I bought an RV

DrewSTNY

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OK. I just listened to it on the laptop speakers, but I am going to have to plug in to pay attention better. I don't have my headphones with me at the moment.

Fan belts can make weird noises, for certain. The pulleys can be glazed and make new belts noisy which is really irritating. Old belts get dry and creaky, makes it sound like an old mattress rolling around under the hood.

The video for the bivy mentioned that he had seen scout troops with these and I thought it would be a good idea to encourage the boys to make some of their own gear. It saves $$ and gives them ownership of their stuff which is cool no matter where you are coming from. It does pack up small; for about a pound of weight, you've got a pretty rock solid and stealthy shelter if you use an earth-toned tarp. I'd like to try the Tyvek version, but something would have to be done with the white fabric. I wonder if it takes paint well?
 
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OK. I just listened to it on the laptop speakers, but I am going to have to plug in to pay attention better. I don't have my headphones with me at the moment.

Fan belts can make weird noises, for certain. The pulleys can be glazed and make new belts noisy which is really irritating. Old belts get dry and creaky, makes it sound like an old mattress rolling around under the hood.

The video for the bivy mentioned that he had seen scout troops with these and I thought it would be a good idea to encourage the boys to make some of their own gear. It saves $$ and gives them ownership of their stuff which is cool no matter where you are coming from. It does pack up small; for about a pound of weight, you've got a pretty rock solid and stealthy shelter if you use an earth-toned tarp. I'd like to try the Tyvek version, but something would have to be done with the white fabric. I wonder if it takes paint well?

I had to put my headphones on max volume to hear it (but my hearing is bad, and they aren't very loud)

Maybe that's where the squeaking is coming from then...

I've been trying to capture the misfiring at cold idle on camera but it's eluding me so far. I know it's misfiring though. The whole rig vibrates as the engine emits this deep, drawn out, powerful, earthy, thunderous rumble that makes it sound like the engine is going to explode. I can feel it in the steering wheel, I can feel it on my ass, I can feel it in the stick, I can feel it in the back of the RV - 20 feet from the engine!

Encouraging kids to make their own gear is a great idea! Wouldn't painting it remove any breathability it had though? Either way encouraging the kids to have ownership overing their own stuff I can 100% get behind. Makes them feel a lot more self reliant I'm betting.
 
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Sounds like the opening to Fellowship of the Rings :p

It's either the plugs or wires. If it goes away after its warm, I would probably bet on the plugs, but replacing both shouldn't really break the bank.

That motor from that age, if I remember right, the parts truck was an 84, when idling, it's quite tractor like and shakes everything. A dead miss will be accented on that motor since you will be running on 3 cylinders. I wonder what the condition of the motor mounts are?
 
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Sounds like the opening to Fellowship of the Rings :p

It's either the plugs or wires. If it goes away after its warm, I would probably bet on the plugs, but replacing both shouldn't really break the bank.

Bahahaha yep!

I've got a video of it, now I've just gotta stabilize it. I couldn't capture the noise because of the low frequency, but I was able to capture the engine rocking back and forth when it happens. It just rocks back and forth the same way it does when I turn the engine off (which, by the way, it rocks so hard it looks like the engine will fall out of the fucking vehicle) Here's the weird thing, now it's doing it only after I disengage the cold idle choke mechanism. But it will still do it when revved up, as long as the choke mechanism is off. Just waiting to get paid tomorrow so I can pickup all the shit I need.
 

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Oooh, check the vacuum hoses. You might have a leaker, and that would explain the whistle sounds at high revs.

A can of WD-40 can help with finding them, but the best is listening for air getting sucked in anywhere not right down the carb throat.
 

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Oooh, check the vacuum hoses. You might have a leaker, and that would explain the whistle sounds at high revs.

A can of WD-40 can help with finding them, but the best is listening for air getting sucked in anywhere not right down the carb throat.

Yeah I've got my vacuum diagram in my service manual, and I'm gonna go through the vacuum system. The High Altitude vacuum control unit for the carb isn't hooked up to anything either...



Here's a way better video
 
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Oooh, check the vacuum hoses. You might have a leaker, and that would explain the whistle sounds at high revs.

A can of WD-40 can help with finding them, but the best is listening for air getting sucked in anywhere not right down the carb throat.

I pulled the air filter and went through it with my vacuum diagram. All I can say is that every hose needs to be replaced because pretty much all of them are leaking.
 

