How "love" is a illusion (1 Viewer)

William Howard 2

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Richard Dawkins -
“Life is matter and only matter. We are survival machines — robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules of DNA known as genes. The only purpose of life is DNA survival: a person is nothing more than DNA’s way of making more DNA like itself.”

I just spent about 4 days sifting through research on data collected from dating sites. It was a good eye opener for me. It shows just how truly animalistic and false we all really are.

Oh I shouldn't say false... Courtship rituals (called by humans "dating") selects for cognitive ability. If I want to fuck a girl, for instance, I can't just walk up and stick it in. On no, that only selects for physical strength. A man must undergo strict rules of engagement. Like a game, weeding out the ones who cant play. Darwin wrote some interesting notes on this in Descent of Man - woman are the gate keepers to evolution.

But I digress... It's really a wonderful science. Did you know they coined a saying? "10℅ of the guys get 90℅ of the women (on dating sites)." Alpha males don't exist? Ugh huh...

But you know what? This is all just nature's schemes. It's the Bell Curve - nature selection for extremes as the engine of change. What humans call "love" then must just be a aggregate of a bunch of selection mechanisms all veiled by that name.

Nature places her spell upon Man's mind
Like a magician who distracts to conceal her designs

As the poem goes..

Oh I could go on and on... But what's the point?
 
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Odin

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“Life is matter and only matter. We are survival machines —


Life is mind... and only mind... we are imagination fluctuations gossamer vectors of force n ether blindly reproducing the selfish projected ego of a mad god sleeping at the center of a creation that never will exist as long it always will.
 
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William Howard 2

William Howard 2

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Oh good I'm glad to see those enchanted by Nature rush in to her defense. To describe or possess her?

Yes that classic stock argument "all things mind". Nous, as Aristotle says "the FIRST mover" (and hence not anymore). But what does it matter if it's all mind or not? It's all lustful, hungry! For what?

See me now, and behold eternal fire!
All consuming lust that all creation aspires!
Wroth through with turmoil and pain
Laying waste to be another’s gain

Hear me now! My sermon of woe and wrought
That gods and men with spilled blood so fought:

The passage of time corrodes and decays
All consuming fires set to Man's morays
The fire that burns the world forever new
Laying waste to what Man thought was true

Of good and evil its as if they are the same
The struggle of predator and prey is but a game
Formed by necessity to play in their own way
Being different in only what creatures they slay


Oh but what a coincidence for a academic aristocrat to claim kinship with divinity! As all the others have before and after him. "I think, just like God, so I'm a divine mediator between the filthy irrational stupid peasants and the rational thinking creator. Now bow down, slave".

Oh Gaucho, how else are you to see your fellow potential sperm donor if not with your physical eyes? Gaging and weighing that wonderful cost to benefit ratio the Human monkeys so love?

But I'm drunk. If only people could see that machinery at work! But it has to be this way. There has to be a tension of ideologies. Even this is staged for evolution...
 
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William Howard 2

William Howard 2

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Agreeing with your premise - Love is an illusion - is it good? Meaning, does this illusion provide comfort/refuge/relief or whatever it is your desperate soul seeks?
The Germans have a wonderful noun in their language, Weltschmerz – the mental depression or apathy caused by comparison of the actual state of the world with an ideal state. So I say let’s not teach each other fantastical mythologies about an ideal love.

What I can see it’s a numbers game – probability. Sure, one out of a hundred people do end up living within the illusion of love, and for them, I’m sure the illusion brings them joy and comfort. But these are the lucky few blessed by chance (How many people truly find a “soul mate”?). For the rest of the planet we are woken up to the reality of it – conflict and COMPETITION, as Darwin so loved to say. So I would have to say no, the illusion brings only pain except for the very very few blessed by beauty, environment, genetics, or chance.
 
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William Howard 2

William Howard 2

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yea thats like only if your looking at it from a physical aspect, which sadly is very much the way our society is geared.
it's all of history and past cultures.

Hum how many Greeks died at Priam's gates to take back Helen?

There is a interesting book I read back in the day. It was a collection of all the investigations of the Catholic Church of sexual misdeeds during the medieval period. Oh so much lust! The whole system was falling apart. 1000 years later we are not any different
 
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William Howard 2

William Howard 2

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Oh yes and my favorite story of lust - from the Old Testament! That of king David sending his own soldier to his death in "service to his country" so David can pork his super hot widow Bathsheba. How many wives did David have? 8? 10?

Yes! Let's give all the women to our alpha males! Within time ALL the population will have their superior DNA. Us? The peasants? The weak? The broken? We die. But this is the way it has to be.
 
