Preparing for the collapse of society....

[Diagaro]

Yea go ahead and start some shit, you'll disapear into a black hood like people did in V for vendetta.
though its in the american constituion the right to remove government that we are unhappy with if you oppose the man you will be gotten rid of and called a terrorist.
FMA!

 

[Pheonix]

Just do it now then. The more conflict we have now the closer we get to apocalypse and the closer you get to your dream.

that's a stupid idea. the chance of success is incredibly higher after the fall of society, when there are no police or military defending this country. and lets face it, right now it's Mexico thats ripe for the picking, I'd stand a better chances against the drug cartels then the US military. witch is another thing you don't understand if the US government falls apart the Mexican drug lords will try to invade and conquer the US.

I applaud your non-violence, but non-violence works much better with a society that is designed to suppress violent acts. but when it happens I'm afraid that it will only be a couple of years of fighting and then a new society will emerge. unfortunately this new society will be pretty damn close to the one we got right now for the simple fact that it's what most people know and are comfortable with. after all that you non-violent people will never again be longing for the collapse of society when you realize just how much bloodshed that entails. if anything the fall of society will only cause a shift in the political hierarchy of the region (and that might not be in the peoples best interest)

I believe that if society falls then I'm going to take measures to influence the next society. if you are giving the chance to change society for the better and go live in the woods instead then whats to stop the new society from treating all you dirty, homeless, hippies much the same way as they do now? whats to stop them from passing sit/lie laws again and making it illegal to be poor?

I hope your not one of them people that complains about how the politics of our society need to change for the better, when you just admitted that if given the opportunity to change the society for the better you will choose to do nothing.

I believe that in times of anarchy if you choose not to defend yourself then you are choosing to die.

 

[Diagaro]

Well I tell ya what, wile were being serious about this dystopian survival scenario. so far as people have shown I would band together with nobody and hold up somewhere with months worth of collected Improvised munitions, Assault weapons, and IED's (+ food and water) on the most treacherous lands I could get a salvaged military Humvee into. Pitfall/caltrop/pendulum trap the whole perimeter, and anything that moves gets blown the fuck away. Look for my flag in the woods, If you see it turn back - You would never get a chance to strike at me Not even a 1000 man militia would make it past the first perimeter defense to even fathom the nature of the secondary defense perimeter nor have a direction to fire weapons in last ditch effort to hit me with a stray bullet, Im talkin rambo/McGyver/Wolverines from the movie Red dawn all in one - Bitches don't know about my guerrilla warfare tactics!

 

[lowerarchy]

that's a stupid idea. the chance of success is incredibly higher after the fall of society, when there are no police or military defending this country. and lets face it, right now it's Mexico thats ripe for the picking, I'd stand a better chances against the drug cartels then the US military. witch is another thing you don't understand if the US government falls apart the Mexican drug lords will try to invade and conquer the US.

I guess that depends on the specific conditions of the apocalypse.

I doubt the cartels would be in business anymore if the US was suddenly an anarchy. After all, their whole business model is based on the idea that the Gov't will enforce prohibition.

I applaud your non-violence, but non-violence works much better with a society that is designed to suppress violent acts. but when it happens I'm afraid that it will only be a couple of years of fighting and then a new society will emerge. unfortunately this new society will be pretty damn close to the one we got right now for the simple fact that it's what most people know and are comfortable with. after all that you non-violent people will never again be longing for the collapse of society when you realize just how much bloodshed that entails.

I'm not a pacifist. Of course I'd fight if I had to. I just think the survivalist mentality is unrealistic. Look at Somalia - the vast majority of those people just go about their days as if it was a normal state. The tiny minority are warlords. Even the pirates try not to kill people if they can avoid it. Most people are doing exactly what I said I'd be doing. Granted, they're not post-apocalyptic, they're just without a functioning government, but the principle is the same.

I hope your not one of them people that complains about how the politics of our society need to change for the better, when you just admitted that if given the opportunity to change the society for the better you will choose to do nothing.

