Sabatoging hunters cruel games

[Art101]

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1080&context=hwi

 

[Art101]

Might want to give that a read also

 

[kecleon]

I agree with you, @TheWindAndRain on most of this stuff but there's no point arguing over small mostly irrelevant facts IE. Bucks are or aren't role models. That's not the point and distracts from the original topic and the way more valid and important facts by making people doubt them.

Getting into small arguments when there's a big picture is pointless distracting and employed as a tactic by people to discredit you or as an easy retort to more valid points (though I'm not saying that's what happened here).

I have hunt sabbed and recommend you do to but do your research, be careful.

 

[Art101]

One final thought.This a passion filled topic for both sides.Somewhere in the middle lies a common ground.Its good to see people impassioned about anything.

 

[Ranger]

I am not a fan of trophy hunters and also have never experienced American hunting culture but up north hunting provides much needed food security for those struggling to get by... Sure there are yuppies who trophy hunt sheep but the average guy up here hunts for meat and not much gets wasted. For instance I dislike tongue, liver, heart, etc but will still take them for someone else to eat. Going for spring black bear this year and I'm after meat more than the hide, I will even render down the fat.

 

[kecleon]

Nice so go hunt bears at a time when they have Cubs nursing. It's not enough to kill them , you starve the Cubs to starve to death too. Im general I've got less a problem with capable hunters genuinely hunting for food than I do with people buying meat/meat industry which isn't to say no problem. But seriously hunting bears when theyre desperate for food and trying to keep their cubs alive and weak from hibernation I'd feel like a dick.

 

[dumpster harpy]

Having a problem with subsistence hunting is racist and classist.

It's a big "fuck you" to indigenous people across the world, as well as anyone who finds it more cost effective (or ethical) to get a hunting license/tags and a box of ammo than to buy factory-farmed meat at a store all year.

Not to mention that nearly all conservation funding in the US is provided through hunting/fishing fees. (Not to say that I support regulation or licensing for anything)

 

[kecleon]

You're right, I edited it to reflect better what I mean.

I didn't mean against indigenous people who genuinely NEED and rely on it and live day to day in more of a harmony with nature, thats why i originalrly put subsistence in quotes. Nowadays many people claim they're subsistence hunting while still firmly living in the modern world which is bullshit. However like I said originally I've got less of a problem with that than buying meat/factory farming.

 

[Ranger]

Nice so go hunt bears at a time when they have Cubs nursing. It's not enough to kill them , you starve the Cubs to starve to death too. Im general I've got less a problem with capable hunters genuinely hunting for food than I do with people buying meat/meat industry which isn't to say no problem. But seriously hunting bears when theyre desperate for food and trying to keep their cubs alive and weak from hibernation I'd feel like a dick.

This just goes to show you are hateing on something you don't fully understand, it is completely illegal to shoot any sow with cubs at least here. To do so and not report an accident will earn you the confiscation of rifle, truck and equipment as well as fines. It can be hard to tell the sex sometimes so you have to watch and be sure before taking a shot, I am fully aware that sows will leave cubs behind when they are small to go feed and spend the time to check. If something were to go wrong the cubs are not left to starve they actually get captured and taken to a wildlife preserve with facilities designed for cub rehabilitation locally(we are lucky that way). Understand this, meat stores are at an all time low come spring(last year I did not successfully get my winter meat)and here the only choices for hunting anything large that time of year are bear or bison. The bison requires a fortunes worth of equipment and at least a week off work and if you don't butcher it yourself at least a grand to have it done not to mention needing multiple freezers or sharing it around. The bear hunt I can do in a weekend on foot, not miss work and fill my freezer which I really need, haven't eaten much meat this winter.... PS Not everyone lives south of 60 and food is very expensive up north!

 

[Kim Chee]

Just get out of here if you cant keep things real.

Is there a spoiled brat in the room?

Do you mean "real" as in "anti-hunt?"

If you hate hunting, hunters and hunter enablers, great. But your argument is not strengthened by quoting several falsehoods, and saying "not to mention" and mentioning it anyway.

When asked to provide information (sources) supporting your claim that bucks raise fawns or are somehow father figures you fail.

I only picked out that single fact before I was going to go through the rest as it was the fact I think most people know to be untrue.

If you had taken the time to offer the sources, I'd happily go on to another non-fact or maybe even become anti-hunt myself.

