Sailboats

[Myechtatel]

So my girlfriend and I really wanted to build a cabin this winter but it seems like with the price of land it would be a better idea to get a sailboat. I've heard of travelers getting sailboats and sailing the coasts because it's very cheap living. Has anyone done this, know anyone that's done this, had any experience with sailboats at all? I figure I can pick one up for a couple grand and we'll basically live on it. We can go into town wherever and whenever we want to busk and get food. Is this completely unrealistic or pretty common?:arrgh:

 

[wokofshame]

check this video out, the same kid has a zine also Moxie Marlinspike on Vimeo
its totally doable
i forget the zine name, but Microcosmpublishing.com might have it i think?

 

[Myechtatel]

im like 5 minutes into this. it looks great so far. better than anything ive found on youtube. thanks so much!

 

[Heron]

man, i've always wanted to grab a sailboat, some friends and some supplies and go sailing around the world. lots more anarchy to be had on the high seas than on land.

 

[Diagaro]

@heron. Yea? that simple huh?
Wish I had known all the times I have had boats and able bodies at my disposal.
To think just that simple "go sailing"

 

[Myechtatel]

haha. yeah i definitely don't want to just jump into it because i know there's a lot to sailing. wind, water direction, sails and cables to mess with, anchors, rutters, sand bars, storms, not knowing where the fuck you are, etc. it's not like driving a car where theres two pedals, a wheel and the road. sailing is hard and im prepared for a lot of trial and error. either way, no one's really helped except MURT. any additional info or experience would be great.

 

[Heron]

@heron. Yea? that simple huh?
Wish I had known all the times I have had boats and able bodies at my disposal.
To think just that simple "go sailing"

maybe i should detail every prerequisite to sailing in a post that's point is just to show that i like the idea of hitting the open seas

 

[Heron]

fuck lack of editing posts

Sail Away - Steal This Wiki

 

[SkyeDawg]

There were a couple tall-masted sailing ships parked in the harbor here a few weeks ago. Seemed like a bunch of rainbow kids on board. They all had the crazy ass haircuts that only woods kids sport...

 

[Myechtatel]

fuck lack of editing posts

Sail Away - Steal This Wiki

thank you that was very helpful. i dont know why i cant find shit like that through google.

 

[Diagaro]

"cables"
"Sailing is hard and im prepared for a lot of trial and error. either way, no one's really helped except MURT. any additional info or experience would be great."

What? I think you mean "LINES" rope on a boat is called "lines" steel cables are usualy called stays or just generaly refered to as "rigging" or "gear"

And as for "trial and error. you have little to no margin for error. an error at sea means death. Do your self a favor and read some books about sailing start with sailing for dummies. Join some forums like sailinganarchy.com
wiki the fuck outta some shit, some usefull terms to saerch are parts of a boat, sailing lingo/jargon.
Watch some youtube videos search "rough weather sailing" the BTglobal is a good one, watch some movies liek POTC and master and commander water world etc,. once you can spot bullshit hollywood fuckups and understand the mortal threat of piloting a vessel - not to just your self but to those that you take as your crew THEN and only then start to entertain these asinine ventures of yours as possible.
If you wanna kill your self I can show you more creative and less wasteful ways but to jeopardize others both on your boat and on to other boats thats not fucking cool, more than likely your not gonna run into another boat, but the brave and unfortunate coast guard that brave the choppy seas to rescue your dumbass are innocent in all this.
On one hand yes you can teach your self to sail with no Knowledge to start with, but you have to be competent to start off, and this thread shows that you are not competent to even drive a 5hp scooter on the sidewalk.
end rant.

thank you that was very helpful. i dont know why i cant find shit like that through google.

'Cause you don't try. thats why you will fail as a sailor. people survive failing at riding freight, the oceans are not man made, she is not forgiving, she is a greedy spiteful homewrecking widowmaker.

