What Can We Do To Support Peace?

[frzrbrnd]

history actually shows that the opposite of the statement "the best way to assure peace is to be prepared for war" is true. preparing for war is precisely what makes war inevitable: the nation that isn't armed doesn't fight.

 

[Vonuist]

yes, point at the soldiers and laugh.

perhaps they hate that.

but...

they will lay down their own lives for you to have the freedom to laugh at them.

The only thing soldiers have ever done for me was to beat the shit out of me in Aldershot high street and leave me in traction for eight weeks.
They are paid killers in the employ of the state.

 

[frzrbrnd]

some of them died so you could have cheap oil.

 

[Vonuist]

some of them died so you could have cheap oil.

I don't drive.

 

[frzrbrnd]

a) that wasn't a statement in favor of warring for oil.
b) if you hitchhike or hop trains, you're still dependent on oil even if you don't pay for it; you still benefit from oil being cheap.
c) transport is not the only use for oil. plastics are generally created using oil.

 

[Vonuist]

a) that wasn't a statement in favor of warring for oil.
b) if you hitchhike or hop trains, you're still dependent on oil even if you don't pay for it; you still benefit from oil being cheap.
c) transport is not the only use for oil. plastics are generally created using oil.

I feel no moral imperitive to support those employed to murder on behalf of the state, regardless of the justification offered.

 

[frzrbrnd]

neither do i. i was being a smartass, and i'm going to guess that i am probably in agreement with you regarding the state, military, and so on.

 

[Vonuist]

neither do i. i was being a smartass, and i'm going to guess that i am probably in agreement with you regarding the state, military, and so on.

I have three coffees and a row with a creationist, I'm in a fighting mood tonight. lol

 

[freedude2012]

i theink the best way to find peace is to start in small groops and then jus keep passin the happyness around
P.S. i used to be the guy that hated everyone till i found myself alone and misrable

 

[Matthew LaVergne]

at some point perhaps people will realize that we can start by setting an example. taking into account the laws of nature, physics and all other scientific statutes that place human beings in a position where they believe they understand their surroundings, violence will always exist. it is a daily occurrence in the animal world, where distinctions between peace and violence are non existent. it only makes sense that it would filter into the realm of humans, those holy, supreme beings that sit on their thrones of waste and destruction (we've got it figured out, right?). my point is, if you want to live in a world that operates solely off of peace, go join a commune, grow your own food, cornhole your neighbor, and smoke a lot of hash. life will be wonderful, albeit incredibly bland. as a half assed pacifist, i don't deny having an awful temper. as a matter of fact, i'm the fucking worst. however, envisioning a world where nuclear technology is no longer necessary starts in my head, with my ideals, and the way i treat the people i surround myself with.

 

[soapybum]

Just cuz it deals w/ the subject, anyone read How NonViolence Protects the State? Great book and you can dl it on zinelibrary.info

 

[vodka4581]

pacifism can be fucking hard sometimes.

the word "violence" carries a negative connotation it seems. like implying anger or something. what if you just crack someone, but your not pissed about it, thats not violence right? "its all good bro i just had to crack you in the face" right?

 

[LittleDoe]

My only answer to this: Peace would be great! But it's f***ing impossible man. That's all there is to it.

Unless someone figures out a way to get laughing gas to float down from the heavens above and infect everyone on earth, people are going to continue killing each other and screwing each other over. All day. Every day. Until the world ends. Or we all kill eachother. Whatever comes first. The end

 

[scales]

theres no unity in the punk culture first unity and then lets talk about peace

 

[soapybum]

Before you talk about peace you need to define what peace and violence mean...

 

[scatwomb]

In my opinion, the use of violence should be based on very specific circumstances. It depends on the severity of what you're protesting - if you think your college should use fluorescent light bulbs, you probably shouldn't be burning down buildings on campus or macing cops. If, however, your entire way of life or culture is at risk because of imposed economic "development," for instance, I think you have the right and responsibility to fight and kill your oppressors. If you're freedoms are being stomped on (like, real freedoms, not a prohibition to shoot up a limitless amount of heroin) you definitely have the right to fight back with violence. Also, I think that violence should only be used when other strategies are obviously not working - it should be a last resort. You will get more support this way and it gives a greater sense of urgency to what you're fighting for.

And, non-violence should work in tandem with violence - if you don't feel comfortable using force, get out in the streets and support those who are willing to give their lives for what they believe in. Make websites or radio shows to support what you believe in. In order to win, we need a diverse strategy including violence and non-violence, and everything in between!

I think, first and foremost, pacifists need to stop demonizing dedicated brothers and sisters who are willing to give their lives for what they believe. And, violent revolutionaries need to realize that non-violent protestors play a very real role in winning the revolution. So, all y'all motherfuckers need to get off your high-horse and realize that we all depend on each other and ought to use every strategy at our disposal to win this fight.

