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Coywolf

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I can't fucking believe this. Just want to give a heads up to everyone who will be attending future protests/calls to action. This is going to set a horrifying precedence for this ability to use firearms in 'self defense' during protests.

My advice is that we have to start fighting back. This is a HUGE win for militant fascism. Getting really fucking sick of this country's bullshit:

Kyle Rittenhouse found not guilty on all charges in Kenosha shootings - https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/19/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-friday/index.html



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Kyle Rittenhouse found not guilty on​

What we're covering here​

  • Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager accused of killing two people and shooting another during unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last summer has been found not guilty on all charges.
  • The 12-person jury deliberated for more than 25 hours over the course of four days.
  • Rittenhouse, now 18, was charged with five felonies.
3:42 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

Rittenhouse attorney says judge delivered fair trial​

From CNN's Josiah Ryan

22b2d3e7-34f1-4591-bb44-168e2fa317ab.jpg
Mark Richards, defense attorney (CNN)

Mark Richards, an attorney on Kyle Rittenhouse's defense team, dismissed criticism over Judge Bruce Schroeder's courtroom style, saying he believed the judge delivered a fair trial.
"I've never seen so much made of so little," he said of criticism of Schroeder's sometimes abrasive manner.
"Judge Schroeder gives you a fair trial as a defendant," he said. "You don't want him to sentence your client. But in this case, we were looking for a fair trial and if we lost we knew what was going to happen... so I would rather have a fair trial."
During the trial, Schroeder, who has a reputation as a tough jurist, had some heated exchanges with prosecutor Thomas Binger for his line of questioning as Rittenhouse testified.
Richards said that he had confidence in his self-defense case and believed that Schroeder had created an environment where his client could receive justice.
"I thought he gave us a fair trial," he added. "...So I think it's a good system. You know, I've got a trial in front of him, you know, a big case, and maybe in that one, I'll think he's unfair, but he's a fair judge."
Rittenhouse was acquitted on all five counts against him earlier today.

2:57 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

Prosecutor in Rittenhouse trial: "While we are disappointed with the verdict, it must be respected"​

From CNN's Omar Jimenez
cd54a065-4165-4412-998f-e89cbea910b3.jpg
Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger listens in court on November 16. (Sean Krajacic/The Kenosha News/Pool/AP)
Following the acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse on all charges, Kenosha County Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger, the lead prosecutor in this case, said in a statement that "while we are disappointed with the verdict, it must be respected."
“We are grateful to the members of the jury for their diligent and thoughtful deliberations. The Kenosha community has endured much over the past 15 months, and yet we remain resilient and strong. We ask that members of our community continue to express their opinions and feelings about this verdict in a civil and peaceful manner,” Binger continued.
3:46 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

Biden reacts to Rittenhouse verdict: "The jury system works, and we have to abide by it"​

From CNN's Nikki Carvajal
d80924a8-9171-4350-bbea-2c5402a939cf.jpg
(Alex Brandon/AP)
President Biden said he did not watch the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, but he stands by the verdict and the judicial system.
He made the comments upon returning to the White House after his routine physical exam at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center.
“I just heard a moment ago,” Biden said, when asked about Rittenhouse being found not guilty on all counts. “I didn’t watch the trial.”
Asked if he stood by his past comments equating Rittenhouse to a white supremacist, Biden didn’t directly answer.

“Look, I stand by what the jury has concluded,” he said. “The jury system works, and we have to abide by it.”
In a statement released by the White House later Friday afternoon, Biden acknowledged that the verdict “will leave many Americans feeling angry and concerned, myself included,” adding that everyone “must acknowledge that the jury has spoken.”
Biden said he “ran on a promise to bring Americans together, because I believe that what unites us is far greater than what divides us.”
“I know that we’re not going to heal our country’s wounds overnight, but I remain steadfast in my commitment to do everything in my power to ensure that every American is treated equally, with fairness and dignity, under the law,” the statement reads.


2:46 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

Wisconsin governor calls for peace and says state has "work to do" following Rittenhouse verdict​

From CNN’s Carma Hassan
Wisconsin Gov. Tony Evers said Kyle Rittenhouse’s trial has “reopened wounds that have not yet fully healed” and called for peace in Kenosha following the teen’s acquittal.
“No verdict will be able to bring back the lives of Anthony Huber and Joseph Rosenbaum, or heal Gaige Grosskreutz’s injuries, just as no verdict can heal the wounds or trauma experienced by Jacob Blake and his family. No ruling today changes our reality in Wisconsin that we have work to do toward equity, accountability, and justice that communities across our state are demanding and deserve,” Evers said in a statement.
Evers urged Wisconsinites to move forward and said “any efforts or actions aimed at sowing division are unwelcome in our state as they will only hinder that healing.”
3:02 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

