1. Not like it changes anything, but we are obligated to inform you that we are using cookies - so, we just did. Learn More.
  2. If you're new to the world of underground travel, you should check out The Anarchist's Guide to Travel! This 243 page book is a how-2 manual of everything you need to know about exploring the world through hitchhiking, train hopping, bike touring, rubber tramping, sailing, and more! Included in this book are instructions on how to survive on the road (gear, food, money, etc) and answers all of the most common questions we get here on StP in one easy reference. Save yourself hours of searching the forums while still supporting the StP community! Click here for more information!

    Dismiss Notice
  3. Hey you! Yeah, we see you there, lurking! Well, this notice is just to let you know that there's several sections of the website that are available to members only! You're missing out on a lot of stuff by not signing up for an account! It's free, so what have you got to lose?
    Dismiss Notice

How "love" is a illusion

Discussion in 'Sex & Relationships' started by William Howard 2, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    Richard Dawkins -
    “Life is matter and only matter. We are survival machines — robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules of DNA known as genes. The only purpose of life is DNA survival: a person is nothing more than DNA’s way of making more DNA like itself.”

    I just spent about 4 days sifting through research on data collected from dating sites. It was a good eye opener for me. It shows just how truly animalistic and false we all really are.

    Oh I shouldn't say false... Courtship rituals (called by humans "dating") selects for cognitive ability. If I want to fuck a girl, for instance, I can't just walk up and stick it in. On no, that only selects for physical strength. A man must undergo strict rules of engagement. Like a game, weeding out the ones who cant play. Darwin wrote some interesting notes on this in Descent of Man - woman are the gate keepers to evolution.

    But I digress... It's really a wonderful science. Did you know they coined a saying? "10℅ of the guys get 90℅ of the women (on dating sites)." Alpha males don't exist? Ugh huh...

    But you know what? This is all just nature's schemes. It's the Bell Curve - nature selection for extremes as the engine of change. What humans call "love" then must just be a aggregate of a bunch of selection mechanisms all veiled by that name.

    Nature places her spell upon Man's mind
    Like a magician who distracts to conceal her designs

    As the poem goes..

    Oh I could go on and on... But what's the point?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Stupid Stupid x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Odin

    Odin ANTISOLIPSIST
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,054
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Umbra Animus
    My Website(s):
    Ratings:
    +2,528 / -15
    Such a pessimistic view.... shit...

    What about the seahorse??
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Gaucho Deluxe

    Gaucho Deluxe Can't get enough of the site

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    974
    Address:
    Denver, CO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +1,049 / -33
    yea thats like only if your looking at it from a physical aspect, which sadly is very much the way our society is geared.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Odin

    Odin ANTISOLIPSIST
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,054
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Umbra Animus
    My Website(s):
    Ratings:
    +2,528 / -15


    Life is mind... and only mind... we are imagination fluctuations gossamer vectors of force n ether blindly reproducing the selfish projected ego of a mad god sleeping at the center of a creation that never will exist as long it always will.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Epic Epic x 2
  5. meatcomputer

    meatcomputer Appreciated Participator

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    56
    Occupation:
    Fabricator
    Address:
    Hatfield, MA, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    My Website(s):
    Ratings:
    +69 / -0
    just-a-day-in-may-11.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 3
    • Epic Epic x 1
  6. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    Oh good I'm glad to see those enchanted by Nature rush in to her defense. To describe or possess her?

    Yes that classic stock argument "all things mind". Nous, as Aristotle says "the FIRST mover" (and hence not anymore). But what does it matter if it's all mind or not? It's all lustful, hungry! For what?

    See me now, and behold eternal fire!
    All consuming lust that all creation aspires!
    Wroth through with turmoil and pain
    Laying waste to be another’s gain

    Hear me now! My sermon of woe and wrought
    That gods and men with spilled blood so fought:

    The passage of time corrodes and decays
    All consuming fires set to Man's morays
    The fire that burns the world forever new
    Laying waste to what Man thought was true

    Of good and evil its as if they are the same
    The struggle of predator and prey is but a game
    Formed by necessity to play in their own way
    Being different in only what creatures they slay


    Oh but what a coincidence for a academic aristocrat to claim kinship with divinity! As all the others have before and after him. "I think, just like God, so I'm a divine mediator between the filthy irrational stupid peasants and the rational thinking creator. Now bow down, slave".

    Oh Gaucho, how else are you to see your fellow potential sperm donor if not with your physical eyes? Gaging and weighing that wonderful cost to benefit ratio the Human monkeys so love?

    But I'm drunk. If only people could see that machinery at work! But it has to be this way. There has to be a tension of ideologies. Even this is staged for evolution...
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • Epic x 1
    • Useful x 1
    • Stupid x 1
  7. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    Hope you don't mind my poems. It seems so fitting to attack Love using its own weapons
     
  8. palmazon

    palmazon Celebrated Poster
    StP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    123
    Occupation:
    word-mincer
    Address:
    La Habra, CA, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +160 / -3
    Agreeing with your premise - Love is an illusion - is it good? Meaning, does this illusion provide comfort/refuge/relief or whatever it is your desperate soul seeks?
     
  9. palmazon

    palmazon Celebrated Poster
    StP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    123
    Occupation:
    word-mincer
    Address:
    La Habra, CA, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +160 / -3
    Incidentally, a moray is a type of eel...
     
  10. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    The Germans have a wonderful noun in their language, Weltschmerz – the mental depression or apathy caused by comparison of the actual state of the world with an ideal state. So I say let’s not teach each other fantastical mythologies about an ideal love.