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Honestly, doesn't sound too bad. Probably an exhaust leak, a vacuum leak or two. The change in rpm when you are pressing on the brake is from the brake booster recharging. It's probably a bit weak with any vacuum leaks.

The valves are wanting adjusting.

But again overall, that's pretty much the tractor engine sound those old trucks have. Lots of torque for a 4 cylinder and definitely a rattle box. If you know anyone with an older 2.5L Jeep with the carb or the early injection, it will sound very similar.



Looks like a good tutorial on adjusting the valves. I used to do this all the time on my Volkies and early Hyundais. I prefer to adjust the valves closed like they show in the video.



Is a video of an LC built engine running open headers, but you can hear how every cylinder hits pretty hard. I would guess your valves are really loose and have not been adjusted ever.
 

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Listened to your video again, and, honestly, I would do the regular maintenance items (plugs, cap, rotor, wires, filters, adjust the valves, adjust the carb, replace the hoses) and give her hell. I really think that after you nail down all the stuff that hasn't been done in 20 years, you are going to have a really solid little truck there.

If you want to swing up for the next warm weekend to have someone look over your shoulder, there's a spot here for you. Daily highs are near 50 every day for the rest of the month if you believe Accuweather.

Do you have any interest in hot glass? I know a artist or two in the area. Not so in touch with the blacksmiths though for hot iron.
 
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Honestly, doesn't sound too bad. Probably an exhaust leak, a vacuum leak or two. The change in rpm when you are pressing on the brake is from the brake booster recharging. It's probably a bit weak with any vacuum leaks.

The valves are wanting adjusting.

But again overall, that's pretty much the tractor engine sound those old trucks have. Lots of torque for a 4 cylinder and definitely a rattle box. If you know anyone with an older 2.5L Jeep with the carb or the early injection, it will sound very similar.



Looks like a good tutorial on adjusting the valves. I used to do this all the time on my Volkies and early Hyundais. I prefer to adjust the valves closed like they show in the video.



Is a video of an LC built engine running open headers, but you can hear how every cylinder hits pretty hard. I would guess your valves are really loose and have not been adjusted ever.


You're like the dad I never had. I'll adjust the valves when I do the plugs/cap/rotor/wires/hoses after I get paid tomorrow. What kind of VWs did you have?

Listened to your video again, and, honestly, I would do the regular maintenance items (plugs, cap, rotor, wires, filters, adjust the valves, adjust the carb, replace the hoses) and give her hell. I really think that after you nail down all the stuff that hasn't been done in 20 years, you are going to have a really solid little truck there.

If you want to swing up for the next warm weekend to have someone look over your shoulder, there's a spot here for you. Daily highs are near 50 every day for the rest of the month if you believe Accuweather.

Do you have any interest in hot glass? I know a artist or two in the area. Not so in touch with the blacksmiths though for hot iron.

The plot thickens! I ran into a 22R/E expert on the internet and he said the same thing: the valves need to be adjusted. But he also told me to take the engine out and pressure wash it, and he said that having the valves adjusted would "buy me time until a rebuild". Mysterious.

Oil pan gasket, timing chain and possibly rear main seal need to be replaced, and for the rear main seal and oil pan (without dropping the front differential) the engine's gotta come out. It's probably also going to develop more leaks if I wash the engine and don't replace the gasket on the block where all that oil is built up. Also I don't want to wash it by myself, 'cause I might hydrolock it by accident. Baby steps where complete catastrophe is possible.

Also, I think I found the source of the misfiring. This thing that I thought used to be the cruise control, is actually the high altitude control system, and it's totally disconnected, which richens out the fuel mixture like crazy, advances the timing by 6 degrees, and is creating a vacuum leak on the carb. I'm gonna hook it all up tomorrow.

hac-schematic-jpg.316552.jpg


I'll swing up there when the weather looks good and the stars align :) Is it okay if my partner comes too? She likes working on the engine and wants to learn too. PM me your address/phone # and beer of choice (if you drink; I don't except for a beer here and there... except at the jambo) and also your favorite meal. I'll toot my own horn and say I'm a pretty good cook.

I certainly hope it will all be in good shape. I always try to plan for the worst so I don't have to worry about it though - If it dies on the stand, is there a good machine shop near you? If it had to be rebuilt, I would have the money for it, but I would also be in your driveway for about 2 weeks (I figure max 4 days for parts express shipping, 1 day to remove and 2 days to drop in, 1 week for the machine shop) which you might not be cool with. In any case though I think I'd have to really fuck up to kill it. 22Rs do take some really brutal neglect and keep going.

