of it. The problem there isn't that they're taking something from another culture, it's that they're mocking another culture, and that's definitely not cool. I think there's a big difference between wearing blackface and wearing dreadlocks.
 

coltsfoot

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Yeah I mean the headdress costume is not a subtle example.

A less obvious one could be all the non-native people around the U.S. burning white sage for spiritual practices. This plant that is sacred to native people in the SW gets used willy-nilly by folks that don't have any respect or understanding for the ecological or cultural context in which these plants come from. Fine if you don't believe in the sacred or spiritual, in which case this example doesn't apply to you, but obviously the non-native people who are burning sage for "cleansing" have some belief in the spirituality of it. Yet how many of those people care to think about what the effects of their consumption actually is? How many have considered talking to a native person to see how they feel about it? Meanwhile the over harvesting of white sage to meet the demand is having a huge impact on their population. Just another example of those who are privileged/have the power continue taking what benefits them without having to give a shit about the marginalized group that they are taking from. And the native people who have tended these plants for thousands of years continue to fight back against the taker colonist mindset with so little support.

ok doodz i gotta go i'm super late for yoga and i'm not gonna have time to get my double espresso latte

ommmmmmmmmmmm
 

roughdraft

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This is what I wanna know

What was the "culture" that originated "gauging one's ears"?

and who can possibly validate their claim to that knowledge to anywhere near 100%?
 

Roxy

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Some people it seems have forgotten or don't know there roots, someone above mentioned white people being tribal which is good, Germanic tribes, Nordic shamans, Celtic Druid's, ect.. Some people think they have to go hang with native Americans or aboriginal people to get into that stuff, which is fine we can all learn from each other, but they themselves already have it with there ancestors, and it goes deeper, within the blood of every humans body flows the DNA the blood codes of there ancestors and that information can be tapped into through medatative practices and how humanity may one day peace together the true history of man.

As for OPs I guess do what you want, but some culture things when crossed over would look stupid, like for example someone with a south pacific Polynesian tribal tattoo when they themselves are not of that race or blood line. Bloodlines are relevant and genetic codes, the royals of the world have all been very perticular about keeping there bloodlines "pure" there blood line is evil though and all this goes deeper and can show a person what they are connected with on other planes of reality and off world civilisations, through the ethereal DNA codes as well and everyone has this stuff.
I'm

Sorry here.i give no fucks, bloodline
Yeah I mean the headdress costume is not a subtle example.

A less obvious one could be all the non-native people around the U.S. burning white sage for spiritual practices. This plant that is sacred to native people in the SW gets used willy-nilly by folks that don't have any respect or understanding for the ecological or cultural context in which these plants come from. Fine if you don't believe in the sacred or spiritual, in which case this example doesn't apply to you, but obviously the non-native people who are burning sage for "cleansing" have some belief in the spirituality of it. Yet how many of those people care to think about what the effects of their consumption actually is? How many have considered talking to a native person to see how they feel about it? Meanwhile the over harvesting of white sage to meet the demand is having a huge impact on their population. Just another example of those who are privileged/have the power continue taking what benefits them without having to give a shit about the marginalized group that they are taking from. And the native people who have tended these plants for thousands of years continue to fight back against the taker colonist mindset with so little support.

ok doodz i gotta go i'm super late for yoga and i'm not gonna have time to get my double espresso latte

ommmmmmmmmmmm




UHHHH im jamaican and we also burn sage to cleanse a new house from demons. Just saying. The idea is always to combat, never to understand.
 

WyldLyfe

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Ill also mention there is a study on memory genetics, this is how some believe that some animals are born and know straight away what to do, eg: baby horses knowing how to walk instantly or other animals just knowing things from the moment of birth, it being passed down via the memory within the codes..

From google: " 'Memories' pass between generations. Behaviour can be affected by events in previous generations which have been passed on through a form of genetic memory, animal studies suggest. Experiments showed that a traumatic event could affect the DNA in sperm and alter the brains and behaviour of subsequent generations."

I am also going to mention another field of study. EPIGENETICS.

The word epigenetics is derived from greek meaning “beyond; further than; past,” and the latin verb genere, meaning “to make; to create.” Epigenetics is an emerging branch of science that takes human consciousness into consideration regarding the biological, psychological and physiologial expressions of human society.

“that which goes beyond our genes”

The science of epigenetics clearly demonstrates that human beings possess the ability to create adaptive changes to their gene expressions via changes in consciousness. Genes have been proven to be only a tendency for biological expression. Since consciousness precedes the genetic expression, if consciousness is changed, gene expression can be fundementally altered.
 

benton

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so are white people supposed to stop listening to reggae, having drum circles, etc? Nice djembe you got there...

If I put on a modest black suit and a large black hat and grow my beard but shave my mustache am I appropriating Amish culture? What about the fudge they sell at truck stops made by Amish, is that ok?

Once one heads down this path, it will never end. Reminds me of 1984. When almost everything is prohibited, its totalitarianism and we aren't being dictated what one can't do so much as "here is exactly how to behave in every situation" right down to specific facial expressions (every aspect of thought and action, really).

The moment I can be compelled to only express myself in specific ways, I no longer have freedom of expression.

This IS the slippery slope.
 

void gaze

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That’s pretty fucking hyperbolic dude, no one is “telling you how to act in every single detail of every situation,” much less an all-powerful state with power to imprison and torture ypu. Y’all, the state is putting migrants in literal concentration camps. They don’t care anymore than you do about this subject. Comparing 1984 to people on an anarchist traveler website questioning the politics of ‘cultural exchange’ is just galaxy brained af.
 

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