EU Referendum - what it might mean for travellers? (1 Viewer)

landpirate

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So I know a fair chunk of people on here are over the way in the USA but a lot of you like coming over to The UK and the rest of Europe on your travels.

As some or none of you may be aware yesterday the UK voted on whether we wanted to remain or leave the European Union and become independent from the rules that go with being in the union.

Anyway some utter fucktards somewhere voted to leave... The point I'm trying to make is in the coming months this could have a real impact on non-UK residents wanting to travel to The UK and UK residents travelling from The UK to other European countries. The UK now basically want to close their borders. Now this doesn't mean you can't come on a holiday here but it might mess up any attempts to get longer stay visas and they're talking about bringing in a points system much like Australia has.

Now this might all be scare mongering, I don't know and it's really days and I'm definitely no expert. But if you plan to come to the UK them I'd do a lot of reading first and see if the rules have changed.

In the meantime I'm here on Prison Island, plotting how long I've got before I'm locked out of Europe!
 
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warlo

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When it comes to travelers, maybe (just maybe) this whole thing affect us those who travel around Schengen (Border-less EU countries). But that is not for sure. One argument used by the people who ran against Brexit was that EU meant Schengen territory. That is not entirely truth. Of course the European Union ended up taking care of it, legislating about it and regulating schengen, but that doesnt mean that no EU means no Schengen. It might come as part of a nationalist independence package where people wanna just isolate like most countries in the world and be totally in control of inmigration and policy, but schengen is not something that was part of the brexit package so far.

Anyways, I do see that the people pushing for brexit might be the kind that also want to make strict borders (not like england didn't had a slightly different and definitevely tighter border controls already..) so in a way, later on, you might be right to fear for brexit affecting travelers.

Here are some extracts from wikipedia regarding schengen:

Twenty-two of the twenty-eight European Union (EU) member states participate in the Schengen Area. Of the six EU members that do not form part of the Schengen Area, four – Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, and Romania – are legally obliged and wish to join the area, while the other two – the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom – maintain opt-outs. All four European Free Trade Association (EFTA) member states – Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland – have signed agreements on association with the Schengen Agreement, even though they are outside the EU. In addition, three European microstatesMonaco, San Marino, and Vatican City – can be considered de facto participants.

So, as you can see, EU members not necessarily belong to Schengen territory as well as non EU members belonging to it. Some of them fully agree with Schengen rules, some do it so partially.

Here is some more wikipedia magic to rule out the EU's role as the reason for Schengen:

The Schengen Agreement and the Schengen Convention
The Schengen Area originally had its legal basis outside the then European Economic Community, having been established by a sub-set of member states of the Community using two international agreements:

  • The 1985 Schengen Agreement – Agreement between the Governments of the States of the Benelux Economic Union, the Federal Republic of Germany and the French Republic on the gradual abolition of checks at their common borders.
  • The 1990 Schengen Convention – Convention implementing the Schengen Agreement of 14 June 1985 between the Governments of the States of the Benelux Economic Union, the Federal Republic of Germany and the French Republic on the gradual abolition of checks at their common borders.
On being incorporated into the main body of European Union law by the Amsterdam Treaty, the Schengen Agreement and Convention were published in the Official Journal of the European Communities by a decision of the Council of Ministers.[224] As a result, the Agreement and Convention can be amended by regulations.


Now that all this was said (and not ruling out that maybe, just maybe, schengen will go next on the british list of lets get out of that). I have to say that im not sure that it was such a bad idea to leave the EU. To get it on perspective, lets remember Greece. Quite recently, Greeks elected a radical left wing party that not only promised but seemed to be really on taking down banking power structures over their country as well as political and business corruption. They had a good plan, it was all transparent and people knew which where the steps, as well as the risks involved. Lots of people (in democratic terms: the majority of the population) was very hopeful and there was some kind of magic in the air, the kind of magic that you feel when somehow, some politicians break the standards and behave differently, when you see some revolutionary moves being implemented with steady hand and conviction.

And what happened?

A direct message from Brussels (European Union's capital and where the EU parliament decides for the whole union). It said: "Hey, dont forget you are in the EU, and its not like you can do such things if we dont agree" (of course that was not the language, but was the message, im trying to find the guardian article about it but cant find it right now)

So what does that mean?

It basically means that while belonging to the EU, countries dont have autonomy, their democracy is a joke. being that already around the world, but particularly while belonging to a union that leans towards banks and business and only allows a bit of socialism not to look too much like the US.