Rittenhouse has a "huge sense of relief" following acquittal, says defense attorney​

From CNN's Josiah Ryan
Kyle Rittenhouse hugs one of his attorneys Corey Chirafisi after he is found not guilty on all counts on Friday. (Sean Krajacic/The Kenosha News/Pool/AP)
Mark Richards, Kyle Rittenhouse's defense attorney, said his client is eager to get on with his life and is feeling a great sense of relief following his acquittal on all five counts against him today.
"He wants to get on with his life," said Richards, speaking at a news conference outside the courthouse. "He has a huge sense of relief for what the jury did to him today. He wishes none of this would have ever happened."
Richards said Rittenhouse has had 24-hour security and does not anticipate that he will continue to live in the area.
"I think eventually some anonymity will come back to it," he said, adding Rittenhouse has ambitions to become a nurse.
Richards reiterated the defense's argument that Rittenhouse was not responsible for the violence that occurred that night in Kenosha.
"As he said when he testified, he did not start this and we're thankful, in more ways than one, that the jury finally got to hear the true story," he said.
2:44 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

Rittenhouse defense attorney says it "wasn't a close call" to put him on the stand​

From CNN's Elise Hammond
(CNN)
Mark Richards, one of the defense attorneys for Kyle Rittenhouse, said it "wasn't a close call" to put him on the stand.
"Had to put on him. It wasn't a close call," Richards said in an exchange with reporters after the verdict was read on Friday.
"At certain points we wondered whether we would put him on. We had a mock jury and we did two different jurors, one with him testifying and one without him testifying and it was substantially better when he testified," he added.

"In Wisconsin if you don't put a client on the stand, you're going to lose, period," Richards said.
2:44 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

CNN legal analyst on why the prosecution's case did not persuade the jury​

From CNN's Elise Hammond
(CNN)
Laura Coates, CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, said she was not surprised the jury acquitted Kyle Rittenhouse on all charges because of the jury instructions and the execution of the prosecution's argument.
The prosecutors were trying to make a case about an active shooter, arguing that everyone else who responded to Rittenhouse's actions that night were actually the one's acting in self-defense. Coates said, in the end, it wasn't compelling.
"That proved unpersuasive it seems to this particular jury for two reasons. One, Wisconsin is a place that has a gun culture that's not synonymous with criminal activity. The idea of saying you want to alienate a gun owner would not have been persuasive enough. The idea of saying, hey, they were acting in self-defense might have been compelling, except for the jury instruction," Coates explained.
She said the jury instruction said jurors had to look at the case through the eyes of then 17-year-old Rittenhouse, not in hindsight. The jurors had to access the reasonableness of Rittenhouse's actions and decide whether it was his belief that he had to use self-defense.
"When you saw him take the stand and explain why he himself thought he was in lethal danger at that point, that probably was the one that tipped the needle," Coates said.
"He believed that it was reasonable to do so and now the burden went back to the prosecution where it always should stay to say, hey, we have proven that he was not reasonable in his belief, that he was in a kill or be killed scenario," she added.
Wisconsin law requires that when a self-defense claim is raised, prosecutors must disprove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt, not the other way around as it is in other jurisdictions, Coates explained.
In order for the prosecution to successfully make its active shooter argument, attorneys would have had to present evidence that disproves Wisconsin's self-defense threshold, according to Coates.
"Of course, the two people who were killed might have been in a position to do so, but they couldn't testify, they were dead," she said, adding that the third person who was shot, Gaige Grosskreutz testified that Rittenhouse fired when Grosskreutz aimed his gun at him.
2:36 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

Rittenhouse jurors looked "fatigued" as verdict was read, reporter says​

From CNN's Brad Parks
As the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict was read Friday afternoon, "some jurors looked fatigued in the jury box," according to a pool reporter in court.
"The jury forewoman, in a jean jacket and wearing a face mask, handed the verdicts to a court official, who passed them to the judge for review," the reporter said.
"Some with their hands on their chins or rubbing their eyes. Others appeared ill-at-ease, shifting in their chairs or folding their arms across their chests," the reporter added.
Rittenhouse, the teenager accused of killing two people and shooting another during unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last summer was found not guilty on all five charges against him.
2:15 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021

These are the 5 charges Kyle Rittenhouse was acquitted of​

Kyle Rittenhouse reacts after being found not guilty on all counts on Friday. (Sean Krajacic/The Kenosha News/Pool/AP)

Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager accused of killing two people and shooting another during unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last summer has been found not guilty on all charges.
The jury of five men and seven women deliberated more than 25 hours over the past four days in a closely watched case.
If convicted on the most serious charge, Rittenhouse would have faced a mandatory sentence of life in prison.
These are the charges he was acquitted of:
Count 1: First-degree reckless homicide, use of a dangerous weapon