 

[cranberrydavid]

Is this completely unrealistic or pretty common?:arrgh:

It's not unrealistic, but it's usually guys who know boats to start with who make it work. There's just a whole lot to learn, and it's best to first learn the basics by sailing with sombody who already knows what they're doing.

Shit happens fast on the water, especially off shore, and it's easy to freeze when you've never been that close to death before. Then it's kind of nice to have an asshole skipper who's a combat vet and can whip your ass into action. That's why the Coast Guard requires 360 days of sea time before they give you a basic license, and another 360 of off-shore time before they'll give you a near-coastal license. There's a lot that you can (and should) learn from books, but it doesn't do any good if you forget it all when the shit comes down.

In general, always plan 3 or 4 moves ahead, always have 3 or 4 fallback plans, always know the weather 2 or 3 days out (here's a good site for that: SailFlow.com - MD - chesapeake Wind Data). Here's some other links I put up a while ago that are pretty useful: http://squattheplanet.com/general-discussion/useful-links/12415-free-nautical-charts.html

Also, I ought to warn you about girlfriends and boats. The odds aren't good of keeping both. On a boat the skipper needs to be the absolute authority. But sooner or later your girlfriend will probably say something like "don't use that tone with me!" Usually while the boat is sinking and you're trying to get her to grab another 5 gallon bucket and help you bail. There's a thousand stories like that. Just letting you know.....

 

[Diagaro]

also, i ought to warn you about girlfriends and boats. The odds aren't good of keeping both. On a boat the skipper needs to be the absolute authority. But sooner or later your girlfriend will probably say something like "don't use that tone with me!" usually while the boat is sinking and you're trying to get her to grab another 5 gallon bucket and help you bail. There's a thousand stories like that. Just letting you know.....

I laffed so hard I cried!

 

[Myechtatel]

And as for "trial and error. you have little to no margin for error. an error at sea means death. Do your self a favor and read some books about sailing start with sailing for dummies. Join some forums like sailinganarchy.com
wiki the fuck outta some shit, some usefull terms to saerch are parts of a boat, sailing lingo/jargon.
Watch some youtube videos search "rough weather sailing" the BTglobal is a good one, watch some movies liek POTC and master and commander water world etc,. once you can spot bullshit hollywood fuckups and understand the mortal threat of piloting a vessel - not to just your self but to those that you take as your crew THEN and only then start to entertain these asinine ventures of yours as possible.
If you wanna kill your self I can show you more creative and less wasteful ways but to jeopardize others both on your boat and on to other boats thats not fucking cool, more than likely your not gonna run into another boat, but the brave and unfortunate coast guard that brave the choppy seas to rescue your dumbass are innocent in all this.
On one hand yes you can teach your self to sail with no Knowledge to start with, but you have to be competent to start off, and this thread shows that you are not competent to even drive a 5hp scooter on the sidewalk.
end rant.



'Cause you don't try. thats why you will fail as a sailor. people survive failing at riding freight, the oceans are not man made, she is not forgiving, she is a greedy spiteful homewrecking widowmaker.

Well I know you weren't trying to be helpful but I did learn something from this. There are sailors(if you even are a sailor) that resemble the majority of trainhoppers. You know a little bit of uncommon knowledge and think you're just so cool. You're unwilling to help anyone else because in order to be cool there can't be a thousand people knowing about it. But yet you like to act like what you do is so much better than everyone else and they should all do what you do. Also, you're arrogant and like to make things seem more dangerous than they are because dangerous is cool. To think that someone would go buy a boat and take it out with absolutely no knowledge or training is just ridiculous. Not saying there aren't people out there who would do it but I don't recall saying "hey i have no knowledge of sailing and im gonna buy a boat and sail. any ideas?". I didn't even say I was going to do it. I wasn't asking for sailing lessons. I simply asked if anyone does this and if they do, share some experience.
No one has even said if they've done it, if they know anyone who's done it, or if they somehow know how to do it. I'm just being bombarded with useless sailing advice which in all likeliness you know as much as I do.