    What I can see it’s a numbers game – probability. Sure, one out of a hundred people do end up living within the illusion of love, and for them, I’m sure the illusion brings them joy and comfort. But these are the lucky few blessed by chance (How many people truly find a “soul mate”?). For the rest of the planet we are woken up to the reality of it – conflict and COMPETITION, as Darwin so loved to say. So I would have to say no, the illusion brings only pain except for the very very few blessed by beauty, environment, genetics, or chance.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  11. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    it's all of history and past cultures.

    Hum how many Greeks died at Priam's gates to take back Helen?

    There is a interesting book I read back in the day. It was a collection of all the investigations of the Catholic Church of sexual misdeeds during the medieval period. Oh so much lust! The whole system was falling apart. 1000 years later we are not any different
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    Oh yes and my favorite story of lust - from the Old Testament! That of king David sending his own soldier to his death in "service to his country" so David can pork his super hot widow Bathsheba. How many wives did David have? 8? 10?

    Yes! Let's give all the women to our alpha males! Within time ALL the population will have their superior DNA. Us? The peasants? The weak? The broken? We die. But this is the way it has to be.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. palmazon

    palmazon Celebrated Poster
    StP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    123
    Occupation:
    word-mincer
    Address:
    La Habra, CA, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +160 / -3
    [we] - the bungled and the botched, as referred to by another of those brilliant Germans...
     
    #13 palmazon, Dec 10, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  14. Hillbilly Castro

    Hillbilly Castro Sir Posts a Lot

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    473
    Occupation:
    Tramp
    Address:
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +1,057 / -10
    Dawkins should be shot....
    we aren't goddamn machines, dealing with "resources"...
    the reason you don't force your cock on an unwilling woman isn't because "the gene you'd propagate would only select for physical strength"..... it's because if you're an asshole, no one wants to help you, or worse, everyone wants to kill you. More than that, you don't do it because a woman ain't just a goddamn orfice, unless you're a killer robot (or temporarily made into a robot by a machine-like culture, in which case, get help)
    not to open up a nasty can of worms with that one..
    but the machine-like view dawkins has is irresponsible.. it plays into the cosmic pessimissm of the young, sexually frustrated male, possibly suicidal... it's composed of the smegma of Descarte, soaked into the carpets of Oxford's dormitories and smeared onto the term papers of spiritually retarded anglos who never had their heart flutter when eyeing a crow or a cricket. He's in it for pageviews likes and shares, an existential poverty pimp for the ultra-domesticated patrons of BDSM clubs that smell like piss and office-rat pencil-pusher masturbation tears.... where university department chairs pay good money to be whipped and referred to as a "human resource" by big-boned faux pochahontas mannequins...

    good god, just thinking of all those milquetoast cynical pieces of university excrement makes me pine for another beer...
    and pine for a world where the ego-trip of saying "I know absolutely" doesn't completely fuck up any sense of our larger-than-life origins or mythos...
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Epic Epic x 2
  15. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    oh you. I was wondering when those lovely triggered moralists would show up. HA your proving my point! That anger you get... That "righteous indignation"... its all so designed to enforce the games oh you archaic religious throwbacks to stoning men.

    But I can't be mad though at you. Your just doing what your designed to do with that monkey brain - feel rage. Man needs people like you, otherwise evolution has no engines..

    The old man lusts upon youth in her prime
    Desire denied only by conventions of time
    Any fool knows that love must be hard won
    For no struggle at all would leave all life undone

    To every wealth there is a poverty unknown
    And every poverty lies wealth that is thrown
    A beautiful maid so stuns with her flesh
    Forcing the men to grow minds that enmesh
     
    • Stupid Stupid x 2
    • Epic Epic x 1
  16. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    Oh and not to mention the anti academic garbage going on now... Yes. Those NASTY universities! What do THEY know? The geneticists and sociologists... They now NOTHING. But I do right?

    You accuse them of Absolutism but your making absolute statements... oh you.

    Well maybe next time you get sick, you should go to your neighbor for help! Haha
     
  17. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    But really... This has nothing to do with Dawkins. The institutions/behaviors that protect female preference goes back to Darwin – sexual selection. It’s also cross confirmed by decades of research by anthropologists, biologists, geneticists, social sciences, ect. Ect.

    Look at the bigger picture and not pick straw mans
     
    • Stupid Stupid x 2
  18. Beegod Santana

    Beegod Santana STP Homebum

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    609
    Occupation:
    New-Age Migrant Worker
    Address:
    Atlanta, GA, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +481 / -25
    While I disagree with pretty much every generalization here I just wanna put my two cents in. Ultimately we are biological machines dealing with resources but part of our programming is ideology and emotion. Even if love is just a numbers game determined by some kinda DNA lottery it doesn't mean the feelings those individuals have is valueless, or that love itself has no value from an evolutionary/societal stand point. Love is a very real emotion very much so tied to not only our species' survival, but also our quality of life.

    Basically, I think you're both right and wrong.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. OP
    OP
    William Howard 2

    William Howard 2 One of the Regulars

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    Camdenton, MO, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +99 / -9
    Yes I tried to cover that idea already. Guess people don't like bad poetry? I was being inconsistent though by committing the naturalistic fallacy - confusing an "is" and an "aught".

    Just curious, what generations did you think I failed at? I won't be a jerk. I'm gonna lay of the booze and just take a break from people for awhile... Just want something to think about.
     
  20. ScumRag

    ScumRag Appreciated Participator
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Address:
    San Diego, CA, United States
    Country:
    View on map:
    Ratings:
    +52 / -2

    Clearly, the majority of the respondents are under 40 years of age & haven't yet experienced the level of rejection you speak of. I'm there, bro. Feel ya.