How "love" is a illusion

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#1
Richard Dawkins -
“Life is matter and only matter. We are survival machines — robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules of DNA known as genes. The only purpose of life is DNA survival: a person is nothing more than DNA’s way of making more DNA like itself.”

I just spent about 4 days sifting through research on data collected from dating sites. It was a good eye opener for me. It shows just how truly animalistic and false we all really are.

Oh I shouldn't say false... Courtship rituals (called by humans "dating") selects for cognitive ability. If I want to fuck a girl, for instance, I can't just walk up and stick it in. On no, that only selects for physical strength. A man must undergo strict rules of engagement. Like a game, weeding out the ones who cant play. Darwin wrote some interesting notes on this in Descent of Man - woman are the gate keepers to evolution.

But I digress... It's really a wonderful science. Did you know they coined a saying? "10℅ of the guys get 90℅ of the women (on dating sites)." Alpha males don't exist? Ugh huh...

But you know what? This is all just nature's schemes. It's the Bell Curve - nature selection for extremes as the engine of change. What humans call "love" then must just be a aggregate of a bunch of selection mechanisms all veiled by that name.

Nature places her spell upon Man's mind
Like a magician who distracts to conceal her designs

As the poem goes..

Oh I could go on and on... But what's the point?
 

Odin

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#4
“Life is matter and only matter. We are survival machines —


Life is mind... and only mind... we are imagination fluctuations gossamer vectors of force n ether blindly reproducing the selfish projected ego of a mad god sleeping at the center of a creation that never will exist as long it always will.
 
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#6
Oh good I'm glad to see those enchanted by Nature rush in to her defense. To describe or possess her?

Yes that classic stock argument "all things mind". Nous, as Aristotle says "the FIRST mover" (and hence not anymore). But what does it matter if it's all mind or not? It's all lustful, hungry! For what?

See me now, and behold eternal fire!
All consuming lust that all creation aspires!
Wroth through with turmoil and pain
Laying waste to be another’s gain

Hear me now! My sermon of woe and wrought
That gods and men with spilled blood so fought:

The passage of time corrodes and decays
All consuming fires set to Man's morays
The fire that burns the world forever new
Laying waste to what Man thought was true

Of good and evil its as if they are the same
The struggle of predator and prey is but a game
Formed by necessity to play in their own way
Being different in only what creatures they slay


Oh but what a coincidence for a academic aristocrat to claim kinship with divinity! As all the others have before and after him. "I think, just like God, so I'm a divine mediator between the filthy irrational stupid peasants and the rational thinking creator. Now bow down, slave".

Oh Gaucho, how else are you to see your fellow potential sperm donor if not with your physical eyes? Gaging and weighing that wonderful cost to benefit ratio the Human monkeys so love?

But I'm drunk. If only people could see that machinery at work! But it has to be this way. There has to be a tension of ideologies. Even this is staged for evolution...
 

palmazon

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#8
Agreeing with your premise - Love is an illusion - is it good? Meaning, does this illusion provide comfort/refuge/relief or whatever it is your desperate soul seeks?
 

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#9
Incidentally, a moray is a type of eel...
 
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#10
Agreeing with your premise - Love is an illusion - is it good? Meaning, does this illusion provide comfort/refuge/relief or whatever it is your desperate soul seeks?
The Germans have a wonderful noun in their language, Weltschmerz – the mental depression or apathy caused by comparison of the actual state of the world with an ideal state. So I say let’s not teach each other fantastical mythologies about an ideal love.

What I can see it’s a numbers game – probability. Sure, one out of a hundred people do end up living within the illusion of love, and for them, I’m sure the illusion brings them joy and comfort. But these are the lucky few blessed by chance (How many people truly find a “soul mate”?). For the rest of the planet we are woken up to the reality of it – conflict and COMPETITION, as Darwin so loved to say. So I would have to say no, the illusion brings only pain except for the very very few blessed by beauty, environment, genetics, or chance.
 
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#11
yea thats like only if your looking at it from a physical aspect, which sadly is very much the way our society is geared.
it's all of history and past cultures.

Hum how many Greeks died at Priam's gates to take back Helen?

There is a interesting book I read back in the day. It was a collection of all the investigations of the Catholic Church of sexual misdeeds during the medieval period. Oh so much lust! The whole system was falling apart. 1000 years later we are not any different
 
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#12
Oh yes and my favorite story of lust - from the Old Testament! That of king David sending his own soldier to his death in "service to his country" so David can pork his super hot widow Bathsheba. How many wives did David have? 8? 10?

Yes! Let's give all the women to our alpha males! Within time ALL the population will have their superior DNA. Us? The peasants? The weak? The broken? We die. But this is the way it has to be.
 

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#13
[we] - the bungled and the botched, as referred to by another of those brilliant Germans...
 