Greece was a great example of why countries should leave the EU. It showed that there is no possible change, real change while belonging to the EU. EU has its plans and strategy, and everything seems legit until some member state elects a party that has different plans, and there you realize that joining the EU was nothing but handing out your autonomy as a country to a higher power (namely, Germany)

I know that the UK might not be showing sings of any revolutionary left party so that we can all be happy that they left. Quite the contrary, it seems like UK might be shifting more and more towards a nationalist right wing craze, and that sucks. But on the bright side, that's pretty much the direction the whole EU is pointing towards anyways, with a much stronger capacity of blocking changes in other directions. So while UK and other EUxit countries might be getting scaryly nationalistic, I rather have a bunch of scary countries with a better chance of real positive change, than a huge conglomerate of countries that are heavily supporting banks and capitalism and dont give even the slight hope for positive change.
 

highwayman

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Neo liberal Global Capitalism is the greatest EVIL! The idea of the EU was failed from the start. If anyone knows has read any history they will see how just decades ago many of these individual sovereign nations brought the world to war twice. This doesnt include how their empires colonized & exploited people all across the globe in the name of power & profit. Then all of the sudden in the name of economics they decide that they are just 1 big happy family, yeah right!. The reality is that many of these countries have been enemies long before they were business partners, now they share the same currency, open borders etc. Some still view themselves as superpowers who are definitely the haves in the EU versus others who are the have nots with France & Germany preying on their weaker allies. Look at the situation in Greece. Im glad this is happening & hopefully this leads to the entire collapse of the EU.

I think its a long time coming!

Heres a good article on the subject.

http://www.alternet.org/world/eu-neoliberal-nightmare
 
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highwayman

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From a Traveling point of view , only time will tell how things evolve in regards to citizenship, visas, employment, immigration, trade & education. I do feel your pain @landpirate .

But, I also think that the EU kept together is more of an overall threat to Democracy.

 
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Matt Derrick

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i haven't read anything specfic to what @warlo was saying, but i hope that's true that they (brexit and schengen) are separate things. if they aren't for some reason, i saw a news story today about how the UK has 2 years to figure out their trade agreements, so maybe we still have time to take a few trips over before things tighten down.
 

Mankini

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Fufu. Borders are so arbitrary, anyway. Landpirate, and everyone else, Whitehall is making a HUGE deal out of this. Why? Because a faded empire needs to maintain its current relevance.

Britannia: We're Relevant, Damn you! Watch us pull out of your bloody union! Now. See? We're relevant. ........

Europe: Oh. [ahem]

I love the Isles, and its people, as much as i love my own. But I believe in Separatism, whether its Celts, or Cornish, or Scots, or Welshmen, or Levellers. England, like the US, has an infestation of oligarchs and plutocrats. Until we boot these, neither country will self actualize.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Revolt
 
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Mankini

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So I know a fair chunk of people on here are over the way in the USA but a lot of you like coming over to The UK and the rest of Europe on your travels.

As some or none of you may be aware yesterday the UK voted on whether we wanted to remain or leave the European Union and become independent from the rules that go with being in the union.

Anyway some utter fucktards somewhere voted to leave... The point I'm trying to make is in the coming months this could have a real impact on non-UK residents wanting to travel to The UK and UK residents travelling from The UK to other European countries. The UK now basically want to close their borders. Now this doesn't mean you can't come on a holiday here but it might mess up any attempts to get longer stay visas and they're talking about bringing in a points system much like Australia has.

Now this might all be scare mongering, I don't know and it's really days and I'm definitely no expert. But if you plan to come to the UK them I'd do a lot of reading first and see if the rules have changed.

In the meantime I'm here on Prison Island, plotting how long I've got before I'm locked out of Europe!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers
 

kecleon

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I renounced my UK citizenship a while ago because I want nothing to do with it.

They didn't vote to leave for good reason. Whole country has been brainwashed into blaming everything that's wrong with it on Europe/immigrants by the super rich and a decrepit australian cunt who's potentially the actual devil.

I'm glad I'll have less of a link to it but sorry for some of the people who'll be stuck there dealing with the ramifications of getting rid of the only thing left that kept it from going off the deep end.
 

troublefunk

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Jul 7, 2014
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Chester, United Kingdom
I read up about doing that last year,obviously couldn't as i'd be royally f... myself over as i still live in the angry divided little place ;)
I'm telling you a big proportion voted out as they were loving the lie's that an out vote will mean more cash for our health service and an end to immigration....24hrs later and the leading out campaigner's have already retracted those statement's...what a fuggin surprise eh?

Travel may be a pain in the arse in coming year's but this vote sure isnt goin to mean were all locked in/out...i've been Romania and needed a visa in 1990s,a minor pain but i got it,went and had fun.
 
E

etpyh

I deleted myself
and not ruling out that maybe, just maybe, schengen will go next on the british list of lets get out of that
They can't really get out of that, because they are not in it to start with?
UK had their own border policies anyways. I think the Brexit will only become a problem for those who want to stay long term in the uk. I don't expect it to be hard to get a 90 days visa or something if you are from the EU or US.
I wonder about the economic consequences though.
I am also a bit surprised that most of you seem to want to get even more countries out of the EU. I have to admit that I am not really well informed on this subject, but I have the intuition, that the EU has more going for it than against it. I mean the overregulation can suck, but in return you can move, and work, wherever you like within the EU.
 

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