Why is the world so divided? (1 Viewer)

Hudson

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I understand the basic reasons, power, greed, land and resources.

Why is the world so full of fuckery for so long? What can we do to resist the bullshit?
 
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Coywolf

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@Hudson I mean, are you talking about like, recently? Or like, since modern day society became a thing?

Human beings (particularly white anglo-saxon ones) are probably one of the worst species to exist on this planet....ever.

I really wish the whole 'hunter-gatherer Nomadic' culture would have persisted throughout history. The age of agriculture was the beginning of the end of this planet.

As you can probably tell, I care more for the Planet than I do for Humanity. This is why I am engaging in, and promoting Pagan-type belief systems. Early teachings that consider the relationship between humanity and the land sacred. To treat everything with respect, and only take as much as you need. To show humility, and appreciation for what you receive. To rely more on trade/barter rather than a currency.

Some causes in my mind, of the fuckery? Consumerism, Capitalism, the concept of money (not trade), Organized Religion, Class-Cast systems, the lack of knowledge of basic human survival skills...which is purposefully implemented to increase reliance on government and corporations.....small buisness is fucking gone after the COVID thing is over.

I have been reading this book, 'God is Red' which is about the history of Native American oppression and assimilation into 'American' society....it also talks about how NA's view spirituality and 'God' compared to christianity, and how fucked up it was for their people to have to encounter white colonialism.

It relates alot to this thread. It has really cast a very dark shadow on this country for me.

How are we going to fix it? We cant. Short of an ACTUAL global semi-extinction event (next one will be climate change), there is no way in hell we are going to be able to get along with one another enough to enact global, or even National, change.

I mean, look at the last 4 years...we actually succeeded in getting WORSE, we almost damn near reinstituted fascism for god sake.

It's on the individuals now, it's on everyone to make their own changes, IMO. That will be a saving grace, if there is any. Use less, live more, dont accept the reality that is given to you, make your own.

I hate hearing people say, 'oh man, I really wanted 'X' in life, but I'm stuck with 'Y'....whaddya gonna do? That's life.'

Nah. Fuck that. That, right there, is exactly what this current system wants to hear, to cement and further its grip on humanity.

We also need to further our fight for equality and human rights. They are slowly running out of ways to keep us bigoted/divided as a species.

Oh. And stop having kids. People can stop having so many fucking kids. Seriously. I just heard a story about a woman in Idaho who is on her 12th. That should be illegal.

Woof....that was alot. Rant over.
 
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Because everyone's an asshole... Just kidding, because .oo1% of the population has created a system where they not only stay rich, but actually become massively richer by doing absolutely nothing and it fits their interests to have the rest of us fighting each other instead of demanding a 90%tax rate on capital gains.
 

Maki40

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There is nothing you can do about it. You can't control the world around you but you do control yourself. This is why I became a hobo. It's my way of dealing with this fucked up world. To quote the great George Carlin the planet has been here for billions of years and will be here billions more. WE are fucked!
 

mikepetti76

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In my opinion, we are mostly divided because of the media being controlled by one party. That party don't like free speech. Journalist have become activist.
 

Coywolf

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In my opinion, we are mostly divided because of the media being controlled by one party. That party don't like free speech. Journalist have become activist.

I can see Trump's rhetoric is alive and well. If the media is controlled by one party....how do you explain the difference between NPR and FOX?

And of course many journalists are activists....its called passion, and its made some of the best journalism in the world.

And youre right. That party dont like no free speech. Especially when its comes from women, people of color, people of any other religion besides christianity, LGBTQ people, or immigrants....god damned anti-'murican.
 

mikepetti76

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I can see Trump's rhetoric is alive and well. If the media is controlled by one party....how do you explain the difference between NPR and FOX?

And of course many journalists are activists....its called passion, and its made some of the best journalism in the world.

And youre right. That party dont like no free speech. Especially when its comes from women, people of color, people of any other religion besides christianity, LGBTQ people, or immigrants....god damned anti-'murican.
There isn't much difference between fox and npr nowadays.

Facts make the best journalism in the world, not activism.

I think you might be a bit confused on who is censoring who.
 

Coywolf

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You're high, if you think there isint a difference between those two sources of media.

