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Hillbilly Castro

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It's likely a deep state op, IMO. They created this in large part as a response to a moderation team on /r/anarchism (including myself) which became less and less enamored with the culture of witch-hunts, censorship, and identity politics. They seem to vociferously maintain the necessity of creating ideological echo chambers and aesthetic, fashionista iterations of the anarchist project. I have my reasons for believing they are a deep state op, but I'd be very skeptical of the sclerotic and anxious politics of that site.
 
N

Notmyname

I deleted myself
@Hillbilly Castro it's funny I checked it out and was thinking of what you told me about being approached by the state. It seems like a manufactured echo chamber to me. Worse than reddit.
 
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stormcrow

stormcrow

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So the simple fact of being involved with any leftist movement is that there will be infiltration and if that was your concern I would say you had a legitimate one. However the site isn't developed or hosted in the US, so the site being some sort of conspiracy to entrap leftists is unlikely. That in mind, you should treat it the same as you should treat this forum or any other internet community where you don't really know the people you are talking to. If you don't want to check it out because of some tin foil hat reason that keeps you supporting sites that require javascript and cdns that track everything you do on other sites to build a profile on you, that is cool, but I think an echo chamber for leftist ideas is quite refreshing, since the entire Internet has become an echo chamber for Neo-Nazi alt-right shit posters. This is one site that is not censoring leftist content while claiming free speech rights for Nazi's. The people that wrote it are people I have been connected to on other platforms for a long time. I don't know them any better than they know me, but they are all people that have been active in various communities for years. It seems they decided to splinter from reddit due to hostile right wing take-overs of large chunks of that site. Should you view the site with some degree of skepticism? Yes, as you should with everything on the internet. Is it likely a site manufactured by a three letter agency to attack leftists? It is possible, but not too likely if you ask me. If anything it is a really poor way of doing that since there is already a real sense of community and info sharing there, especially on topics like opsec. If anything big brother helped us to spread information on how to protect yourself from big brother. I do feel personally invested in the site because I do mod some subs. Am I going to share personal information? No. I think as long as you use tor and keep javascript turned off and you don't over-share, you will be as fine on there as you would be on reddit. I think it is great what they have done with it. They have lived up to my expectation on moderating content. Maybe I will be eating these words, but I really don't think so.
 
N

Notmyname

I deleted myself
So the simple fact of being involved with any leftist movement is that there will be infiltration and if that was your concern I would say you had a legitimate one. However the site isn't developed or hosted in the US, so the site being some sort of conspiracy to entrap leftists is unlikely. That in mind, you should treat it the same as you should treat this forum or any other internet community where you don't really know the people you are talking to. If you don't want to check it out because of some tin foil hat reason that keeps you supporting sites that require javascript and cdns that track everything you do on other sites to build a profile on you, that is cool, but I think an echo chamber for leftist ideas is quite refreshing, since the entire Internet has become an echo chamber for Neo-Nazi alt-right shit posters. This is one site that is not censoring leftist content while claiming free speech rights for Nazi's. The people that wrote it are people I have been connected to on other platforms for a long time. I don't know them any better than they know me, but they are all people that have been active in various communities for years. It seems they decided to splinter from reddit due to hostile right wing take-overs of large chunks of that site. Should you view the site with some degree of skepticism? Yes, as you should with everything on the internet. Is it likely a site manufactured by a three letter agency to attack leftists? It is possible, but not too likely if you ask me. If anything it is a really poor way of doing that since there is already a real sense of community and info sharing there, especially on topics like opsec. If anything big brother helped us to spread information on how to protect yourself from big brother. I do feel personally invested in the site because I do mod some subs. Am I going to share personal information? No. I think as long as you use tor and keep javascript turned off and you don't over-share, you will be as fine on there as you would be on reddit. I think it is great what they have done with it. They have lived up to my expectation on moderating content. Maybe I will be eating these words, but I really don't think so.
That's all fine and good. If it's a good service for you, perfect. I was simply stating that it is not really a service I would be interested in using at this time. I'm not a huge fan of online political conversations in general. I use this site as much as I do because I've met Matt personally and spent a bit of time with him. I'm comfortable that there are no ulterior motives here. As far as entrapment, that was never my concern at all. More along the lines of propegating and encouraging ideas that have no dissenting opinions. Just seems like a negative place to be. If it works for you great. And I do encourage people to check it out. It's just not for me. Same reason I got off reddit as a matter of fact. Each sub is too dedicated and any outside opinion is usually shut down. Maybe that's what they want in their respective online community but I think it's not extremely productive to a civil and informed discussion where people can learn other points of view. This is a problem with most online communies no doubt. Which is why I don't bother with most of them. To each their own.
 
