dig on some clawhammer banjo!

[absurdtoast]

Old Man Luedecke...some of the best clawhammer banjo I've heard.
If ya like banjo or music....give it a listen!

 

[nellie g]

dude, you realy need to get south of the canadian boarder if you want to hear, good banjo pickin. better yet south of the mason-dixon line. try some fred cockerham , kyle creed, kirk sutphin or even mark olitzky if you wana hear some good banjo from the "cheezy" north. hope you find some good o.t. banjo music before you fall into the trap of cheezzzzzyyy northern crap. these guys should get you started

 

[Deleted member 20]

I dont know guys. Too each his own but when I think banjo I automatically think 4 string irish tenor(cdae/gdae). My musical influences are the Dropkick Murphys, Flogging Molly, Pogues & prior to that trad irish/celtic music. There is actually some great Irish banjo players on the east coast of Canada, unsure if most 5 string guys can compete with the southeners though.

 

[nellie g]

These are different instruments, like the fiddle and the violin . But all I know is, you can hear authentic music, and you can hear when it's just some Yankee with a ________ trying to sound Authentic.

 

[absurdtoast]

haha I'm sure if you are jokin or just stupid. I love banjo music...I was just sharing some good banjo music....in particular clawhammer stuff....had no idea being from Canada impacted how well you play the banjo. Also...do people actually say "cheezy north" ahahah

As for good banjo....Roscoe Holcomb, Clarence Tom Ashley, Chubby Parker n his old time banjo, Dock Boggs, Memphis Jug Band, Cannon Jug Stompers, Charlie Poole, Earl Scruggs (RIP), Pete MOTHERFUCKIN Seeger (FROM NEW YORK OF ALL PLACES) yet one of the best banjo players, Doc Watson, Hobart Smith, Jack Kelly and His South Memphis Jug Band, Mississippi Sheiks, The Skillet Lickers...etc etc....don't you worry, I know my way around, as you put it, "AUTHENTIC", old time music. You want real old time check out the anthology of American folk music.

I think we have an Old time music thread just for that...you can check it out......I merely posted this thread to show some newer clawhammer banjo...that is quite enjoyable...that GOD FORBID come from somewhere other than the south (even though I had no idea he was Canadian before I posted this)...I'm not sure if I ever claimed this to be authentic old time music.

Anyway...bullshit elitist arguments about what is truly authentic and what isn't....is seriously fuckin lame. YOU AIN'T A TRUE BANJER PLAYER UNLESS UR BLACK! you just look like a bunch of white boys mimicking jug band music with your minstrel shows. see....that ol southern old timey music ain't real authentic as the banjo was integrated into "white" culture through minstrel shows and blackface, where whites attempted to mimic the styles and songs of blacks. I'm not sure we wanna get into some kind of discussion about authentic and inauthentic clawhammer banjo playin.

Anyway....but all I know is, you can hear authentic music, and you can hear when its just some white boy with a banjer tryin to mimic tradition African musical styles (jug band music, blues, jazz, etc.).

 

[Deleted member 20]

 

[nellie g]

Wow , somebody's a little sensative about a little friendly critque. If you like Pete m.f.'n Seeger or old man honkie , that's fine. I just can't hear Any honesty in there music. Just My opinion dude . I got nothin to prove to you, I sure as hell wouldn't get my cargo pants in a bunch over your musical opinion.

 

[absurdtoast]

sorry if I came across a little sensitive (I'd say Im a bit passionate about this kind of music)...you came across as a bit of an elitist asshole...this is part of the problem with internet forums vs. real life...I'm sure we'd have a swell conversation in real life.

No hard feelings. I got no problem if ya don't like the music...not gonna make you admit its good or whatever, that's your opinion.

Ethnomusicology fascinates me and so does the history and transformation of Appalachian music, old time, old blues, jazz, ragtime, banjo, jug bands...I find it all interesting. I think with a little research you might find that your criticism...that its somehow not authentic...or honest (???) is misguided....just historically speaking. Actually to be honest...I have no idea what your criticism even is.

I won't loss any sleep over it, but I'm always up for a friendly discussion...you seem to have not made any valid point besides "its not authentic cause it ain't from the South, damn yankees..or I know what sounds honest and what doesn't and this doesn't sound honest?" but if ya wish to continue...I'm up for it. Seems like we both like similar music anyway.

 

[venusinpisces]

haha I'm sure if you are jokin or just stupid.
Anyway....but all I know is, you can hear authentic music, and you can hear when its just some white boy with a banjer tryin to mimic tradition African musical styles (jug band music, blues, jazz, etc.).

No, actually he is an extremely talented player who is being more modest than you realize. I heard him play one time at a party in Asheville and, from what my untrained ears could tell, he could be a professional musician if inclined to do so. As for your point that old time banjo is strictly African in origins, that statement is very obviously only an incomplete history since there are many similarities between old time and traditional Irish/European music, as Highwayman pointed out above.

Regarding Northern "old time" music, I can tell an immediate difference between the videos you posted and the artists that Nellie mentioned. It's fine if you like it but that stuff isn't authentic. It kind of reminds me of the whole "alt country" thing, which is like nails on a chalkboard to me since I prefer the traditional country I grew up with. But to each his own, I guess. I'm not trying to be a music snob but there is something to be said for upholding tradition, as long as that tradition is worthwhile. Earl Scruggs is great though.

 

[absurdtoast]

That was a joke..about the "strictly" African origins.
I'm sure this guy rules...no slight against his musical capabilities.

For the record...I never claimed this music to be authentic old time music...so I don't even get where that's coming from. I think it was him who came here saying, well this stuff is northern crap and ain't authentic!!!! nobody is arguing that it is authentic.