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Dawkins should be shot....
we aren't goddamn machines, dealing with "resources"...
the reason you don't force your cock on an unwilling woman isn't because "the gene you'd propagate would only select for physical strength"..... it's because if you're an asshole, no one wants to help you, or worse, everyone wants to kill you. More than that, you don't do it because a woman ain't just a goddamn orfice, unless you're a killer robot (or temporarily made into a robot by a machine-like culture, in which case, get help)
not to open up a nasty can of worms with that one..
but the machine-like view dawkins has is irresponsible.. it plays into the cosmic pessimissm of the young, sexually frustrated male, possibly suicidal... it's composed of the smegma of Descarte, soaked into the carpets of Oxford's dormitories and smeared onto the term papers of spiritually retarded anglos who never had their heart flutter when eyeing a crow or a cricket. He's in it for pageviews likes and shares, an existential poverty pimp for the ultra-domesticated patrons of BDSM clubs that smell like piss and office-rat pencil-pusher masturbation tears.... where university department chairs pay good money to be whipped and referred to as a "human resource" by big-boned faux pochahontas mannequins...

good god, just thinking of all those milquetoast cynical pieces of university excrement makes me pine for another beer...
and pine for a world where the ego-trip of saying "I know absolutely" doesn't completely fuck up any sense of our larger-than-life origins or mythos...
 
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William Howard 2

William Howard 2

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...
the reason you don't force your cock on an unwilling woman isn't because "the gene you'd propagate would only select for physical strength"..... it's because if you're an asshole, no one wants to help you, or worse, everyone wants to kill you.
oh you. I was wondering when those lovely triggered moralists would show up. HA your proving my point! That anger you get... That "righteous indignation"... its all so designed to enforce the games oh you archaic religious throwbacks to stoning men.

But I can't be mad though at you. Your just doing what your designed to do with that monkey brain - feel rage. Man needs people like you, otherwise evolution has no engines..

The old man lusts upon youth in her prime
Desire denied only by conventions of time
Any fool knows that love must be hard won
For no struggle at all would leave all life undone

To every wealth there is a poverty unknown
And every poverty lies wealth that is thrown
A beautiful maid so stuns with her flesh
Forcing the men to grow minds that enmesh
 
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William Howard 2

William Howard 2

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Oh and not to mention the anti academic garbage going on now... Yes. Those NASTY universities! What do THEY know? The geneticists and sociologists... They now NOTHING. But I do right?

You accuse them of Absolutism but your making absolute statements... oh you.

Well maybe next time you get sick, you should go to your neighbor for help! Haha
 
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William Howard 2

William Howard 2

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But really... This has nothing to do with Dawkins. The institutions/behaviors that protect female preference goes back to Darwin – sexual selection. It’s also cross confirmed by decades of research by anthropologists, biologists, geneticists, social sciences, ect. Ect.

Look at the bigger picture and not pick straw mans
 
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While I disagree with pretty much every generalization here I just wanna put my two cents in. Ultimately we are biological machines dealing with resources but part of our programming is ideology and emotion. Even if love is just a numbers game determined by some kinda DNA lottery it doesn't mean the feelings those individuals have is valueless, or that love itself has no value from an evolutionary/societal stand point. Love is a very real emotion very much so tied to not only our species' survival, but also our quality of life.

Basically, I think you're both right and wrong.
 
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William Howard 2

William Howard 2

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Even if love is just a numbers game determined by some kinda DNA lottery it doesn't mean the feelings those individuals have is valueless, or that love itself has no value from an evolutionary/societal stand point.
Yes I tried to cover that idea already. Guess people don't like bad poetry? I was being inconsistent though by committing the naturalistic fallacy - confusing an "is" and an "aught".

Just curious, what generations did you think I failed at? I won't be a jerk. I'm gonna lay of the booze and just take a break from people for awhile... Just want something to think about.
 

ScumRag

me, hellarity, oak, ca. about 2006
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Richard Dawkins -
“Life is matter and only matter. We are survival machines — robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules of DNA known as genes. The only purpose of life is DNA survival: a person is nothing more than DNA’s way of making more DNA like itself.”

I just spent about 4 days sifting through research on data collected from dating sites. It was a good eye opener for me. It shows just how truly animalistic and false we all really are.

Oh I shouldn't say false... Courtship rituals (called by humans "dating") selects for cognitive ability. If I want to fuck a girl, for instance, I can't just walk up and stick it in. On no, that only selects for physical strength. A man must undergo strict rules of engagement. Like a game, weeding out the ones who cant play. Darwin wrote some interesting notes on this in Descent of Man - woman are the gate keepers to evolution.