Count 1 states Rittenhouse recklessly caused the death of 36-year-old Joseph Rosenbaum under circumstances that showed utter disregard for human life.
Wisconsin law allows the use of deadly force only if "necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm."
Count 2: First-degree recklessly endangering safety, use of a dangerous weapon
Count 2 states Rittenhouse recklessly endangered the safety of Richard McGinniss — a journalist with the conservative Daily Caller — under circumstances that show utter disregard for human life.
Count 3: First-degree recklessly endangering safety, use of a dangerous weapon
Count 3 states Rittenhouse recklessly endangered the safety of an unknown male, referred to as "jump kick man" in court, under circumstances that show utter disregard for human life.
The man jumped at Rittenhouse at one point, trying to kick him and the teen opened fire. "I thought if I were to be knocked out, he would have stomped my face in if I didn't fire," he said. Rittenhouse fired at the man twice and missed.
Count 4: First-degree intentional homicide, use of a dangerous weapon
Count 4 states Rittenhouse caused the death of 26-year-old Anthony Huber, with intent to kill him. It's the most serious charge he faced, with a mandatory life sentence. Huber swung his skateboard at Rittenhouse after Rosenbaum was fatally shot.
Prosecutors asked that the jury also be instructed on second-degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless homicide and second-degree reckless homicide.
Defense attorneys objected to second-degree reckless homicide. The judge said he "embraced" the defense's argument. But he would likely allow lesser charges of second-degree intentional homicide and first-degree reckless homicide.
Count 5: Attempted first-degree intentional homicide, use of a weapon
Count 5 states Rittenhouse attempted to cause the death of 27-year-old Gaige Grosskreutz, with intent to kill him.
After shooting Huber, Rittenhouse testified, he saw Grosskreutz lunge at him and point a pistol at his head. Rittenhouse shot him, he testified. Grosskreutz was wounded.
Grosskreutz testified he pulled out his own firearm because he believed Rittenhouse was an active shooter.
Prosecutors asked for lesser charges of attempted second-degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless endangerment and second-degree reckless endangerment. Schroeder said he was inclined to agree with the prosecution.
Rittenhouse, wearing a dark jacket with a burgundy tie and shirt, stood behind the defense table as each not guilty verdict was read. He tried to hold back tears, then sobbed and appeared to collapse forward on the table, where he was held by one of his lawyers.
Judge Bruce Schroeder dismissed a misdemeanor weapons possession charge and a non-criminal curfew violation prior to deliberations.
Read more about how the trial unfolded here.
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Big George W

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I'd like to know what the jury was - and more importantly - was not allowed to consider in reaching their verdict.

No wonder as the original post here states, the jurors were not comfortable with all this:

Rittenhouse jurors looked "fatigued" as verdict was read, reporter says​

From CNN's Brad Parks
As the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict was read Friday afternoon, "some jurors looked fatigued in the jury box," according to a pool reporter in court.
"The jury forewoman, in a jean jacket and wearing a face mask, handed the verdicts to a court official, who passed them to the judge for review," the reporter said.
"Some with their hands on their chins or rubbing their eyes. Others appeared ill-at-ease, shifting in their chairs or folding their arms across their chests," the reporter added.
Rittenhouse, the teenager accused of killing two people and shooting another during unrest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last summer was found not guilty on all five charges against him.
2:15 p.m. ET, November 19, 2021


They know that by coming back with all not guilty verdicts that this would be something they all would have to live with forever.

I myself loath jury duty.

If I am to judge a person innocent or guilty - I want to know everything about the case, and not be told what I can and cannot consider.

My own opinion, this just set a very dangerous precedent.
 
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Just like with the Bundy's the prosecutor fucked up by not pursuing lesser charges and went for the big felonies, which were ultimately harder to prove. I'm also baffled that his mom hasn't gotten any legal issues over this, buy who knows, maybe time will tell.

I agree that this might embolden the wrong people, but keep in mind people were saying the same thing after Bernie Goetz walked after shooting 4 people on the nyc subway who spanged him.
 
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bip

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did you watch the videos? disagreeing with someones ideology doesnt mean you can stomp them dead in the street with no fucking consequences.
we could talk about why he was or wasnt there or whether we agree with him doing what he did to get there.
but he didnt threaten anyone, he didnt shoot at anyone, all he did was coordinate to protect buisinesses from being burned.
are we going to fucking sit here and say its ok to murder this person and then not prosecute anyone who did it just because hes on the "other side"
he was hit in the back of the head with a skateboard while running away
thats fucking deadly force, its legal to shoot someone who does that to you
the dude who he shot last POINTED A GUN AT HIM
ARE WE GOING TO BE THIS FUCKING DELUSIONAL BECAUSE OUR IDEOLOGY AND PEOPLE AROUND US SAY SO?
 