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#14
Dawkins should be shot....
we aren't goddamn machines, dealing with "resources"...
the reason you don't force your cock on an unwilling woman isn't because "the gene you'd propagate would only select for physical strength"..... it's because if you're an asshole, no one wants to help you, or worse, everyone wants to kill you. More than that, you don't do it because a woman ain't just a goddamn orfice, unless you're a killer robot (or temporarily made into a robot by a machine-like culture, in which case, get help)
not to open up a nasty can of worms with that one..
but the machine-like view dawkins has is irresponsible.. it plays into the cosmic pessimissm of the young, sexually frustrated male, possibly suicidal... it's composed of the smegma of Descarte, soaked into the carpets of Oxford's dormitories and smeared onto the term papers of spiritually retarded anglos who never had their heart flutter when eyeing a crow or a cricket. He's in it for pageviews likes and shares, an existential poverty pimp for the ultra-domesticated patrons of BDSM clubs that smell like piss and office-rat pencil-pusher masturbation tears.... where university department chairs pay good money to be whipped and referred to as a "human resource" by big-boned faux pochahontas mannequins...

good god, just thinking of all those milquetoast cynical pieces of university excrement makes me pine for another beer...
and pine for a world where the ego-trip of saying "I know absolutely" doesn't completely fuck up any sense of our larger-than-life origins or mythos...
 
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#15
...
the reason you don't force your cock on an unwilling woman isn't because "the gene you'd propagate would only select for physical strength"..... it's because if you're an asshole, no one wants to help you, or worse, everyone wants to kill you.
oh you. I was wondering when those lovely triggered moralists would show up. HA your proving my point! That anger you get... That "righteous indignation"... its all so designed to enforce the games oh you archaic religious throwbacks to stoning men.

But I can't be mad though at you. Your just doing what your designed to do with that monkey brain - feel rage. Man needs people like you, otherwise evolution has no engines..

The old man lusts upon youth in her prime
Desire denied only by conventions of time
Any fool knows that love must be hard won
For no struggle at all would leave all life undone

To every wealth there is a poverty unknown
And every poverty lies wealth that is thrown
A beautiful maid so stuns with her flesh
Forcing the men to grow minds that enmesh
 
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#16
Oh and not to mention the anti academic garbage going on now... Yes. Those NASTY universities! What do THEY know? The geneticists and sociologists... They now NOTHING. But I do right?

You accuse them of Absolutism but your making absolute statements... oh you.

Well maybe next time you get sick, you should go to your neighbor for help! Haha
 
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#17
But really... This has nothing to do with Dawkins. The institutions/behaviors that protect female preference goes back to Darwin – sexual selection. It’s also cross confirmed by decades of research by anthropologists, biologists, geneticists, social sciences, ect. Ect.

Look at the bigger picture and not pick straw mans
 
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#18
While I disagree with pretty much every generalization here I just wanna put my two cents in. Ultimately we are biological machines dealing with resources but part of our programming is ideology and emotion. Even if love is just a numbers game determined by some kinda DNA lottery it doesn't mean the feelings those individuals have is valueless, or that love itself has no value from an evolutionary/societal stand point. Love is a very real emotion very much so tied to not only our species' survival, but also our quality of life.

Basically, I think you're both right and wrong.
 
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#19
Even if love is just a numbers game determined by some kinda DNA lottery it doesn't mean the feelings those individuals have is valueless, or that love itself has no value from an evolutionary/societal stand point.
Yes I tried to cover that idea already. Guess people don't like bad poetry? I was being inconsistent though by committing the naturalistic fallacy - confusing an "is" and an "aught".

Just curious, what generations did you think I failed at? I won't be a jerk. I'm gonna lay of the booze and just take a break from people for awhile... Just want something to think about.
 

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#20
Richard Dawkins -
“Life is matter and only matter. We are survival machines — robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules of DNA known as genes. The only purpose of life is DNA survival: a person is nothing more than DNA’s way of making more DNA like itself.”

I just spent about 4 days sifting through research on data collected from dating sites. It was a good eye opener for me. It shows just how truly animalistic and false we all really are.

Oh I shouldn't say false... Courtship rituals (called by humans "dating") selects for cognitive ability. If I want to fuck a girl, for instance, I can't just walk up and stick it in. On no, that only selects for physical strength. A man must undergo strict rules of engagement. Like a game, weeding out the ones who cant play. Darwin wrote some interesting notes on this in Descent of Man - woman are the gate keepers to evolution.

But I digress... It's really a wonderful science. Did you know they coined a saying? "10℅ of the guys get 90℅ of the women (on dating sites)." Alpha males don't exist? Ugh huh...

But you know what? This is all just nature's schemes. It's the Bell Curve - nature selection for extremes as the engine of change. What humans call "love" then must just be a aggregate of a bunch of selection mechanisms all veiled by that name.

Nature places her spell upon Man's mind
Like a magician who distracts to conceal her designs

As the poem goes..

Oh I could go on and on... But what's the point?

Clearly, the majority of the respondents are under 40 years of age & haven't yet experienced the level of rejection you speak of. I'm there, bro. Feel ya.
 

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