It seems the only thing that most people who make this arguement believe in are 'alt-facts', not real ones, such as COVID being a hoax, the election was stolen, the deep state is running a child sex trafficking ring, and that 5G turns people gay.

Sure. I'm confused on who is censoring who. I'm 110% for 'alt facts' being laughed at....as I'm laughing now. That isint censorship, that's what the world USED to be like, before the ridiculousness of the last 4 years. People who had sense were able to root out the bullshit, and make it clear that it is what it is....bullshit.

Take everyone talking shit on science recently. Or if someone is an expert in something, they must be deep state...or a 'career politician' or have ulterior motives....that's ridiculous. Since when did we as a species decide we were going to get dumber? That's the true censorship happening right now, if ya ask me.
 

mikepetti76

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You're high, if you think there isint a difference between those two sources of media.

It seems the only thing that most people who make this arguement believe in are 'alt-facts', not real ones, such as COVID being a hoax, the election was stolen, the deep state is running a child sex trafficking ring, and that 5G turns people gay.

Sure. I'm confused on who is censoring who. I'm 110% for 'alt facts' being laughed at....as I'm laughing now. That isint censorship, that's what the world USED to be like, before the ridiculousness of the last 4 years. People who had sense were able to root out the bullshit, and make it clear that it is what it is....bullshit.

Take everyone talking shit on science recently. Or if someone is an expert in something, they must be deep state...or a 'career politician' or have ulterior motives....that's ridiculous. Since when did we as a species decide we were going to get dumber? That's the true censorship happening right now, if ya ask me.
If the 'alt-facts' are not real then why don't they prove them wrong instead of censoring and writing off as conspiracy? There was quite a bit of time and money spent on Russian collusion, General Flynn, impeachment, all without evidence. No censorship for those "alt-facts'.

They talk about the science, but never show what science they are talking about. When you do your own searching for said science you find all kinds of studies showing all different findings. So then you have different conflicting opinions on the subject. Who's right, who's wrong? Probably both. Then you have the powerful people who bring down mandates for everyone, but ignore said mandate for themselves. Are they above the science they are preaching?
 

ali

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What makes you think that facts are being censored? You say that you are doing your own searching and finding all kinds of studies, so where's the censorship here?

It is true that the media does not report on every scientific study under the sun, mostly because most people don't care about the play-by-play of every scientific issue. Most people are not scientists themselves, so all they are looking for is a quick summary - that's what journalists are paid to do. That doesn't mean science isn't still going on, or that publication of the results is being restricted. If a scientific issue is legitimately important to you, and it seems legitimately important to a lot of people, then you are free set up your own media organization to report on it, or lobby an existing media organization to report on it. That's what freedom of the press is all about.

I am sometimes disappointed with how certain media outlets report on topics that I happen to have expert or first-hand knowledge of. Usually I just roll my eyes and move on, because it really doesn't matter that much. Sometimes I write a letter to the editor to ask for better coverage - sometimes it even gets published! Sometimes an outlet starts so lacking in integrity that I just stop reading it all together. That's a great freedom we have in the US, Canada etc that people in countries like China do not enjoy.

I do agree with your basic notion that the media is complicit in making partisanship worse... but I don't think it's because "one party" controls it. Several large publicly traded companies dominate it. That's problematic. I'm not sure what to do about it, though. Maybe break up big media (including social media) and try to re-localize the news? Who would report on global and national issues, then? It's a hard problem.
 
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mikepetti76

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What makes you think that facts are being censored? You say that you are doing your own searching and finding all kinds of studies, so where's the censorship here?

It is true that the media does not report on every scientific study under the sun, mostly because most people don't care about the play-by-play of every scientific issue. Most people are not scientists themselves, so all they are looking for is a quick summary - that's what journalists are paid to do. That doesn't mean science isn't still going on, or that publication of the results is being restricted. If a scientific issue is legitimately important to you, and it seems legitimately important to a lot of people, then you are free set up your own media organization to report on it, or lobby an existing media organization to report on it. That's what freedom of the press is all about.

I am sometimes disappointed with how certain media outlets report on topics that I happen to have expert or first-hand knowledge of. Usually I just roll my eyes and move on, because it really doesn't matter that much. Sometimes I write a letter to the editor to ask for better coverage - sometimes it even gets published! Sometimes an outlet starts so lacking in integrity that I just stop reading it all together. That's a great freedom we have in the US, Canada etc that people in countries like China do not enjoy.