 

[cranberrydavid]

No one has even said if they've done it, if they know anyone who's done it, or if they somehow know how to do it. I'm just being bombarded with useless sailing advice which in all likeliness you know as much as I do.

Hey man, you're asking for advice on a public internet forum about a way of life that's below-the-radar. What do you expect?

I was trying to be helpful. I gave you a few good pointers and good links based on personal experience. But if you're going to talk shit to the people who take the trouble to reply to you, I guess I don't have much more to say.

Good luck!

By the way, Diagaro's reply did have attitude, but I think it was meant to be helpful too. It contained a lot of truth, and it had experience behind it. If you read through it again and some of the other boat threads I think you'll see what I mean.

 

[Myechtatel]

^Don't get me wrong, your post was helpful. And even if it wasn't, at least you were contributing. Diagaro, however, wasn't. And it's shit like that that was all too common on the train forum. As far as experience, thank you for sharing yours. But like I said, Diagaro didn't even mention if he had any or if he was just talking out his ass based on shit he read somewhere. All in all I'm a lot more interested in the living on a boat aspect than the actual sailing. I thought that would've been apparent due to the fact that I posted the thread in "squatting and alternative housing" and not a sailing forum.

 

[cranberrydavid]

And it's shit like that that was all too common on the train forum.

This is a little off topic, but in my opinion the trainhopping forum was killed as much by the arrogance of the people demanding information as by the arrogance of the people who were replying.

Diagaro didn't even mention if he had any or if he was just talking out his ass based on shit he read somewhere.

Look, when you're talking to people who are living a life of stealth like squatting, trainhopping, liveaboard/sneekaboarding you can't expect them to give you a resume. Part of the reason people are sometimes willing to answer these questions at all is because they are anonymous. I've followed Diagaro's posts for a while and exchanged a couple PM's. From what I've seen he knows his shit, but you've got to judge for yourself. Either way there's nothing to be gained by talking shit to somebody who took the trouble to reply to you and may be able to help you. If you don't like the advice, all you gotta do is ignore it.

All in all I'm a lot more interested in the living on a boat aspect than the actual sailing. I thought that would've been apparent due to the fact that I posted the thread in "squatting and alternative housing" and not a sailing forum.

I've heard of travelers getting sailboats and sailing the coasts because it's very cheap living. Has anyone done this, know anyone that's done this, had any experience with sailboats at all?

This is where I got the idea you were planning to do some serious sailing. On the west coast we see a lot of boats lost, especially between San Francisco and Puget Sound, because there's a prevailing onshore flow, and very few safe harbor entrances in a storm. That's why everybody was worrying about how much experience you had (which, by the way, you never said).

Now if you're looking to liveaboard more than travel, I'd suggest you look at a small cabin cruiser. Of my friends who liveaboard, it's split about half and half, but the cruisers are a lot better laid out for living, both on deck and below decks, they don't cost as much to keep up. If you don't plan on using the sails regularly, sailboats just aren't worth it in my opinion (though they do blend in well in some areas if you're looking for stealth). If you're just moving occasionally you can easily bum the fuel. Just tell the neighbors you're not coming back!

 

[Myechtatel]

This is a little off topic, but in my opinion the trainhopping forum was killed as much by the arrogance of the people demanding information as by the arrogance of the people who were replying.

I never said the arrogance itself killed the train forum. I simply said it was all too common. I agree that there were a lot of people asking stupid questions and not taking responsibility. But like I said, douchebag know-it-alls posting snide replies to questions from newbies is all too common Not just on the train forum but on STP in general. It's like they forget that they were there once and really valued information from those who had experience. There's not a lot of info out there about squatting, hopping, hitching, etc. it's really a grassroots type movement and should be treated as such. You have to be willing to share information.

Either way there's nothing to be gained by talking shit to somebody who took the trouble to reply to you and may be able to help you.

there's a big difference between "taking the time to reply" and trolling because you don't have anything else to do.