As it is, I'm unchanged. I'm only opposed to the unethical harvesting of animals for food and sport.

And as @Art101 mentioned earlier...It is good seeing people who are passionate about something.

 

[TheWindAndRain]

@malaclypse No one wants to ban subsistence hunting. Most of us explicitly came to its defense.
And the irony of hunting and fishing permits and regulations in the states is that they give preference to well off individuals who dont need to hunt rather than protecting the resources for indigenous and indigent populations. Surprise surprise money wins out every time. Higher regulation is better for example in costa rica only poor subsistence hunters are allowed to hunt and it protects the biodiversity. In Bhutan for example the killing of animals is prohibited for ethical reasons, yet they are healthy. That is a law which the citizens support for ethical reasons, not racist or classist as you say.

 

[TheWindAndRain]

Is there a spoiled brat in the room?

If you had taken the time to offer the sources, I'd happily go on to another non-fact or maybe even become anti-hunt myself.

As it is, I'm unchanged.

Nice job projecting being the spoiled brat yourself. And ignoring the fact that 80% of bucks in the wild are killed by human hands.
Youre pretty demanding on the sources without providing any yourself for your other bizarre claims. Then you cant even take the time to read or address what was provided.

 

[todd]

I hunt deer every year. killed 2 bucks and a doe last season. every bit is in the freezer. I've seen carcasses with the antlers cut off and it makes me sick.
The comment about the deer kids missing their dads made me chuckle this morning, thanks.
I'm assuming your kidding, young, or just quoting something you read somewhere, because you probably haven't spent years in the woods watching deer life cycles or you would know better.
Either way good conversation even if its a bit aggressive. peace

 

[kecleon]

This just goes to show you are hateing on something you don't fully understand, it is completely illegal to shoot any sow with cubs at least here. To do so and not report an accident will earn you the confiscation of rifle, truck and equipment as well as fines. It can be hard to tell the sex sometimes so you have to watch and be sure before taking a shot, I am fully aware that sows will leave cubs behind when they are small to go feed and spend the time to check. If something were to go wrong the cubs are not left to starve they actually get captured and taken to a wildlife preserve with facilities designed for cub rehabilitation locally(we are lucky that way). Understand this, meat stores are at an all time low come spring(last year I did not successfully get my winter meat)and here the only choices for hunting anything large that time of year are bear or bison. The bison requires a fortunes worth of equipment and at least a week off work and if you don't butcher it yourself at least a grand to have it done not to mention needing multiple freezers or sharing it around. The bear hunt I can do in a weekend on foot, not miss work and fill my freezer which I really need, haven't eaten much meat this winter.... PS Not everyone lives south of 60 and food is very expensive up north!

I'm not hating on something I don't know. I was brung up in a fishing shooting hunting house, most my childhood friends parents were farmers and keen hunters, small village lots of farm land lots of nearby woods and forest.. Until i was probably 15 and learned to think for myself i was shooting birds rabbit fox. Deer in season arranged duck and pheasant with family. Ive been around hunters and hunting most my life. e ven now im mostly in the countryside where its ever present. I don't specifically know BEAR hunting sure but I know HUNTERS. If you as well know hunters then don't give me the whole act we're all responsible as fuck and everyone always get clean kills and pretend like it's not brutal as fuck. So it's illegal to shoot a sow with cubs. You think that means it don't happen? You think people really report? is it controlled? It can be hard to tell the sex sometimes? I think you mean like always. Even experts on bear struggle when not real close---- so your average hunter? Watch and be sure? How long are you going to watch and be sure? How many hunters are doing that? Spend time and check. Like you're just following a fucking bear around all day without realising and you think its gona lead you to its cub)s)? Or it being followed/watched isn't going to fuck with its behavior.

Whatever man. There's a lot of types of hunters and in my experience a good percent of them are irresponsible dicks, a much lesser but everpresent percent are just deranged fucking maniacs who are literally sick in the head and nowadays an even lesser percent are genuine responsible respectful "good" hunters. Then there's everything inbetween.

But if you need to hunt a bear to survive and you're a responsible hunter not just front and then some fucking cowboy piece of shit when you're actually out there. I'm just saying I personally think its bullshit you're allowed to do that and if I saw you I'd sabotage your hunt.