 

[Driftwhistler]

The best anyone can do is set an example and hope someone takes your lead.

 

[BenjaminHunter]

Violence is preventable, for the most part, amongst humans (It's necessary in some situations in other species, like in hunting or mating rituals, but we have intellectual/emotional capabilities that, as far as I know, aren't as developed in other species). "Evidence shows strong relationships between levels of violence and potentially modifiable factors such as concentrated poverty, income and gender inequality, the harmful use of alcohol, and the absence of safe, stable, and nurturing relationships between children and parents." These situations are all extensions of ourselves, so first we have to do our best to purge ourselves of all violence, directly and indirectly.

Purging ourselves of violence indirectly starts with the end of our supporting violence promoting entities, such as the state, and most corporations. Without our support/submission they have no power. We're the workers... Now, this will result in a radical, but positive, change in lifestyle, but you folks know all about that. Anyways, to avoid paying taxes, which would indirectly support wars, bail-outs, and nonrenewable energy projects, you would either have to find systematic ways past it, or just quit your job, which would give you the added plus of not participating in the economy that brings about mass inequality.

To make up for the lack of money, and therefore the lack of resources, you could spend your time that you would've spent working for someone "above" you, you could use that time to garden, tap trees, dumpster dive, write, etc, giving you other means to support yourself. Then rather than exchanging your skills/fruits of labor for food, you could barter for what you needed, with like minded people. It's all about the community! In this way you would be by passing the evil corporations as well, cause you wouldn't be buying their products.

Directly, we could take small steps in our own lives to prevent violence, such as going vegan/vegetarian, finding alternative ways to vent frustration (meditation, perhaps), bicycling rather than driving, etc. It's a long journey, and perhaps we'll never get to complete non violence, but the satisfaction that comes from working towards something good should be enough, even for individualist egoists. Being good makes you feel good.

 

[justo]

They are paid killers in the employ of the state.

That shit is so fucking true. We are fed the illusion that they are protecting our freedoms. Who are they protecting it from? The U.S. Military exists to execute the will of the corporate elite that runs this country. The whole "fight for our freedom" bullshit is just rhetoric used to keep the masses in their place and to keep them consuming, giving them the temporary sedation that everything is alright because of these pricks with machine guns.

 

[Pheonix]

Violence is preventable, for the most part, amongst humans (It's necessary in some situations in other species, like in hunting or mating rituals, but we have intellectual/emotional capabilities that, as far as I know, aren't as developed in other species). "Evidence shows strong relationships between levels of violence and potentially modifiable factors such as concentrated poverty, income and gender inequality, the harmful use of alcohol, and the absence of safe, stable, and nurturing relationships between children and parents." These situations are all extensions of ourselves, so first we have to do our best to purge ourselves of all violence, directly and indirectly.

You have the freedom to purge yourself as you see fit, however if you want to make an impact you need to "convert the masses". The problem is the non-violent pacifists are so full of themselves and so closed minded on their beliefs that they come off like a bunch of bible-thumping street preachers. It's not an effective form of conversion, if you want people to believe your right stop acting so righteous.

Purging ourselves of violence indirectly starts with the end of our supporting violence promoting entities, such as the state, and most corporations. Without our support/submission they have no power. We're the workers... Now, this will result in a radical, but positive, change in lifestyle, but you folks know all about that. Anyways, to avoid paying taxes, which would indirectly support wars, bail-outs, and nonrenewable energy projects, you would either have to find systematic ways past it, or just quit your job, which would give you the added plus of not participating in the economy that brings about mass inequality.

Telling people that they should quit their jobs is your first step towards being that self-righteous pacifist douche-bag that you don't want to be.

To make up for the lack of money, and therefore the lack of resources, you could spend your time that you would've spent working for someone "above" you, you could use that time to garden, tap trees, dumpster dive, write, etc, giving you other means to support yourself. Then rather than exchanging your skills/fruits of labor for food, you could barter for what you needed, with like minded people. It's all about the community! In this way you would be by passing the evil corporations as well, cause you wouldn't be buying their products.

the problem with that is the problem that currency solved, but that's another topic for another thread. just because currency has become corrupt doesn't mean it doesn't have it's purposes.

Directly, we could take small steps in our own lives to prevent violence, such as going vegan/vegetarian, finding alternative ways to vent frustration (meditation, perhaps), bicycling rather than driving, etc. It's a long journey, and perhaps we'll never get to complete non violence, but the satisfaction that comes from working towards something good should be enough, even for individualist egoists. Being good makes you feel good.

again your coming off as a self-righteous douche by telling people they need to convert to bike-riding, meditating vegan pacifists. BEING EVIL MAKES ME FEEL BETTER.