I do agree with your basic notion that the media is complicit in making partisanship worse... but I don't think it's because "one party" controls it. Several large publicly traded companies dominate it. That's problematic. I'm not sure what to do about it, though. Maybe break up big media (including social media) and try to re-localize the news? Who would report on global and national issues, then? It's a hard problem.
How many networks are covering the hearing on election fraud? How many times has the president been on tv recently and networks cut him off or don't show it altogether. Social media is suspending accounts everyday for people just giving their opinion or showing news that don't align with certain politics. That is censorship.

Just because journalist are paid to give you a quick summary doesn't mean they are giving you both sides of the argument to make your own mind up. What they are doing is telling you how to and what to think. Journalist of today are not what they use to be. If you are ok with having the powers that be telling you how to think and what to believe, that's fine too. That is also a freedom you have in this country.

There is a group out there right now that has recorded the CNN 9:00 phone meeting for a couple of months. They are releasing parts of it on a daily biases. It's pretty eye opening and disturbing how they decide what and how they are going to report on for the day.
 

ali

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Why do you think it is so important that all the networks cover "the" (which?) hearing on election fraud? Multiple states have recounted and confirmed their results, in accordance with the law. Many, many lawsuits challenging the results have been thrown out because the plaintiffs have been unable to present any evidence of fraud. There is no story here, aside from the story that as usual Trump is opening a ton of frivolous lawsuits. For many people, this is not interesting or informative news. He's been opening frivolous lawsuits for decades. It's boring.

If you really want to set up a media outlet that reports the play-by-play of every lawsuit Trump opens, you are welcome to do so. Nobody is stopping you.

If you want to claim on social media that the election results are bogus, then you may find your messages flagged. But you are not being flagged because the powers that be are trying to tell you how to think, you are being flagged because you are spreading a lie. There is no evidence that shows widespread election fraud has occurred to the degree that it would change the election result. There is lots of evidence (over 159 million ballots) that shows the actual results are exactly what has been reported by the media.

There might be some things that the media is not reporting accurately, but the results of the election is not one of them.

If you are disturbed by how CNN decides to report the news, then don't watch CNN. It's very simple. Every news room in the country has an editorial team, they all decide how their outlet will report the news. That's not scandalous. That's just how the media works. As I already said - the media doesn't have the time to report every detail of every story, they are being paid to decide on the top stories and summarize. Obviously every media outlet will have its own bias, that is not a surprise to anyone. Editorial teams making decisions about what to report on is not censorship, it's just the business of reporting.
 

mikepetti76

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Why do you think it is so important that all the networks cover "the" (which?) hearing on election fraud? Multiple states have recounted and confirmed their results, in accordance with the law. Many, many lawsuits challenging the results have been thrown out because the plaintiffs have been unable to present any evidence of fraud. There is no story here, aside from the story that as usual Trump is opening a ton of frivolous lawsuits. For many people, this is not interesting or informative news. He's been opening frivolous lawsuits for decades. It's boring.

If you really want to set up a media outlet that reports the play-by-play of every lawsuit Trump opens, you are welcome to do so. Nobody is stopping you.

If you want to claim on social media that the election results are bogus, then you may find your messages flagged. But you are not being flagged because the powers that be are trying to tell you how to think, you are being flagged because you are spreading a lie. There is no evidence that shows widespread election fraud has occurred to the degree that it would change the election result. There is lots of evidence (over 159 million ballots) that shows the actual results are exactly what has been reported by the media.

There might be some things that the media is not reporting accurately, but the results of the election is not one of them.

If you are disturbed by how CNN decides to report the news, then don't watch CNN. It's very simple. Every news room in the country has an editorial team, they all decide how their outlet will report the news. That's not scandalous. That's just how the media works. As I already said - the media doesn't have the time to report every detail of every story, they are being paid to decide on the top stories and summarize. Obviously every media outlet will have its own bias, that is not a surprise to anyone. Editorial teams making decisions about what to report on is not censorship, it's just the business of reporting.
The networks are the ones saying there is no evidence. They are presented evidence at the hearings. Do you think that might be important or newsworthy? In accordance to the law is part of what is being discussed at the hearings. In most of the cases you say are being thrown out, they are not able to present the evidence. They have the evidence, but the judge will not let them show it. That is why they are having hearing in state legislators as we speak, to show the evidence.