I do have an interest in hot glass! I don't know anything about it aside from what I've picked up seeing other people do it - but it's super awesome, haha!
 
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DrewSTNY

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That was no expert in my opinion. Adjusting valves are part of regular maintenance and if they have never been done, then they are going to be way out. However, they may have had a modicum of truth in their statement in that if the valves have been neglected for years, then they will need to be re-ground because the seats could be messed up, but that would more likely be from tight valves, not loose ones. I would do the adjustment and see how she reacts to having someone love on her.

Again, saying that performing regular maintenance will only delay the inevitable is just stating the obvious. Eventually, that motor will need to have a good rebuild, but it should go at least another 80k before that.

Spraying the motor down with a good engine degreaser and pressure washing that off is a good idea though. Just make sure to put a bag around the distributor. You will probably have to hose the wires down with WD-40 afterward to get her to run smooth until the water is driven out.

Yes, the engine has to come out to do the rear main. That's a good time to replace the clutch too.

You might not be able to do the oil pan gasket with the engine installed depending on how close it is mounted to the front cross member. Could try loosening the motor from the engine mounts and lifting it with a hoist to get clearance.

There are a few shops around, I haven't have to do much engine work, but I know a few guys that should be able to hook us up with someone good and cheap. I know at least one guy that used to work for beer, but I don't know if he is still taking that form of payment.

Of course your partner is more than welcome to join you! We can hangout and swap stories. I like a good bourbon or scotch over beer, if that's OK. There's a brewery around the corner we can try out and there is a distillery in town that I have been itching to go visit. I have taste tested some of the products from both, but have not gone to their store fronts. I don't drink much unless I am at the farm working crops, it's part of the therapy. I go up there to escape my real job, or maybe working at the farm is my real job and I just work as an enginerd to pay the bills?
 

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Hey I don't have time for a fully reply because I'm working on the RV and also have to get a million other things done, but I pulled the spark plugs and all I can say is... autoignition, and EXTREME carbon buildup, so bad that it stripped the threads.

I will reply to you and update with pictures and details later.
 

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Hey I don't have time for a fully reply because I'm working on the RV and also have to get a million other things done, but I pulled the spark plugs and all I can say is... autoignition, and EXTREME carbon buildup, so bad that it stripped the threads.

I will reply to you and update with pictures and details later.

Oh, man. That sucks. Sorry. Did any of them come out without taking the threads with them?

Pix will be good. At least we can have a look and see what kind of story they are telling.
 
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Oh, man. That sucks. Sorry. Did any of them come out without taking the threads with them?

Pix will be good. At least we can have a look and see what kind of story they are telling.

I did successfully replace them, but it took 3 hours of finagling them, next time (if there is a next time) they'll have to be helicoiled. Unfortunately, I got so distracted by having to force them in that I left them at the factory gap, which is 0.036", when it should be 0.032"

Here's one picture to start. They all look like this:

g7Mynfr.jpg


Looks like detonation to me but I also don't know what I'm talking about
 
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The threads on the spark plugs are fine, but I can promise you that the threads on the engine are wrecked. That's also after I cleaned them up a little bit with a wire brush out of curiosity.
 
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Not sure about the second one. The first looks like it was running lean for sure, so ya, ping city. Second one....Mmm rings getting iffy?

If they all look similar to the first, I would say fixing the vacuum leaks may take care of the build up. They should be a bit more brown. We can stick some helicoils in them while you're here if you want.
 
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Not sure about the second one. The first looks like it was running lean for sure, so ya, ping city. Second one....Mmm rings getting iffy?

If they all look similar to the first, I would say fixing the vacuum leaks may take care of the build up. They should be a bit more brown. We can stick some helicoils in them while you're here if you want.

Ah. I looked at my service manual for reference, it showed lean as being a smooth white and autoignition as being that corroded, crusty white. I guess it's all up in the air since they probably haven't been changed in a couple of decades anyway. Is the manual wrong though?

I got some of the hosing I need to fix the vacuum leaks. I'm stopping for tonight. Tomorrow it will be nice and warm, 74, so I'll drive her down the street to the auto parts store, fix the vacuum leaks and adjust the valves. I had to put the distributor cap and rotor on order so I'll be doing that while I'm parked there too. I'm glad your analysis isn't as doom and gloom as my initial diagnosis was.
 

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Pre-detonation can do all kinds of things to the plug, but the classic is having the ground burned away and the end of the plug just about destroyed.