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stormcrow

stormcrow

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That's all fine and good. If it's a good service for you, perfect. I was simply stating that it is not really a service I would be interested in using at this time. I'm not a huge fan of online political conversations in general. I use this site as much as I do because I've met Matt personally and spent a bit of time with him. I'm comfortable that there are no ulterior motives here. As far as entrapment, that was never my concern at all. More along the lines of propegating and encouraging ideas that have no dissenting opinions. Just seems like a negative place to be. If it works for you great. And I do encourage people to check it out. It's just not for me. Same reason I got off reddit as a matter of fact. Each sub is too dedicated and any outside opinion is usually shut down. Maybe that's what they want in their respective online community but I think it's not extremely productive to a civil and informed discussion where people can learn other points of view. This is a problem with most online communies no doubt. Which is why I don't bother with most of them. To each their own.
That is totally fair and I think that is an excellent point. I am not going to try to push it on anybody that isn't into it, but I thought some people here might dig it. I do agree that we need spaces where we can engage with more diversity in thought. I also understand what you mean by sub reddits being pretty incestuous and not too welcoming. So far I think raddit is small enough to avoid that at this stage, but it will likely become like that more over time. I understand its not going to be everybody's thing, but for me I am tired of arguing beliefs with people who are so far indoctrinated that you can't have logical debate. I think the left has enough diversity of thought and ideas(hence the whole circular firing squad thing) to satisfy my desire to be exposed to new ideas. I have engaged various ideologies for a really long time, so I just don't want the conflict of having those really crazy outliers to debate. Thats my perspective. For other people like me in that regard it is great, but you have totally valid reasons for not being into it and I totally respect that.
 

Hillbilly Castro

Wanderer
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
521
Hometown
Westernville, NY
My main contention comes from personal experience with some of those who started Raddit, when I was a mod on /r/anarchism (many of these people left reddit after the /r/leftwithsharpedge drama). I found nearly all of them to be new accounts engaged almost entirely in trolling and witch-hunting, who virtually never contributed any content to the sub that did not relate directly to banning users or silencing discussions with dogma. I became convinced that their rhetoric could not serve any purpose other than to promote the most flaccid and ineffectual sort of discourse in the anarchist community, and noticed that in producing this kind of environment on the forum, they operated as a team, usually posting 24/7 to sway the climate of the community toward deliriously ideological ends, where everything splintered into a dozen different factions, and everyone was out for one another. A sensible and rational individual would abandon the space - I didn't only because I was a mod, and hoped to revitalize the space. Eventually many people did abandon the space - only to head over to the space that was being heavily promoted, if not actually started, by a team of sketchy trolls.

Another incident was in the back of my mind during this stuff. Last year, a new account that had a post history strictly shilling for Hillary Clinton offered me $600 to buy my account. I didn't accept, but it served as a reminder: The state once, when we were younger, did not know what to do with the internet or how to manipulate public opinions on it at all, much less as surgically as they had learned to via TV and radio. Now, I believe they understand. For example, monsanto shill accounts flock to every mention of the term "GMO" on reddit. Hillary accounts did the same thing during the election, during working hours. People in the state and in corporations are likely being paid to use Reddit to influence discussions in their favor. Why would the deeper elements of the USG not do the same thing? No one can prove it's them, they can operate anonymously, and through a trickling effect, they can watch the discussion move exactly where they need it to.

This being what it is, I'm of the mind that the deep state is over "entrapping leftists", as they used to. They still are doing it, of course, but now it is no longer their mainstay. Now, their end is mostly to manipulate anarchist discourse to be as self-defeating as possible.

Modern anarchism is a disaster zone. Dogmatists cling religiously to their doctrines in a fashion no different from that of a Republican. Anarchism is now a patch you put on your vest, and a symbol you wear to state that you'll be the most lily-livered loon in the room, heaving a trough of guilt around to dump on everyone one categorizes as "the enemy". Bookchin tells us to get a job, Black Rose federation historically re-enacts 1939, and the identity politics crowd doxxes their enemies into submission. Are we really this innately self-defeating? Are we this foolish? Or were we deliberately misled down this path by our enemies?

Anyway, this is a topic that gets me quite worked up. Call me a "tin foil hat" type as much as you please, but if you think the state is not moving the narrative towards division and ineffectiveness, you've got to be thinking quite wishfully. And to close, I have many reasons to suspect that the Raddit people are just such operators.
 