You are proving my point. The MSM is telling you that there is no evidence. I'm watching the hearings showing the evidence.

I watch a little of all the networks as well as follow people on social media. That's how I come to my own conclusions. The problem is however people still watch the news expecting to not get lied to, and that is just not the case anymore. They are not reporting. They are campaigning.

What is happening in our country is the same way Mussolini and Hitler came into power in their countries, also how Stalin spread communism across Europe after WWll. Its quite interesting. The History Channel has some cool documentaries about WWll, before and after the war. If anyone gets bored you should check it out.
 

ali

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What would be important or newsworthy is if 1) the plaintiffs can provide evidence, 2) that evidence - which was already thrown out by the courts - is accepted by the legislature, 3) that evidence results in a concrete proposal to change the electoral system and/or (somehow) a change to the 2020 election results. If none of these things happen, I'm sorry, but that story is just not very interesting to me.

I don't care about every detail of every hearing. I just want to to know the outcome. That doesn't mean I'm ignorant or I'm being manipulated, it just means I honestly don't care about the play-by-play of conversations that most likely won't go anywhere. I understand that some people are very interested in this, but I am not, and I think it's fair to say that a lot of people are not, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the media isn't devoting much time to it.

I understand your concern that people are not critical enough of the media. However, I have a fairly boring life, and even someone like me has lived through events which I know from first-hand experience that the media reported inaccurately. I imagine most people have had at least one experience where they know the media reported it inaccurately, so I hope they can learn from that that the media is not a final source of truth, it's just a way to get the basic high level view of a topic. If you are really interested, it is important to do a deep-dive.

Personally, what worries me about the media is not that one party controls it, but that it is by and large controlled by for-profit companies... An individual media outlet might be a loss-leader for those companies, but even still you have to wonder if the editorial teams are making decisions based more on financial reasons than "good journalism" reasons. This has been a problem that journalism has faced since it first existed, but in recent years I think the problem is getting worse. I don't think free countries in the west are headed for a Hitler or Mussolini moment, but I do worry that what pays the bills in the media (sensationalist stories and enflaming tribal conflict like "culture wars" etc) is not good for society.
 

mikepetti76

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What would be important or newsworthy is if 1) the plaintiffs can provide evidence, 2) that evidence - which was already thrown out by the courts - is accepted by the legislature, 3) that evidence results in a concrete proposal to change the electoral system and/or (somehow) a change to the 2020 election results. If none of these things happen, I'm sorry, but that story is just not very interesting to me.

I don't care about every detail of every hearing. I just want to to know the outcome. That doesn't mean I'm ignorant or I'm being manipulated, it just means I honestly don't care about the play-by-play of conversations that most likely won't go anywhere. I understand that some people are very interested in this, but I am not, and I think it's fair to say that a lot of people are not, so it shouldn't be a surprise that the media isn't devoting much time to it.

I understand your concern that people are not critical enough of the media. However, I have a fairly boring life, and even someone like me has lived through events which I know from first-hand experience that the media reported inaccurately. I imagine most people have had at least one experience where they know the media reported it inaccurately, so I hope they can learn from that that the media is not a final source of truth, it's just a way to get the basic high level view of a topic. If you are really interested, it is important to do a deep-dive.

Personally, what worries me about the media is not that one party controls it, but that it is by and large controlled by for-profit companies... An individual media outlet might be a loss-leader for those companies, but even still you have to wonder if the editorial teams are making decisions based more on financial reasons than "good journalism" reasons. This has been a problem that journalism has faced since it first existed, but in recent years I think the problem is getting worse. I don't think free countries in the west are headed for a Hitler or Mussolini moment, but I do worry that what pays the bills in the media (sensationalist stories and enflaming tribal conflict like "culture wars" etc) is not good for society.
1)They can and are providing evidence in the state legislator hearings
2)The judges are throwing out the case without hearing the evidence
3)That is yet to be determined because the process hasn't came to a conclusion yet.

That's fine that you don't want to know every detail. That's your right. I didn't say you are ignorant, however you are being manipulated when you state there is no evidence. How did you come to that conclusion? My guess is you heard it from the news or someone told you that the news said it so. That is not reporting that is campaigning.