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if i wanna be the hero who fights what i percieve to be fascism am i gonna expect the court to go "you know that was really valiant, i guess you can just go around pointing guns at people and attempting murder. its really cool"
self defense is self defense. i dont really understand how people can let their ideology influence whats right in front of their face so much. it wasnt a fucking lynching. literally white people fighting white people over ideological shit. i cannot believe nobody else sees this and this is somehow about white supremacy
 
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did any of you watch the multiple videos of this? the only reason he was found innocent was the entire thing was recorded. it was self defense.
the police were nowhere, people were running around doing whatever the fuck, a LOT of them armed. they werent going to stop a bunch of randos from burning whatever they wanted. and they werent burning chase bank and starbucks.
 
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bip

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people HAD to take some direct action to defend their shit.
are small midwestern car lots integral in the oppression of people of color?
i was fucking there protesting like weeks before, all over that area but also in kenosha specifically.
what the fuck yall? is this really just because hes not a leftist?
 
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bip

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This verdict baffles me. I guess I shouldn’t have expected anything different from the American justice system, but this sets a horrible precedent.


If the Ahmaud Arbery verdict comes back not guilty as well, we essentially have legalized paramilitary vigilantism in America.
if we dont need the police, why does vigilatism concern you at all?
thats what happens when there arent enforcers, people protect themselves.
 
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bip

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"the justice system is evil, but it also needs to prosecute the people i dont like and dont agree with." are you sure you dont just want a better position within the system instead of its abolition? like, i just dont fucking understand. theres nothing wrong with stopping someone from taking your life. dude wasnt spraying bullets all over the place. im just kind of baffled like, should he have just let them take his gun from him? because he is on "the other side"
what the fuck is going on ?
is this literally just because medium and npr had articles saying something and submedia said it too so everyone is like "wow this person being allowed to defend themself from someone pointing a gun at them sets such a bad precedent, i cant believe he isnt in jail for life because he didnt left people stomp him to death in a furious rage."
what the fuck, you guys
 
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"what this means for paramilitary violence"
anyone can be part of the militia, militia literally just means armed citizenry of any state or background.
i do not understand why people would rather rely on the criminal justice system to defend them if they are so well educated on how fucked up it is. almost always leftist/anarchists talking like this too. talk about fucking cognitive dissonance.
"i want the government to punish people i dont agree with because thats justice to me"
grow up
 
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Idk anyone going to defend someone else’s property with an AR is a cop LARPer imo. Why tf did they hire teenagers with guns to defend their car dealership?

Yeah, you should be able to defend yourself, but if I wanna play bouncer and start brandishing a pistol in a rowdy bar it’s my own fault if I get my ass kicked and shooting their asses wouldn’t be “self defense”.

100% also the cops fault for pushing the protestors into militia members to do the shit they knew they couldn’t.

End of the day though, human lives always matter more than property. Who gives a fuck if they burnt down every car in that lot? That shits insured and doesn’t give some twerp the right to play judge, jury, and executioner.
 
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if we dont need the police, why does vigilatism concern you at all?
thats what happens when there arent enforcers, people protect themselves.
Because we’re not in a fantasy world where we can just magic away the current system in favor of anarchism. If the laws and cops are still going to exist for some people, I want them to be handed out equally. I’m not gonna cheer some dumbass getting off while other people go to prison for fighting back against their rapists.
 

Coywolf

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if we dont need the police, why does vigilatism concern you at all?
thats what happens when there arent enforcers, people protect themselves.
Dude, you are on the wrong fucking website.

This motherfucker crossed state lines, underage, with a semi automatic rifle...with the express purpose of going to an area with civil unrest.

There is Video evidence of him confirming premeditation before Kenosha..

The basis of self defense, is that you CANNOT GO LOOKNG FOR TROUBLE, ESPECIALLY ARMED, shoot someone and then be surprised when someone runs at you with a skateboard, legitimately believing you may be an active shooter.

Get. The. Fuck. Out. Of. Here. With that bullshit arguement.

If he was black, he would have been gunned down by police. I dare you to disagree with that.
 
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Coywolf

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did you watch the videos? disagreeing with someones ideology doesnt mean you can stomp them dead in the street with no fucking consequences.
Do you seriously not see the irony in this?
 
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bip

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ok so, you see someone with an ar at a protest then you try as hard as possible to disarm them while screaming that youre going to kill them right there, even when they run from you for a long time. then after pointing a fucking gun at them they shoot you.
why would you think your actions are legally justified, if not moral (kkk nazi whatever)
legally justified.
were not talking about whether it was wrong were talking about why a judge said "yeah you defended yourself from a fucking mob, im not gonna make you a felon for the rest of your life"
 
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