 

[Jsh]

Whatever man. There's a lot of types of hunters and in my experience a good percent of them are irresponsible dicks, a much lesser but everpresent percent are just deranged fucking maniacs who are literally sick in the head and nowadays an even lesser percent are genuine responsible respectful "good" hunters. Then there's everything inbetween.

A good percentage? Exactly how many hunters have you interacted with. There are around 7 billion people on this world. If even just 5% hunted in some manner that would be 350,000,000 people. So your telling me, you have interacted with a majority of this fraction of the population personally?

See the problem with this thread is how hostile and without valid facts it is. With the OP being blatantly aggressive and not supporting anything he said with more than opinion. And calling those who ask or don't agree fools. And now you making wild exaggerations. Half of us in this thread would love to talk about this, its just mind-numbingly agonizing doing in it such a manor.

You don't win hearts and minds like this.

 

[kecleon]

A good percentage? Exactly how many hunters have you interacted with. There are around 7 billion people on this world. If even just 5% hunted in some manner that would be 350,000,000 people. So your telling me, you have interacted with a majority of this fraction of the population personally?

i clearly wrote in my experience, no?

I didn't make any "wild exaggeration" mate. If anything I was restrained. I've seen a respected in the community fox hunter stamp on a bloodied exhausted vixens neck killing her then saying whoops and cutting her open and killing the cubs inside while joking about it with other hunters. I've heard stories people bragging about beating foxes to death with spades. "Respected" hunters bragging about trapping and selling badgers for dogfighting. This past season I had to kill a boar that had been shot with BIRD SHOT then left to die an agonizing death by some POS. I too (as OP) have occasionally come across mutilated animals. Last year I found a dead dog caught in a trap intended for a wolf. Obviously all completely illegal but hey who's gonna catch them?? Frequently hear people illegally hunting boar out of season orphaning young boar. . Retards running around shooting anything that moves. Bullet holes in houses gutters, windows. Piles of dead songbirds many protected.. I've overheard and been addressed in so many conversations of hunters bragging about sickening stuff. No one ever hears this stuff because no one in the hunting community despite all knowing about it none of the talk about it or try and do anything against the offenders.

I'm not saying all hunters shooters here I'm saying it seems more and more like it's the majority or an ever increasing percentage. I think in this day and age with all the possibilities we have to not need to hunt animals for food it takes a special type of person to WANT to do it and actively defend it. To be clear I'm not talking about the tiny minority of people who NEED to hunt for food. If I wanted meat or felt I needed it I too might come to the conclusion that hunting was among the most ethical ways to get it (behind say dumpster diving or roadkill). I wouldn't go online and start going on at other people about how hunting is good and I'm gonna go bag me a bear. I wouldn't encourage it. I wouldn't think it's a pleasant thing to do and people who do frankly I don't think I'm going to "win their hearts or minds" regardless.

I only got into this because I felt like OP while saying some stuff I didn't agree with or think was true overall had good intentions and his heart was in a good place but everyone was just picking him apart and winding him up over relatively little tiny details and the major thing was going overlooked probably because most people don't want to confront that and come up with stuff like saying it's "wildly exaggerating" to say many hunters do bad things.

My point is just that I think it's wrong to kill an animal that you don't need to to survive ie. for pleasure or enjoyment. It's wrong to kill an animal without respect. Without thinking about the life of that animal. Without acknowledging what you're doing. With hate instead of thankfulness. With disregard.

I'm pointing out a lot of hunters have no respect and many have a complete disrespect for the animals they hunt and I think that's fucked up.

I also know a lot of the otherwise "decent" hunters cover up for others instead of calling them out.

 

[kecleon]

And really all this shit about sources. who cares about sources. Sources are what? Media and science articles and bullshit like that. People just get paid to write that shit by interested parties one side or the other. For every source you find supporting your view of an issue they'll probably be one supporting the other. To be honest I'm more interested in individual peoples experience and opinions than some bullshit newpaper or science article or journal or whatever they're called that you want as a source. Valid facts aren't a real thing. Media is full of lies. Science is full of liars. What do you want? If I gave you a scientific article saying bucks are great role models to fawns would you believe it? I wouldn't! I can get you sources saying anything you can think of causes cancer and then sources saying half of it prevents it then more saying it has no impact. I can get sources saying almost any major issue is good and then others saying it's bad. Something is real and false. You just want everyone to just send each other links and see who has more?