What worries me is the level and speed they are flipping. It didn't take long before Germany flipped and became full blown Nazi. Hitler gets out of jail in 1924, in 1933 he's appointed chancellor, and by 1934 the night of long knives and take over of concentration camps by the SS. That' is 10 years of propaganda in the 20's and 30's and they convinced a whole country to exterminate Jews. They had no internet, not many TV's, no cell phones, just a few papers and movies.
 

Coywolf

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If the 'alt-facts' are not real then why don't they prove them wrong instead of censoring and writing off as conspiracy?

They do. All the time. Like the election fraud. Proven wrong, time and time again by recounts, and internal investigations by secretaries of state.

I feel like you are just picking and choosing what you want to listen to

There was quite a bit of time and money spent on Russian collusion, General Flynn, impeachment, all without evidence. No censorship for those "alt-facts'.

Uh. What? Evidence or PROOF of all of those things was presented in hours-long congressional hearings that were televised. A few of that I watched. Yet again, you are picking and choosing.

They talk about the science, but never show what science they are talking about.

Yes. They do. Like in front of your eyes Corona virus studies and deaths. Picking and choosing again.

Do you believe in Qanon? I want to see some science behind that.

How many networks are covering the hearing on election fraud?

Not even FOX is covering that, because everyone knows it's a blatant lie put forth by a narcissist that couldn't tolerate the results of a decision that was out of his control and who was unable to rig himself.
How many times has the president been on tv recently and networks cut him off or don't show it altogether.

...what? His ugly mug is everywhere. Yelling about "Fraud this....COVID is a hoax that". I can't wait till I no longer have to hear that fascist idiot.

Social media is suspending accounts everyday for people just giving their opinion or showing news that don't align with certain politics. That is censorship.

If I went around on every platform talking about how white people were the one true race, that I have tons of proof, and calling for the next holocaust, how do you think social media platforms would deal with that? Would they leave it up, because, ya know, free speech?

Now what about if I said all the brown people were gonna come into OUR country, rape OUR wives, take OUR jobs, and sell drugs OUR little timmy?! Free speech....?

Our election system is rigged. Voting doesnt matter. Democracy is a sham. Trump shouldn't have term limits. Let's start an armed takeover of the state legislature! Maybe even take out some of those UNAMERICAN liberal SCUM.

...what about that?

COVID is a hoax. All those scientists you trusted last week to protect you from disease are now lying to you. It's a global hoax for enslavement of the masses. I'm not going to wear a mask. You shouldn't either. It's just a minor cold. No one has actually died. It's a hoax.

....you see my point here? Its called disinformation. And it doesnt just affect you, and your group of people who happen to believe the same thing.

If you want to claim on social media that the election results are bogus, then you may find your messages flagged. But you are not being flagged because the powers that be are trying to tell you how to think, you are being flagged because you are spreading a lie. There is no evidence that shows widespread election fraud has occurred to the degree that it would change the election result. There is lots of evidence (over 159 million ballots) that shows the actual results are exactly what has been reported by the media.

THANK YOU! 🙌
Editorial teams making decisions about what to report on is not censorship, it's just the business of reporting.

🙌

They have the evidence, but the judge will not let them show it.

No. No they dont. They have hearsay and speculative 'evidence'. That doesnt hold up in a court of law. Go watch them try to present that BS to a judge, and watch them get laughed out of the courtroom. It's in multiple videos online.

What is happening in our country is the same way Mussolini and Hitler came into power in their countries, also how Stalin spread communism across Europe after WWll

Ya. You're right. It is. Trump has been doing it for 4 years. We have no seen NEAR the level of authoritarian fascism Trump has blatantly embraced since WW2.

Come on dude. I'm sorry to say it, but you were conned, by a con man. The guy admits it. Look at hin trying to give preemptive pardons to his entire family before he leaves office, for crimes he KNOWS they will be charged with after hes out. Fucking disgrace of a human being, and I hope they throw the book at him the second he steps off the White House lawn.
 

ali

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I think the difference in perspective here is what constitutes "evidence". I think in everyday speech, what most people understand to be evidence is forensic evidence, i.e. scientific evidence. An example might be video logs of tens or hundreds of thousands of ballots being destroyed or falsified en masse. I am not aware of any of this sort of evidence being provided to the courts, and I very much doubt that a judge would throw it out if it was there.