OP
stormcrow

stormcrow

Newbie
Joined
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Messages
52
Hometown
Philadelphia, PA
Website
deposed.bandcamp.com
My main contention comes from personal experience with some of those who started Raddit, when I was a mod on /r/anarchism (many of these people left reddit after the /r/leftwithsharpedge drama). I found nearly all of them to be new accounts engaged almost entirely in trolling and witch-hunting, who virtually never contributed any content to the sub that did not relate directly to banning users or silencing discussions with dogma. I became convinced that their rhetoric could not serve any purpose other than to promote the most flaccid and ineffectual sort of discourse in the anarchist community, and noticed that in producing this kind of environment on the forum, they operated as a team, usually posting 24/7 to sway the climate of the community toward deliriously ideological ends, where everything splintered into a dozen different factions, and everyone was out for one another. A sensible and rational individual would abandon the space - I didn't only because I was a mod, and hoped to revitalize the space. Eventually many people did abandon the space - only to head over to the space that was being heavily promoted, if not actually started, by a team of sketchy trolls.

Another incident was in the back of my mind during this stuff. Last year, a new account that had a post history strictly shilling for Hillary Clinton offered me $600 to buy my account. I didn't accept, but it served as a reminder: The state once, when we were younger, did not know what to do with the internet or how to manipulate public opinions on it at all, much less as surgically as they had learned to via TV and radio. Now, I believe they understand. For example, monsanto shill accounts flock to every mention of the term "GMO" on reddit. Hillary accounts did the same thing during the election, during working hours. People in the state and in corporations are likely being paid to use Reddit to influence discussions in their favor. Why would the deeper elements of the USG not do the same thing? No one can prove it's them, they can operate anonymously, and through a trickling effect, they can watch the discussion move exactly where they need it to.

This being what it is, I'm of the mind that the deep state is over "entrapping leftists", as they used to. They still are doing it, of course, but now it is no longer their mainstay. Now, their end is mostly to manipulate anarchist discourse to be as self-defeating as possible.

Modern anarchism is a disaster zone. Dogmatists cling religiously to their doctrines in a fashion no different from that of a Republican. Anarchism is now a patch you put on your vest, and a symbol you wear to state that you'll be the most lily-livered loon in the room, heaving a trough of guilt around to dump on everyone one categorizes as "the enemy". Bookchin tells us to get a job, Black Rose federation historically re-enacts 1939, and the identity politics crowd doxxes their enemies into submission. Are we really this innately self-defeating? Are we this foolish? Or were we deliberately misled down this path by our enemies?

Anyway, this is a topic that gets me quite worked up. Call me a "tin foil hat" type as much as you please, but if you think the state is not moving the narrative towards division and ineffectiveness, you've got to be thinking quite wishfully. And to close, I have many reasons to suspect that the Raddit people are just such operators.
I would understand what you are saying more if that is what I saw happening. At the moment I see a fairly positive community. People are not bickering and infighting as much as most anarchist communities I have been a part of. I really do get a sense of some left unity for the first in my life. That isn't to say everybody is happy all the time on raddit, but I just don't really see anybody starting trouble for the sake of starting trouble.

I think doxxing can be a really powerful thing to do. People like to hide behind their firewall thinking that there are no consequences for the things they say. To be shown publicly for what you are is often really intense, especially if you have been hiding aspects of who you are from the people you interact with like your boss, your family, your neighbors, etc. I think we should be careful about exposing people that way, but as a tactic, it can be just as effective black blocing a rally. So I am not entirely against the idea of doxxing, especially doxxing Nazis.

I just think if there was a shadow government behind raddit trying to create divisions in the community, they have done a horrible job. I am not seeing those fissures opening up. People have their own spaces to talk about ideas that they are passionate about, but they don't seem to be conflicting with one another at the moment. All the adjectives are mostly getting along.

I think reddit is more on the radar of the Hillary and Monsanto shills than a small offshoot community is. I am sure that there will be some drama in the future as nothing stays awesome forever, but I just don't see any of the people working on this site as provocateurs and I have been friends with many of them on other platforms for years. It is cool if you have some personal beef with them that makes you want to stay away and makes you suspicious, I am not really privy to that drama because I never really liked the anarchism sub on reddit. It seemed under-moderated a lot of times, in that alt-right people were constantly infiltrating and posting stupid shit. It turned into a stupid pepe meme war from what I could tell and before all that it seemed very cliquey. I never really got in the club, so I wasn't really active on there. I don't think it is the same deal on raddit and that could just be naivety on my part, but I tend to be pretty suspicious of people and closed off, so I don't think that is it.