Edit to say, I don't really give a fuck about sources really. This subject (hunting) winds me up and it stresses me out talking about about this shit because I've got strong opinions on it and it brings up really shitty strong emotions for me so I'm just gonna stay out of here now because I'll just end up berating people.

 

[Jsh]

And really all this shit about sources. who cares about sources. Sources are what? Media and science articles and bullshit like that. People just get paid to write that shit by interested parties one side or the other. For every source you find supporting your view of an issue they'll probably be one supporting the other. To be honest I'm more interested in individual peoples experience and opinions than some bullshit newpaper or science article or journal or whatever they're called that you want as a source. Valid facts aren't a real thing. Media is full of lies. Science is full of liars. What do you want? If I gave you a scientific article saying bucks are great role models to fawns would you believe it? I wouldn't! I can get you sources saying anything you can think of causes cancer and then sources saying half of it prevents it then more saying it has no impact. I can get sources saying almost any major issue is good and then others saying it's bad. Something is real and false. You just want everyone to just send each other links and see who has more?

Edit to say, I don't really give a fuck about sources really. This subject (hunting) winds me up and it stresses me out talking about about this shit because I've got strong opinions on it and it brings up really shitty strong emotions for me so I'm just gonna stay out of here now because I'll just end up berating people.

So, if the sources are wrong who should we believe? Should I believe OP or you blindly? Should I just take an internet strangers word that all they say is true? People don't want to take someones word without anything to back it up.

Do you really think you can get people to change their minds and opinions when OP and yourself present yourselves in such a manner? When your belligerent it doesn't make your stance any stronger, its hurts it.

 

[Ranger]

I'm not hating on something I don't know. I was brung up in a fishing shooting hunting house, most my childhood friends parents were farmers and keen hunters, small village lots of farm land lots of nearby woods and forest.. Until i was probably 15 and learned to think for myself i was shooting birds rabbit fox. Deer in season arranged duck and pheasant with family. Ive been around hunters and hunting most my life. e ven now im mostly in the countryside where its ever present. I don't specifically know BEAR hunting sure but I know HUNTERS. If you as well know hunters then don't give me the whole act we're all responsible as fuck and everyone always get clean kills and pretend like it's not brutal as fuck. So it's illegal to shoot a sow with cubs. You think that means it don't happen? You think people really report? is it controlled? It can be hard to tell the sex sometimes? I think you mean like always. Even experts on bear struggle when not real close---- so your average hunter? Watch and be sure? How long are you going to watch and be sure? How many hunters are doing that? Spend time and check. Like you're just following a fucking bear around all day without realising and you think its gona lead you to its cub)s)? Or it being followed/watched isn't going to fuck with its behavior.

Whatever man. There's a lot of types of hunters and in my experience a good percent of them are irresponsible dicks, a much lesser but everpresent percent are just deranged fucking maniacs who are literally sick in the head and nowadays an even lesser percent are genuine responsible respectful "good" hunters. Then there's everything inbetween.

But if you need to hunt a bear to survive and you're a responsible hunter not just front and then some fucking cowboy piece of shit when you're actually out there. I'm just saying I personally think its bullshit you're allowed to do that and if I saw you I'd sabotage your hunt.

I will watch long enough to be 100% or not take a shot(that's what spotting scopes are for) it isn't all about killing something... I guarantee I've spent more time in the bush than 99% of hunters and will gladly report in detail any poaching or abuses. There will always be bad apples but you cannot paint everyone with the same brush and your attitude is toxic. You speak of boars and pheasent so you must be way down in mainland US and things are a lot different that far south. We already get enough wack job americans coming through thinking they own the place, please stay out of my country(Canada) your kind are not welcome. Respectful visitors from the states are always welcome. Anyone who interferes with a legitimate hunt here can and will be charged let alone whatever the pissed off hunter does... Besides you think your going to just sneak up behind someone solo hunting bear to sabotage their hunt like they aren't watching their back? Let alone anyone with military training....

 

[TheWindAndRain]

See the problem with this thread is how hostile and without valid facts it is. With the OP being blatantly aggressive and not supporting anything he said with more than opinion.

Yeah OP NEVER PROVIDED ANY FACTS. All the facts and statistics I provided (which no one else has) from multiple countries and this guy says theres no facts? Why bother participating if youre going to selectively read and pretend the evidence doesnt exist? Furthermore you have provided nothing to this conversation. Just repeatedly nitpicking parts out and ignoring the valid ones. How stupid are you? Lmfao