How "love" is a illusion (1 Viewer)

Origen

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My wife just walked out on me, so call me biased. I have always had my own peculiar, idiosyncratic view of human behavior, though.

Anybody in here like Julian Jaynes? He might be gaining in pop awareness from that cable tv series version of Westworld. It was a cheesy movie in the 70s, ignorant young people.

Anyway, and I'll follow up on this if anybody cares because this is a drive by posting; a big part of the way people act or choose to act has to be largely hidden from their conscious process. We choose to do things because of drives or impulses that are always there and acting on us, but we are only aware of them when they are acute. We can be led by that, trapped, herded, caught. And we are.

The majority of men are probably alone more often than the majority of women. So men look for women in vulnerable states; they hover, they wait, and they take advantage of vulnerability.

Women take advantage of men, too; by collectively behaving a certain way either in reaction to men's behavior or out of their own desires, they force men into competition with each other whether they consciously want to do that or not; their choices reward competitive and adversarial male behavior toward other males.

The whole socioeconomic reality of any culture, but especially the west, can in my view be traced to an abusive sexually rooted mindset.

Look at the structure of western suburban life and compare it to the medieval separation of the landed class and the peasantry. Modern "reproductives" in our evil ant colony construct the institutions of harm and repression a lot of the people here hate- police, real estate shit, the educational system- all to give their own offspring an advantage. The divisions between rich and poor and haves and have nots look a lot to me like a feudal castle, with soccer yuppie parents on the inside of a socioeconomic mafia and people who have been excluded from that on the outside. People are not only conditioned to think they need wealth in order to bring up children, the society ACTIVELY harms and abuses their children if they don't have that wealth. It's the same malicious neglect that has prisoners attacking one another and making their own situation worse- that is encouraged, that is the desire of the institution.

If you spend 30k a year sending your kids to a private school, wouldn't you be happy if kids in the public schools were getting hurt, having terrible experiences? It would justify the expense to you, make your decisions seem more rational and good. Come to think of it, how many school shootings have been at private schools?

I want to have a family. More than anything, I want to be a part of a family. Both because in my heart I know I am a valid human being and I have the right to want a full human life and because I know I have something to offer someone and future generations through my children that should exist in this world. But any woman looking at me has this barrier to seeing me that way, from the culture and from the real obstacles that she would face bringing up children with me. It would be tantamount to accepting in her imagination that her children would be born as lepers, practically. There would be real things that would help nurture them or help them in life that I could never help them get access to, that other people would have. She has a right to want those advantages for her offspring. But, how do her choices affect reality, in that space? I think that is where the system is most horrifically gamed.

Blah blah blah, western notion of romantic love is the lynchpin of abusive capitalist society, yadda yadda yadda. A marxist utopia would have to be an asexual eunuch society, etc. Please subscribe to my newsletter for details.
I’m fascinated by your thoughts on relationships and the idea of asexuality as a path. I’d like to see your newsletter
 
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D

Deleted member 25220

I closed my account
Richard Dawkins -
“Life is matter and only matter. We are survival machines — robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules of DNA known as genes. The only purpose of life is DNA survival: a person is nothing more than DNA’s way of making more DNA like itself.”

I just spent about 4 days sifting through research on data collected from dating sites. It was a good eye opener for me. It shows just how truly animalistic and false we all really are.

Oh I shouldn't say false... Courtship rituals (called by humans "dating") selects for cognitive ability. If I want to fuck a girl, for instance, I can't just walk up and stick it in. On no, that only selects for physical strength. A man must undergo strict rules of engagement. Like a game, weeding out the ones who cant play. Darwin wrote some interesting notes on this in Descent of Man - woman are the gate keepers to evolution.

But I digress... It's really a wonderful science. Did you know they coined a saying? "10℅ of the guys get 90℅ of the women (on dating sites)." Alpha males don't exist? Ugh huh...