I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. If anything, you're the one choosing to withdraw into hermidom with your militia and your walled compound farm thing. I said I'd try to stay in a community of people and work with them. It seems to me that what you'd be trying to do is replicate exactly the same kind of abusive kleptocracy that we are currently living under but with you as the master - hardly a change for the better.

And come to think of it if you're located at such a good spot and you're robbing trucks and fucking with everyone, doesn't it stand to reason that the people who are sending/receiving those trucks are going to automatically have more resources than you do? They are the ones that have enough economic strength to fill trucks, after all. And that they'll use some of these resources to defend their stuff or come get you?

 

[lowerarchy]

Well I tell ya what, wile were being serious about this dystopian survival scenario. so far as people have shown I would band together with nobody and hold up somewhere with months worth of collected Improvised munitions, Assault weapons, and IED's (+ food and water) on the most treacherous lands I could get a salvaged military Humvee into. Pitfall/caltrop/pendulum trap the whole perimeter, and anything that moves gets blown the fuck away. Look for my flag in the woods, If you see it turn back - You would never get a chance to strike at me Not even a 1000 man militia would make it past the first perimeter defense to even fathom the nature of the secondary defense perimeter nor have a direction to fire weapons in last ditch effort to hit me with a stray bullet, Im talkin rambo/McGyver/Wolverines from the movie Red dawn all in one - Bitches don't know about my guerrilla warfare tactics!

No offense, dude, but this is exactly the scenario that I think wouldn't work. What about the people that live in the area? Don't you think they'd have something to say about that? And they do live there, some of them for their whole lives, and they'd know the terrain much better than you will, so they'd probably be able to find their way past your traps and stuff (which, if the land is so treacherous, how will you get earth-moving equipment in there? Airlift? If you can drive it in then an armored vehicle can drive in too.) and take all your shit?
They're pretty much forced to attack you if they're farming food because they know you must have only a certain amount of supplies and when that runs out it's logical to assume you'll come attack them.

 

[Pheonix]

And come to think of it if you're located at such a good spot and you're robbing trucks and fucking with everyone, doesn't it stand to reason that the people who are sending/receiving those trucks are going to automatically have more resources than you do? They are the ones that have enough economic strength to fill trucks, after all. And that they'll use some of these resources to defend their stuff or come get you?

actually cutting off a community's resources is a very successful military strategy. example, when Genghis Khan made it to the walled city of Beijing he couldn't get past the wall so instead he robbed all the supply trucks. when everyone in the city started starving to death many left the city and joined Khan just to get some food. Khan feed them and put them on the front lines so that if the Chinamen fight back against their invaders they will just be killing other Chinamen not the Mongolian horde. after some time the starving Chinamen rebelled against their own Emperor and gave the city to Khan.

I guess they finally realized taxes were better then death, I think a post-apocalyptic community will quickly realize the same. for me, preparing for the collapse of society means learning military strategy.

 

[lowerarchy]

actually cutting off a community's resources is a very successful military strategy. example, when Genghis Khan made it to the walled city of Beijing he couldn't get past the wall so instead he robbed all the supply trucks. when everyone in the city started starving to death many left the city and joined Khan just to get some food. Khan feed them and put them on the front lines so that if the Chinamen fight back against their invaders they will just be killing other Chinamen not the Mongolian horde. after some time the starving Chinamen rebelled against their own Emperor and gave the city to Khan.

That makes sense in the context of monarchies and functioning societies. I can't imagine what apocalypse would leave cities populated and functioning (one or the other but not both for any significant period of time) for anyone to lay siege to. In all likelihood a warlord is going to be on the receiving end of that strategy. Reason being that everyone in the neighborhood knows where you are ("yeah, they're up on that hilltop with all the floodlights and vehicles and turrets and shit by the crossroads") but you won't really know where they are, plus you're dependent on a lot more stuff than they will be, typical guerilla warfare scenario. Typical modern-day United States fortified embassy scenario, come to think of it.

Yeah, I'm just going to set up a blacksmiths/machinists shop down by where two rivers meet. I get attacked by barbarian hordes, I get attacked by barbarian hordes. Hopefully the locals will help me out in exchange for bending metal and making knives. Hopefully we'll be able to put it out there that we don't really have anything so when the barbarian hordes ask "what's down there by the river?" people will tell them "nothing, it's a bunch of inbred hicks. You should check out the compound on the hill instead." Not wishing you any ill-luck in your PA lifestyle Pheonix, just taking a strategic stand.