Either way, I get pretty instantly turned off by mention of the deep state. That is just a really Alexy Jonesy term, so pardon the tin foil hat comment. My point remains the same though, I don't think the deep state is investing in projects to create more leftist unity. If that was the result of their project, I think they'd have shuttered it by now. Reddit was/is full of infiltrators and you absolutely have to keep that context in mind when analyzing any of the conflict on that board, much of which is probably contrived and injected for the purpose of fracturing the left even further. That circular firing squad is still quite active on the anarchism subreddit. I'd say let them have reddit and move on and one day when they successfully co-opt raddit, we adapt by moving on again... and so on... and so on. As people that are generally not allowed to settle in any one place by circumstance of life, we have to become more adaptable. I am moving forward, hope some of you people come along and I hope and truly believe I'm not leading anybody astray when I say that it seems like a cool community... I have a final point to demonstrate that, I haven't seen anything get down voted yet. If people don't like something they just move along. It's actually really polite. I am sure if something egregious gets posted it will get down voted, but I also would expect the mods to take it down pretty quickly.

Anyway, I've been a lot more active over there than I have been on here lately. Find me in https://raddit.me/f/Crust putting together a collection of links to dbeat, crust and other heavier hardcore. Or don't thats cool too. I'm not gonna shill for these guys anymore. I get it, most of you think it is a terrible site. Sorry to waste your time.
 
N

Notmyname

I deleted myself
I get it, most of you think it is a terrible site. Sorry to waste your time.
don't be so self defeating about this. Only two people said not interested. I still encouraged checking it out. That's only most in the sense that 2 commenters are not into it, 2 seem indifferent. Don't let that speak for all of stp. Some people might be interested.
 
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Matt Derrick

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don't be so self defeating about this. Only two people said not interested. I still encouraged checking it out. That's only most in the sense that 2 commenters are not into it, 2 seem indifferent. Don't let that speak for all of stp. Some people might be interested.
Agreed, I'd never heard of the website until this thread, but it sounds like it could be interesting, who knows. Like others I'm not a fan of online political discourse, but that doesn't mean others aren't and that it isn't worth sharing here.

I also like hearing the two different sides and opinions, it's nice to have a little background on it.
 

SEMICHRIST

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My main contention comes from personal experience with some of those who started Raddit, when I was a mod on /r/anarchism (many of these people left reddit after the /r/leftwithsharpedge drama). I found nearly all of them to be new accounts engaged almost entirely in trolling and witch-hunting, who virtually never contributed any content to the sub that did not relate directly to banning users or silencing discussions with dogma. I became convinced that their rhetoric could not serve any purpose other than to promote the most flaccid and ineffectual sort of discourse in the anarchist community, and noticed that in producing this kind of environment on the forum, they operated as a team, usually posting 24/7 to sway the climate of the community toward deliriously ideological ends, where everything splintered into a dozen different factions, and everyone was out for one another. A sensible and rational individual would abandon the space - I didn't only because I was a mod, and hoped to revitalize the space. Eventually many people did abandon the space - only to head over to the space that was being heavily promoted, if not actually started, by a team of sketchy trolls.

Another incident was in the back of my mind during this stuff. Last year, a new account that had a post history strictly shilling for Hillary Clinton offered me $600 to buy my account. I didn't accept, but it served as a reminder: The state once, when we were younger, did not know what to do with the internet or how to manipulate public opinions on it at all, much less as surgically as they had learned to via TV and radio. Now, I believe they understand. For example, monsanto shill accounts flock to every mention of the term "GMO" on reddit. Hillary accounts did the same thing during the election, during working hours. People in the state and in corporations are likely being paid to use Reddit to influence discussions in their favor. Why would the deeper elements of the USG not do the same thing? No one can prove it's them, they can operate anonymously, and through a trickling effect, they can watch the discussion move exactly where they need it to.

This being what it is, I'm of the mind that the deep state is over "entrapping leftists", as they used to. They still are doing it, of course, but now it is no longer their mainstay. Now, their end is mostly to manipulate anarchist discourse to be as self-defeating as possible.

Modern anarchism is a disaster zone. Dogmatists cling religiously to their doctrines in a fashion no different from that of a Republican. Anarchism is now a patch you put on your vest, and a symbol you wear to state that you'll be the most lily-livered loon in the room, heaving a trough of guilt around to dump on everyone one categorizes as "the enemy". Bookchin tells us to get a job, Black Rose federation historically re-enacts 1939, and the identity politics crowd doxxes their enemies into submission. Are we really this innately self-defeating? Are we this foolish? Or were we deliberately misled down this path by our enemies?

Anyway, this is a topic that gets me quite worked up. Call me a "tin foil hat" type as much as you please, but if you think the state is not moving the narrative towards division and ineffectiveness, you've got to be thinking quite wishfully. And to close, I have many reasons to suspect that the Raddit people are just such operators.
wow. i've been lamenting the state of leftist politics for years now, and you just gave me a brand new perspective. great food for thought. thanks for sharing. seems hopeless sometimes but you've definitely made a difference to me today.
 

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