But you know what? This is all just nature's schemes. It's the Bell Curve - nature selection for extremes as the engine of change. What humans call "love" then must just be a aggregate of a bunch of selection mechanisms all veiled by that name.

Nature places her spell upon Man's mind
Like a magician who distracts to conceal her designs

As the poem goes..

Oh I could go on and on... But what's the point?
Common knowledge that approximately 18 months after the “flame” is gone relationships fail- that is when conscious relating must be engaged-& the work begins. A very high % of relationships fail at that point
Cocreating takes strength,intelligence and willingness.Until we climb the next rung of consciousness DNA will rule.
 

onandonward

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If love is an illusion, so what? I know that when a person looks at me intently in a crowded room, and I feel that spark of interest and flattery, both their attraction to me and my reception to their attraction have nothing to do with who we each are individually. "Love," if defined as something based upon attraction, is not tentative, sensitive or intelligent. It is about usage. Whenever I have approached a person based upon attraction (mine or theirs) there has been an utter vacancy or toxicity to our relationship. Unfortunately, we live in a time in which attractiveness has become monetized and the main credential by which we judge possible partners.

However, I have many friends. Friendship, in my opinion, is love. It is not rooted in attraction. It is about conversing, philosophizing, laughing, high, in a field and staring at the moon. Every person that I have met who I have been with romantically based upon our friendship has been the right person: has known me, respected me, and valued me beyond the bodily.

What I mean is, you see "love" as being chosen as a sexual partner. There has never been a beauty to humans rutting against each other, or any type of mental connection. We've been fucking since before we could speak or know each other. Fucking is not love, even if it feels nice. Of course the idea that fucking is "love" is an illusion.

Love is close friendship, and close friendship, the exchange of actual mental understanding, is, in my opinion, the most advanced skill humans have. Every animal fucks. But only humans are able to truly wonder at a pensive face; what the hell are you thinking about?

And, to all of you folks looking for love:
1. Lower your standards
2. Approach them as friends, in person
3. Make the first move

if this handy-dandy list doesn't work for you:
Take no for an answer, and pursue someone else

and you will find a partner.
 
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salxtina

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I'm pretty sure that, no matter *what* level of consciousness we're on, our desires and actions are expressions of our DNA, reading and continually modifying/being modified by its ecosystems...

I'll take a pass
on all the claims of 'seeing through the veils', this-and-that revelation, seeing the universe as having some unified 'intention,' supposed readings of 'manifestation,'
That supposedly lead men to see deities, constellations, rocks and rivers as sentient beings
Maybe after a hundred more trips they'll even start seeing women that way
 

roughdraft

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I'm pretty sure that, no matter *what* level of consciousness we're on, our desires and actions are expressions of our DNA, reading and continually modifying/being modified by its ecosystems...

I'll take a pass
on all the claims of 'seeing through the veils', this-and-that revelation, seeing the universe as having some unified 'intention,' supposed readings of 'manifestation,'
That supposedly lead men to see deities, constellations, rocks and rivers as sentient beings
Maybe after a hundred more trips they'll even start seeing women that way

If you're serious on making such a rash generalization of "men" not seeing women as sentient beings, it doesn't surprise me you are seeming to express a lack of interest, lack of faith in more abstract ideas of the mysteries of the world.

At the same time, it's a good point, many men are sexist and ignorant, most people fuckin suck. I want to see a lot of things change.
 
D

Deleted member 24782

I closed my account
I've been married for 5 years, pretty fuckin' happy most of the time. But I still don't believe love is real. I believe its a word we use to associate other deeper parts of human emotion and needs. Love for men = sex/respect. Love for women, is showing care through symbolic acts, like cleaning the house, paying attention, cooking dinner. Totally generalizations, but thats how I feel about it at the moment.
 

roughdraft

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I've been married for 5 years, pretty fuckin' happy most of the time. But I still don't believe love is real. I believe its a word we use to associate other deeper parts of human emotion and needs. Love for men = sex/respect. Love for women, is showing care through symbolic acts, like cleaning the house, paying attention, cooking dinner. Totally generalizations, but thats how I feel about it at the moment.

it's interesting, I would say sex, respect, paying attention, cleaning the house, cooking dinner all fall into one category "gestures" and as it's said, Actions speak louder than words.