Here's a good picture of what I was always taught:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/reading_spark_plugs.jpg

And here's another good one that has a lot of detail:

http://bustekhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Spark-Plug-Condition-Chart-1.png

This one is probably the best I have seen the the range of conditions.

To me, it looks like you have a lot a ash deposits which can be weak valve guide seals, but I would run the new set of plugs for a bit then check to see the condition of the plugs before jumping to any conclusions.
 

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That was no expert in my opinion. Adjusting valves are part of regular maintenance and if they have never been done, then they are going to be way out. However, they may have had a modicum of truth in their statement in that if the valves have been neglected for years, then they will need to be re-ground because the seats could be messed up, but that would more likely be from tight valves, not loose ones. I would do the adjustment and see how she reacts to having someone love on her.

Again, saying that performing regular maintenance will only delay the inevitable is just stating the obvious. Eventually, that motor will need to have a good rebuild, but it should go at least another 80k before that.

Spraying the motor down with a good engine degreaser and pressure washing that off is a good idea though. Just make sure to put a bag around the distributor. You will probably have to hose the wires down with WD-40 afterward to get her to run smooth until the water is driven out.

Yes, the engine has to come out to do the rear main. That's a good time to replace the clutch too.

You might not be able to do the oil pan gasket with the engine installed depending on how close it is mounted to the front cross member. Could try loosening the motor from the engine mounts and lifting it with a hoist to get clearance.

There are a few shops around, I haven't have to do much engine work, but I know a few guys that should be able to hook us up with someone good and cheap. I know at least one guy that used to work for beer, but I don't know if he is still taking that form of payment.

Of course your partner is more than welcome to join you! We can hangout and swap stories. I like a good bourbon or scotch over beer, if that's OK. There's a brewery around the corner we can try out and there is a distillery in town that I have been itching to go visit. I have taste tested some of the products from both, but have not gone to their store fronts. I don't drink much unless I am at the farm working crops, it's part of the therapy. I go up there to escape my real job, or maybe working at the farm is my real job and I just work as an enginerd to pay the bills?

That's just my aspie sensibilities. And it's kinda funny that I didn't realize that at first. What he was saying was basically "a good way to damage the engine is by running it."

So take the carb and battery off, put a bag around the distributor, and pressure wash it. I'm immensely happy about not having to deal with sensors and sensitive electronics on this old engine. Should I cover the starter too?

If we were going to drop the engine out anyway, how much extra time would it take to replace the clutch, do a ring job, replace any burnt valves and check clearances? Maybe even polish the crank, but I don't know how involved any of this is. My guess is that with 112k the cylinders only need to be honed and it doesn't need professional machining, right?

While sending the engine off to a machine shop and having it rebuilt would be great peace of mind, I've read around and it seems the turnaround would be months, and I called a shop today and they quoted me a range of $1300-2600 which is pretty 'ouch' compared to the cost of rings, a couple of valves, gasket set etc, plus some good food, good scotch and labor :) But then, I don't know if that's something that can be banged out in an afternoon, or if it's such a meticulous process that it would take a week to do. I watched a machinist do his thing on youtube last night and saw him play with 0.1mm clearances on thrust washers. That was a racing engine though, for a car probably designed to hit >150mph.

Pre-detonation can do all kinds of things to the plug, but the classic is having the ground burned away and the end of the plug just about destroyed.

Here's a good picture of what I was always taught:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/reading_spark_plugs.jpg

And here's another good one that has a lot of detail:

http://bustekhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Spark-Plug-Condition-Chart-1.png

This one is probably the best I have seen the the range of conditions.

To me, it looks like you have a lot a ash deposits which can be weak valve guide seals, but I would run the new set of plugs for a bit then check to see the condition of the plugs before jumping to any conclusions.

Wow, so I guess, like everything else I've discovered about engines, it's much more complicated than it appears. That diagram is completely different from my manual, which shows detonation as that corroded white ashy look, but, obviously, I definitely trust you.

Hopefully they won't come out so lean after I fix the vacuum leaks & HAC lean mixture/timing advance.

I'm just going to rip the plugs back out and fix the gap, then chase them and pray they don't need to be coiled yet. Not gapping them was probably the dumbest mistake I've made in a while. I was also putting off the compression and leakdown test until after I replaced everything, then failed to realize that would be hard to do with damaged threads. So I'll do that then too.

I'll update tomorrow after I get all the work done! I'm very excited about it.
 
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