This is where I got the idea you were planning to do some serious sailing. On the west coast we see a lot of boats lost, especially between San Francisco and Puget Sound, because there's a prevailing onshore flow, and very few safe harbor entrances in a storm. That's why everybody was worrying about how much experience you had (which, by the way, you never said).

Now if you're looking to liveaboard more than travel, I'd suggest you look at a small cabin cruiser. Of my friends who liveaboard, it's split about half and half, but the cruisers are a lot better laid out for living, both on deck and below decks, they don't cost as much to keep up. If you don't plan on using the sails regularly, sailboats just aren't worth it in my opinion (though they do blend in well in some areas if you're looking for stealth). If you're just moving occasionally you can easily bum the fuel. Just tell the neighbors you're not coming back!

What initially drew me to sailboats was the fact that it didn't require money to move it from place to place, much unlike a car. So I would definitely do everything I could to not use fuel. I've looked at a lot of cruisers and I'm thinking a 25 to 30 foot cruiser would be ideal and can be picked up for 1,000 to 10,000 dollars. I'm currently in Florida so I see a lot of boats as well and craigslist is just full of them so I don't think that will be a problem. But I'm definitely not in a rush. It's gonna take a while to get the money together and I want to travel the states more before I settle down.

 

[cranberrydavid]

What initially drew me to sailboats was the fact that it didn't require money to move it from place to place, much unlike a car.

Yeah, sail is really cool that way. It takes a while to really figure it all out, to figure out what the wind is doing at different heights, what the tide is doing, what the currents are doing, both on the surface and down at keel depth, and how to work all the forces against each other to get where you are going, or to learn the patience to wait till the conditions are in your favor. But when you finally master it enough to get where you want to go, there's a real sense of freedom.

But it's exactly like learning to hang glide in that it's totally possible to teach yourself if you've got a safe place, a lot of time, and a willingness to take some lumps, but it's better to have a teacher before you go jumping off of cliffs.

 

[cranberrydavid]

...but on your other point...

I never said the arrogance itself killed the train forum.

No, it was me who said that. What I saw was maybe a dozen or two people who knew what they were talking about and where really trying to help (though sometimes with an attitude), another group of people who wanted to learn and were appreciative of whatever knowledge was shared, a handful of trolls (of course trolls are everywhere and you just ignore them), and an growing mob of kids who thought there was a "secret" besides putting in the work to learn everything you can about trains. Hell, I'm an old fart and a lot of my knowledge is 20 years out of date, but if I tried to help somebody out with a word or two I'd get flooded with PM's asking me to hold their hand and give them the "secret". So I didn't help so much anymore.

But like I said, douchebag know-it-alls posting snide replies to questions from newbies is all too common Not just on the train forum but on STP in general. It's like they forget that they were there once and really valued information from those who had experience.

But that's exactly my point! Some of the greatest wisdom I ever received was from crusty old-timers who said things to me like "Goddamn greenhorn! Don't you have a fucking brain in your head? You'll get yourself killed doing that, and it'll serve you right!" If you'd sit down and listen to guys like that you'd usually learn something, but if you'd diss them and call them arrogant they'll just shut up, and then say "I told him" when you fuck up.

There's not a lot of info out there about squatting, hopping, hitching, etc. it's really a grassroots type movement and should be treated as such. You have to be willing to share information.

NO YOU DON'T! If you work hard to learn something, that knowledge is yours. Sometimes I think it's the only thing you really own. I like to share information and to help out when I can, which is why I check in here at StP from time to time, but IT'S MY CHOICE whether I want to share what I've learned with somebody or not! Jesus! I just don't understand where this sense of entitlement comes from!
And i want to make it clear I don't just mean you. But sometimes I feel like just purging my password and never logging on here again, which is what happened in one form or another to most of the wisdom pool of the trainhopping forum, which is a shame because there are some people who really want to learn, and others who really want to help.

I apologize for the rant. This has been building up for a while.
I hope you find a good boat.