I believe love is just honestly being your best self as often as possible and accepting when you fail, then doing the same for others. Accept when they fail, resolve things.

Love is magical and practical, these are not mutual exclusive
 

salxtina

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Lol, I actually know when I'm being read and treated as a fully human being and when I'm not. And when entrenched social structures encourage my treatment as fully-human or not.

No one has any reason to have "faith." And as for my interests, well, why on earth would I share anything so precious with you?
 
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Gonna throw a wrench into all of these conversations but I just wanna know how y’all feel The Gays fit into all of this absolution of binary genders and Love Chemicals As Survival Tools cuz uh
As a known gay
I think most of everything in this thread here is a load of baloney
 

roughdraft

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Lol, I actually know when I'm being read and treated as a fully human being and when I'm not. And when entrenched social structures encourage my treatment as fully-human or not.

No one has any reason to have "faith." And as for my interests, well, why on earth would I share anything so precious with you?

I don't care about your interests, notice I did not *ask* you what your interests are - what i care about is that you want to generalize men as not seeing women as sentinent beings - because as a man, I see women as sentinent beings, so I take offense to the content you're posting here. Does that make more sense?
 
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Would you mind specifying said baloney?
Most if not all of the posts here come from a largely uncritical understanding of gender, and bio-essentialism, that is to say, they think that gender is important because it’s how we know who to procreate with, and most commentary on the differences between the two supposed genders discussed seems like it could’ve been quoted 30, 40 years ago.

The notion of love not actually existing because it’s tantamount to a survival tactic that means nothing deeper than a drive to procreate between man and woman to further the species, completely unravels and is meaningless once you actually include people who cant or won’t procreate, such as gay people, trans people, sterile folks, asexual people, etc.

These kinds of people find something that most folks would call “love,” entirely outside of a capitalist, hetero-normative, cis-normative society, usually without any kind of procreation in mind.
 
D

Deleted member 21429

I closed my account
Love is ... The unconscious thought of anothers well being.

Told to me matter of factly by a 98 year old woman.
~ peace
 

salxtina

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We need a world's-smallest-violin icon up in here...
[Tfw you want to form relationships of love, which REQUIRES JUSTICE, with people who've been marginalized in a way you haven't, but it ~hurts too much~ to hear about common forms that objectification takes 😿😿😿]
 
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salxtina

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Anyway. As we all know. If we love someone who's faced a kind of exploitation that we haven't. Then we LISTEN TO THEM, about how common and structurally encouraged it is. And we put EFFORT into demonstrating, with our ACTIONS, that we won't treat them that way, and won't turn a blind eye when it's happening. Instead of whining about how *harsh* they sound when they talk about it. Actually that's, like, way before you ever get to love - that's really just basic decency.
 

WyldLyfe

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All is Mind.

This is kinda a interesting quote, yea people have said the all is mind, everything or things that manifest in this "physical" world (plane of effects) must first exist in the mind (plane of causality) but what about trees and rocks and natural things whos mind did these come from? the quote all is mind can also be used by some to mean perspective all is perspective or perception I mean.. but perception is not reality, the goal is to align perception with reality to be able to perceive it correctly, even if that does mean perception is reality, it is to an extent yea, but if someone believes they can jump off a cliff an fly but they don't have the ability too then its out of alignment and wrong, there are natural laws in the universe that do not care about your beliefs or what you think, and still stand regardless. Also im not saying that human beings are not capable of understanding an working with these laws or even having "super natural" abilities.. im just mentioning them, just chatting.
 
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