I was merely pointing out that any argument that begins with "This ain't authentic!!!!! or traditional!!!!" is just silly....just from looking at it from a historical sense. As you can just take it back a step further..."oh yea well that ain't real old time music...I only listen jug band plantation music...that's the TRUE authentic jug band music. If its not played by slaves well then it ain't jug band music" see...that's just silly.
It's like saying the only TRUE banjo players are in West Africa...that's just stupid.

I'm all up for this discussion but you have your own definition of what authentic and traditional is...and that's not how music works or develops. Taking the banjo (African instrument) and making it appeal to white audiences through minstrel shows and blackface, and applying old English ballads is anything but "traditional"...I'm sure at the time there were people like you saying NO NO what are you doing!!! this isn't traditional European musical styles!!!!!

ragtime is traditional...those hot jazz players aren't authentic....no no these white jazz players aren't traditional....they are ruining the authentic hot jazz music....its just a silly way to view music...close minded and so far removed from the reality of musical developments.

Just enjoy good music?

 

[venusinpisces]

For the record...I never claimed this music to be authentic old time music...so I don't even get where that's coming from. I think it was him who came here saying, well this stuff is northern crap and ain't authentic!!!! nobody is arguing that it is authentic.

Actually, that is exactly what you claimed in post #8. Allow me to quote it for you: "I think with a little research you might find that your criticism...that its somehow not authentic...or honest (???) is misguided....just historically speaking."

And personally, I don't mind if people combine contemporary styles with traditional music, as long as it's tastefully done in a way that honors tradition. But unfortunately, a lot of country or old time music made by Northerners simply cannot be described that way.

 

[absurdtoast]

hahhah you took the quote out of context. I never once claimed this guy represents Old time music....I didn't come here parading this as authentic old time music. That quote I was referring to musical development, if you research ethnomusicology you realize that the lines between what is authentic and inauthentic are blurred. Look at how these genres develop..there is nothing..nothing at all traditional about them....so with a little research you will find your traditionalist view doesn't hold up against the historical facts of how the genres were formed.

Again..there is even a thread specifically just on old time music....this isn't it.

 

[joaquim33]

No, actually he is an extremely talented player who is being more modest than you realize. I heard him play one time at a party in Asheville and, from what my untrained ears could tell, he could be a professional musician if inclined to do so. As for your point that old time banjo is strictly African in origins, that statement is very obviously only an incomplete history since there are many similarities between old time and traditional Irish/European music, as Highwayman pointed out above.

Regarding Northern "old time" music, I can tell an immediate difference between the videos you posted and the artists that Nellie mentioned. It's fine if you like it but that stuff isn't authentic. It kind of reminds me of the whole "alt country" thing, which is like nails on a chalkboard to me since I prefer the traditional country I grew up with. But to each his own, I guess. I'm not trying to be a music snob but there is something to be said for upholding tradition, as long as that tradition is worthwhile. Earl Scruggs is great though.

how do you define authentic? that is an hard word to pin down sometimes.





this guy frank is my new favorite musician. he grew up in central valley CA.

 

[joaquim33]

vermont massachusetts old time!

 

[venusinpisces]

I don't know enough about the genre to be coming up with a definition. All I know is that your average hippie bluegrass/old time is not the real thing and it's easy to tell the difference. Frank Fairfield is pretty impressive. I would definitely trust someone from the Central Valley to do it better than someone from NYC! Ultimately, it's not really about what area you're from as much as whether you can carry on the spirit, since most modern country from the South is also pretty bad (except the Dixie Chicks).

 

[absurdtoast]

damn that rules!!! and ya, totally agree...old time music from New England is very different than deep south old time music...I don't think anyone was arguing that. It's easy to throw around exclusive words like "authentic", "traditional" ,"spirit","honesty"....but not so easy nailing down exactly what you mean, especially if you learn how these genres were formed. Anyway...I'm not endorsing modern country or as you put it hippie bluegrass/old time and trying to pass it off as the "real" thing. So...we are in agreement.

I think that was exactly my point...don't matter where you are from. I'm all for keeping with the spirit...but also for understanding the actual history of the music.

Sleepy Man Banjo Boys...from....New Jersey of all places.....

 

[Deleted member 20]

Those kids are awesome. I do believe thats a Deering goodtime.

 

[joaquim33]

haha the kid reaches up and quickly tunes while he plays. i dont really like this style of banjo playing but still, that is slick. theres a cool documentary called "new england fiddle" you can watch at http://www.folkstreams.net/film,93
made me feel different about playing this genre of music and being a notherner..i guess i realized i dont have to try and copy anyone from the south, there is a longstanding tradition of this music from the north and everywhere for that matter.
frank fairfield pointed out in an interview that most fiddle players recorded in the 20s on 78 rpms where actually from the midwest

 

[venusinpisces]

there is a longstanding tradition of this music from the north and everywhere for that matter.
frank fairfield pointed out in an interview that most fiddle players recorded in the 20s on 78 rpms where actually from the midwest

It seems like what makes the difference is whether or not people are integrated in rural culture, or at least have recent ties to it. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule and sometimes an outsider can step in and capture a sound. But just like a rich white guy sounds funny rapping about thug life in the projects there is something a bit off about hippies playing watered down bluegrass. I'm probably just a snob though. Just about all the musicians in this thread have talent, whether or not it's my style of music. Here is some Earl Scruggs:

 

[absurdtoast]

I regret missing Earl Scruggs playing last summer at the Newport Folk Festival...I don't play the Scruggs style but easily one of my favorite musicians...RIP Earl!