Another type of legal evidence is witness testimony. This is not really something I think most people would refer to as "evidence" in everyday speech. In my opinion it's especially less relevant in the context of American elections. Because the election count is massively decentralized, there would need to be hundreds or thousands of conspirators across hundreds or thousands of precincts, all working together to affect a significant change in the result. If we only have a few witnesses, they may only be able to testify to amounts of fraud so tiny as to not make an impact on the result. Obviously zero fraud would be ideal, but every election there are very tiny amounts of fraud - 5 votes here, 5 votes there... That's not worth dedicating a news cycle to.

Personally, I think that the worry about "we're just steps away from Hitler" reporting is far more damaging to the country than "there's nothing much going on at this hearing" reporting. And, for sure, the media has been going on for 4 years about how fascism is just around the corner. That was some epic BS, in my opinion. But that's what people want to hear makes money. This idea that the country is at war with itself, bla bla bla. In my experience, in the real world (i.e. not on the internet) most people are still pretty compassionate toward one another. So, if anything, i would say the media should quit with the fascism analogies (especially when we have actual fascist countries already existing in the world that are far more authoritarian than anything in the west) and focus instead on real problems affecting real people... Poverty, addiction, health care, housing etc.
 
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mikepetti76

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They do. All the time. Like the election fraud. Proven wrong, time and time again by recounts, and internal investigations by secretaries of state.

I feel like you are just picking and choosing what you want to listen to



Uh. What? Evidence or PROOF of all of those things was presented in hours-long congressional hearings that were televised. A few of that I watched. Yet again, you are picking and choosing.



Yes. They do. Like in front of your eyes Corona virus studies and deaths. Picking and choosing again.

Do you believe in Qanon? I want to see some science behind that.



Not even FOX is covering that, because everyone knows it's a blatant lie put forth by a narcissist that couldn't tolerate the results of a decision that was out of his control and who was unable to rig himself.


...what? His ugly mug is everywhere. Yelling about "Fraud this....COVID is a hoax that". I can't wait till I no longer have to hear that fascist idiot.



If I went around on every platform talking about how white people were the one true race, that I have tons of proof, and calling for the next holocaust, how do you think social media platforms would deal with that? Would they leave it up, because, ya know, free speech?

Now what about if I said all the brown people were gonna come into OUR country, rape OUR wives, take OUR jobs, and sell drugs OUR little timmy?! Free speech....?

Our election system is rigged. Voting doesnt matter. Democracy is a sham. Trump shouldn't have term limits. Let's start an armed takeover of the state legislature! Maybe even take out some of those UNAMERICAN liberal SCUM.

...what about that?

COVID is a hoax. All those scientists you trusted last week to protect you from disease are now lying to you. It's a global hoax for enslavement of the masses. I'm not going to wear a mask. You shouldn't either. It's just a minor cold. No one has actually died. It's a hoax.

....you see my point here? Its called disinformation. And it doesnt just affect you, and your group of people who happen to believe the same thing.



THANK YOU! 🙌


🙌



No. No they dont. They have hearsay and speculative 'evidence'. That doesnt hold up in a court of law. Go watch them try to present that BS to a judge, and watch them get laughed out of the courtroom. It's in multiple videos online.



Ya. You're right. It is. Trump has been doing it for 4 years. We have no seen NEAR the level of authoritarian fascism Trump has blatantly embraced since WW2.

Come on dude. I'm sorry to say it, but you were conned, by a con man. The guy admits it. Look at hin trying to give preemptive pardons to his entire family before he leaves office, for crimes he KNOWS they will be charged with after hes out. Fucking disgrace of a human being, and I hope they throw the book at him the second he steps off the White House lawn.
It has not been proven wrong yet. Media is telling you that. Proving my point
There is more to info than death count.
I don't believe in Qanan.
Fox is not the fair and balanced it claims. These people have signed affidavits under penalty of perjury. More than Russian collusion.
They cut him off when he starts talking about the evidence.
The scientist go back and forth about everything. Can't be trusted. Got to show me the evidence at this point.
They don't censor the iran leader when he starts talking about killing jews.
They don't censor most of that you are talking about.
They censor direct challenges to the political belief they are pushing down your throat.

Got to sign off right now. I'll hit the rest of this tomorrow.
Thanks
 

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