Another question: what are you going to do when all your shit breaks down as it eventually will? Me, I'll be spending my time working out ways of doing things that I don't need a factory and a bunch of engineers to manufacture spare parts and materials for all my stuff, like horses and simple machinery. When your humvee breaks and there aren't any around to salvage from, then you're fucked if that's an inherent part of your plan.

 

[Pheonix]

I can't imagine what apocalypse would leave cities populated and functioning? why does it have to be both? why can't someone move into the city after everyone dies? only anarchists want to destroy cities and I honestly believe that anarchists won't have anything to do with the events of the collapse. many very powerful governments have created bombs that will kill all life forms in a certain radius from ground zero but not harm any of the inanimate objects (like buildings and bridges) the reasoning for this is so the cities can once again be used.

I'm not offended by your strategy of sending people after me, but if you are going to try to tell people that there's nothing of value in your little camp then you shouldn't have mentioned the river (ain't water the most important of resources). if a thirsty traveler comes and asks for a drink from the river or to fetch a pail of water will you turn them away or offer some help? would you let them enter your camp? now here's the kicker, what if that traveler was me or one of my soldiers doing some recon work on your camp.

I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just trying to help everyone better prepare for the collapse. a lot of people seem to think that when the collapse happens the worst will be behind us, but I doubt that will be the case cause once the leaders lose their power then someone else will try to become the new leader. in order to gain such power they will undoubtedly use war-like tactics against anyone that opposes them. in our little scenario you might think of me as the enemy but the scenario might change and we might even team up to defend ourselves against a powerful oppressor.

my point in arguing is that many people may think the collapse will bring peace and good will towards man, but the odds are much higher that it will be a gruesome bloodbath. I'm just saying you can hope for peace but you still need to be prepared for war. as for your question about how am I going to fix my shit? truthfully you question confuses me a little as I don't understand how it would really be affected (maybe a little) by the collapse. it's not society that fixes cars and machines it's people with the skill to do so. I doubt the collapse will kill off all engineers and mechanics and I also doubt that all the billions and billions of cars will just disappear from the roads, parking lots, and junkyards. honestly I don't think it will be that hard to find a mechanic and a spare part. as for the supply robbing strategy not working in the post-collapse era. that strategy is not only effective against walled communities but also effective against communities that are too powerful for a straight up invasion. you might not think your little camp is a city but it doesn't matter. the strategy is not to attack cities but to attack communities they just call it an attack on the city but its really an attack on the community that lives in the city. thus your camp, my camp and everyone's camp is a potential target.

 

[lowerarchy]

Fuck it let's just move to detroit.

 

[Scotty]

If I ain't in Alaska I'll just be part of a thieving cannibal man hunting caveman crew. That is.. if I can survive the first wave of whatever.

 

[freakstorm]

oooh, this thread has turned into a very exciting read. thanks folks.

 

[outskirts]

I think almost everyone on this site is already far more prepared than most people.
When civilization finally collapses... and it will, us "have nots" will be the ones to
survive not the "haves". The haves will be so at a loss mentally and hoarded
supplies will only last them so long, water, food, ammo, etc. They not being as
skilled as us at surviving... will be the ones to eat each other!

 

[Onemanbandit]

Anyone considered like, nuclear fallout? Say someone drops a nuke somewhere inbettween seattle and california, then you've gotradiation in the sky getting caught by air patterns, in the ocean being caught by currents. I've seen a couple documentaries on what it would be like and I guess that means we're all fucked. Is there even a way to filter radiation out of water? marijuana filters out radiation when it grows naturally, they planted it all over Chernobyl. I guess I'd just get as many likeminded people as I could and get a bunch of boats and go to some island somewhere, build shelters, farm, livestock, fishing and whatnot. Boat raids would be a good time. It all depends on the level of crisis I guess.

 

[Onemanbandit]

get a yacht and go to disneyland.