But I digress... It's really a wonderful science. Did you know they coined a saying? "10℅ of the guys get 90℅ of the women (on dating sites)." Alpha males don't exist? Ugh huh...

But you know what? This is all just nature's schemes. It's the Bell Curve - nature selection for extremes as the engine of change. What humans call "love" then must just be a aggregate of a bunch of selection mechanisms all veiled by that name.

Nature places her spell upon Man's mind
Like a magician who distracts to conceal her designs

As the poem goes..

Oh I could go on and on... But what's the point?

Clearly, the majority of the respondents are under 40 years of age & haven't yet experienced the level of rejection you speak of. I'm there, bro. Feel ya.
 

Forrest

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Life is mind... and only mind... we are imagination fluctuations gossamer vectors of force n ether blindly reproducing the selfish projected ego of a mad god sleeping at the center of a creation that never will exist as long it always will.
AMEN
All is Mind.
 

Beebers

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6100 Westchester Park Drive, College Park Maryland 20740
My wife just walked out on me, so call me biased. I have always had my own peculiar, idiosyncratic view of human behavior, though.

Anybody in here like Julian Jaynes? He might be gaining in pop awareness from that cable tv series version of Westworld. It was a cheesy movie in the 70s, ignorant young people.

Anyway, and I'll follow up on this if anybody cares because this is a drive by posting; a big part of the way people act or choose to act has to be largely hidden from their conscious process. We choose to do things because of drives or impulses that are always there and acting on us, but we are only aware of them when they are acute. We can be led by that, trapped, herded, caught. And we are.

The majority of men are probably alone more often than the majority of women. So men look for women in vulnerable states; they hover, they wait, and they take advantage of vulnerability.

Women take advantage of men, too; by collectively behaving a certain way either in reaction to men's behavior or out of their own desires, they force men into competition with each other whether they consciously want to do that or not; their choices reward competitive and adversarial male behavior toward other males.

The whole socioeconomic reality of any culture, but especially the west, can in my view be traced to an abusive sexually rooted mindset.

Look at the structure of western suburban life and compare it to the medieval separation of the landed class and the peasantry. Modern "reproductives" in our evil ant colony construct the institutions of harm and repression a lot of the people here hate- police, real estate shit, the educational system- all to give their own offspring an advantage. The divisions between rich and poor and haves and have nots look a lot to me like a feudal castle, with soccer yuppie parents on the inside of a socioeconomic mafia and people who have been excluded from that on the outside. People are not only conditioned to think they need wealth in order to bring up children, the society ACTIVELY harms and abuses their children if they don't have that wealth. It's the same malicious neglect that has prisoners attacking one another and making their own situation worse- that is encouraged, that is the desire of the institution.

If you spend 30k a year sending your kids to a private school, wouldn't you be happy if kids in the public schools were getting hurt, having terrible experiences? It would justify the expense to you, make your decisions seem more rational and good. Come to think of it, how many school shootings have been at private schools?

I want to have a family. More than anything, I want to be a part of a family. Both because in my heart I know I am a valid human being and I have the right to want a full human life and because I know I have something to offer someone and future generations through my children that should exist in this world. But any woman looking at me has this barrier to seeing me that way, from the culture and from the real obstacles that she would face bringing up children with me. It would be tantamount to accepting in her imagination that her children would be born as lepers, practically. There would be real things that would help nurture them or help them in life that I could never help them get access to, that other people would have. She has a right to want those advantages for her offspring. But, how do her choices affect reality, in that space? I think that is where the system is most horrifically gamed.

Blah blah blah, western notion of romantic love is the lynchpin of abusive capitalist society, yadda yadda yadda. A marxist utopia would have to be an asexual eunuch society, etc. Please subscribe to my newsletter for details.
 

Dagonshucks

Pilgrim
Joined
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Messages
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Milwaukee, United States
Dorothy Parker may not be as old as Aristotle, but I'm with a dumb guy because she has convinced me it makes my grandma happy.

"Never love a simple lad,

Guard against a wise,
Shun a timid youth and sad,

Hide from haunted eyes.

Never hold your heart in pain

For an evil-doer,

Never flip it down the lane

To a gifted wooer.

Never love a loving son,

Nor a sheep astray,
Gather up your sheets and run

From a tender way.

Never give away a tear,

Never toss and pine,
Should you heed my words, my dear,

You're no blood of mine!"

-"For A Favorite Granddaughter"

I love Dorothy Parker.
 

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